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the big indicator lie

  • #21
  • Jun 16, 2017 7:04pm Jun 16, 2017 7:04pm
Quoting atheer1
Trading is an art rather than a mechanical process...............if so computers can beat humans in trading
My guess is computers are beating humans in trading. Maybe some professional traders could let us know how it is mostly done in the non-retail space.
It takes money to make money.
  • #22
  • Jun 16, 2017 7:32pm Jun 16, 2017 7:32pm
Quoting Harpy
{quote} My guess is computers are beating humans in trading. Maybe some professional traders could let us know how it is mostly done in the non-retail space.
If computers can beat humans.........why humans are hired for trading positions............
atheer1
  • #23
  • Jun 16, 2017 7:42pm Jun 16, 2017 7:42pm
Quoting atheer1
{quote} If computers can beat humans.........why humans are hired for trading positions............
Nothing is ever 100% one thing or another whether it's robots making cars or it's humans making clothes. There is always a mixture of both. If I were to take a guess, I would say there are more trades being executed by robots than by humans. Furthermore, my guess is that their combined net gain is higher than that of humans. Just my opinions
It takes money to make money.
  • #24
  • Jun 16, 2017 8:01pm Jun 16, 2017 8:01pm
Quoting Harpy
{quote} Nothing is ever 100% one thing or another whether it's robots making cars or it's humans making clothes. There is always a mixture of both. If I were to take a guess, I would say there are more trades being executed by robots than by humans. Furthermore, my guess is that their combined net gain is higher than that of humans. Just my opinions
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/us...tronic-trading

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...obot-dominance
atheer1
  • #25
  • Jun 16, 2017 8:10pm Jun 16, 2017 8:10pm
Quoting atheer1
{quote} http://news.efinancialcareers.com/us...tronic-trading https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...obot-dominance
Thanks for the article. I'm really trying not to disagree but that article is pointing out that the firms are just (spending) more on humans than robots.

It's an ambiguous statement and doesn't necessarily imply the number of human traders (or number of placed trades or volume of trades) is increasing over that of robots.

Anyway, I think retail forex traders can beat the pants off of institutional traders any day of the week. We have access to a much more liquid spot market and with the leverage we have, with the competitive broker options we have, we can do much better than the professionals in any finance firm (in terms of percentages, etc.)
It takes money to make money.
  • #26
  • Jun 16, 2017 8:15pm Jun 16, 2017 8:15pm
Quoting Harpy
{quote} Thanks for the article. I'm really trying not to disagree but that article is pointing out that the firms are just (spending) more on humans than robots. It's an ambiguous statement and doesn't necessarily imply the number of human traders (or number of placed trades or volume of trades) is increasing over that of robots. Anyway, I think retail forex traders can beat the pants off of institutional traders any day of the week. We have access to a much more liquid spot market and with the leverage we have, with the competitive broker options...
Yes Harpy.......thanks for your opinion...............2nd article showed % of equity block trades executed through humans
atheer1
  • #27
  • Jun 17, 2017 1:28am Jun 17, 2017 1:28am
Quoting buju
food for thought . . . John was sold a lie. It's a lie so easy to believe. Because it makes so much sense. Near impossible to challenge its logic. And, really it's not a lie, per se. I mean, if you believe in something so much, and then spread this belief to other people, is it a lie? Didn't matter anyway. John believed the lie: - you put indicator a on your chart. - then you put indicator b on your chart. - then you put indicator c on you chart. - if a, b, c (and e, f, g...) are all telling you that the price is gonna go up, then the probability...

again and again and agin and one million times i will say it in full mouth..... Leverage is the answer for the john angry issues..

How and why

ahhh my heart


if the leverage is 1:500 then if john opens one trade by 1 lot
price is going up , then he makes 1 lot = so the real is 500 lots in the market .. Then there will be force to the south equal or more than 10 times your 500 lots ( i expect 5000 to 50,000 ) lots to trigger his stop loss by the guru or his broker or the related banks who can see his trade
wow
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #28
  • Jun 17, 2017 1:51am Jun 17, 2017 1:51am
I enjoyed this little read. So true.
  • #29
  • Jun 17, 2017 1:58am Jun 17, 2017 1:58am
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} again and again and agin and one million times i will say it in full mouth..... Leverage is the answer for the john angry issues.. How and why ahhh my heart if the leverage is 1:500 then if john opens one trade by 1 lot price is going up , then he makes 1 lot = so the real is 500 lots in the market .. Then there will be force to the south equal or more than 10 times your 500 lots ( i expect 5000 to 50,000 ) lots to trigger his stop loss by the guru or his broker or the related banks who can see his trade wow
This is nonsense.

using USD
1 lot = 100,000 face value
leverage 1:500 = need only 200 USD to hold the position.
20 pips = 200 USD
... now if you only have 300 usd in your account guess what will happen (;
  • #30
  • Jun 17, 2017 2:13am Jun 17, 2017 2:13am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} This is nonsense. using USD 1 lot = 100,000 face value leverage 1:500 = need only 200 USD to hold the position. 20 pips = 200 USD ... now if you only have 300 usd in your account guess what will happen (;
DEAR MINGARY

YOU ARE A TEACHER FOR ALL SO I RESPECT YOUR WAY OF ADDING THINGS UP

IT IS NOT AT ALL NONSENSE

BUT LET'S FACE THE TRUTH

ARE YOU GOOD IN MATH, I GUESS SO, SO IF YOU READ MY COMPLETE EXPLINATION HERE, YOU WILL FEEL SORRY THAT WE ARE SPEAKING THE SAME BUT YOU RUSHED IN YOUR JUDGEMENT :
this is martinage used in rollet wheel--- gambling...

I chose black randomly 1 usd
win i go back to 1 usd
if i lose i double my bet 2
if i win i return to zero but if i lose
i use 3 and so on


in forex this is meaning killing your account, do not forget the margin
ok

let me explain more

assume your margin is 2.5 usd for 0.01 lot so for 1 lot as you want to trade then margin is 250 usd so each time you trade in wrong direction you will be out of 250 for each 1 lot to the broker

that is meaning

trial 1 for example 1 lot goes wrong ohh your floating loss is 100 point x 1 lot = 100 us and your margin is 250 then your balance will be less by 350 usd,

second trial, you make another buy by let's say 1 lot ( you are still worried from the direction assuming this is true as we are human ) then another 250 margin will be removed and oh my hear the direction is still wrong down then you will loose another 100 usd and another 100 for the first trade
so

your total margin now is 500 usd and your floating loss is 300 total is 800 usd.....

And so on

you say in the 7th trade for example the price will reverse... Wow

do you know how much your floating loss and your margin will be

ok

simple math ( i did not include the spread in my calculations to make your life easier)

7x250 = 1750 margin removed by the broker form your account

floating loss is equal to the sum of the followings assuming you kept 1 lot trade at which it is full of rudeness :
7x100-100 = valid if you assume that the 7th trade will win 100 usd
6x100
5x100
4x100
3x100
2x100
1x100
0x100 = now trade ( at which it will give you 100 +ve profit )

total floating loss is 600+600+500+400+300+200+100 = 2700 usd

total out of your balance is 2700 + 1750 = 4450 usd ( i did not include the spread in my calculations to make your life easier)

so your account must have at least 7500 usd to protect your trades if you use one pair

come on man try to understand this

SO THIS IS MEANING WIN 100 AND RISKING 4450

RATIO IS 100 : 4450

1:44

SO THIS WILL WIPE OUT YOUR ACCOUNT



LOOK TO THE LEFT SIDE ON YOUR SCREEN NOW

YOU WILL SEE 5 GRID THREADS DEAD

TAKE A SNAP FOTO TOO...

Attached Image
https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...1&d=1497683046


I saw in the you tube b4 few days back another trader is swearing by god that within only 130 usd he can make millions if he is using the hedging hog with the martinage as you did...
But he began with 130 usd and his first lot is 2.58 ...................... I can not understand this, \\ it is useless to trade or to see the wrong acts believed by good people like you and me from such newbie


why to invent the wheel while it was being invented by another one....


I will stop here.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #31
  • Jun 17, 2017 2:33am Jun 17, 2017 2:33am
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} DEAR MINGARY YOU ARE A TEACHER FOR ALL SO I RESPECT YOUR WAY OF ADDING THINGS UP IT IS NOT AT ALL NONSENSE BUT LET'S FACE THE TRUTH ARE YOU GOOD IN MATH, I GUESS SO, SO IF YOU READ MY COMPLETE EXPLINATION HERE, YOU WILL FEEL SORRY THAT WE ARE SPEAKING THE SAME BUT YOU RUSHED IN YOUR JUDGEMENT : this is martinage used in rollet wheel--- gambling... I chose black randomly 1 usd win i go back to 1 usd if i lose i double my bet 2 if i win i return to zero but if i lose i use 3 and so on in forex this is meaning killing your account, do not forget...
I am not a teacher.
My apologies I did not understand you were referring to a martingale scheme.
You are absolutely correct.
  • #32
  • Jun 17, 2017 2:50am Jun 17, 2017 2:50am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I am not a teacher. My apologies I did not understand you were referring to a martingale scheme. You are absolutely correct.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #33
  • Edited 9:07am Jun 17, 2017 6:10am | Edited 9:07am
Some really intelligent posts on this thread. Basically trading is simple assume the direction the market is going will continue, mostly it does. All my indicator does is evaluate what is the potential could be in a reversal against the trend. Most people see a move running and sell or buy paying no regard to the trend or how far the move is extended.

Simply evaluating a market correctly will tell you where to buy or sell. Then having the patience to wait for the trade. Indicators make you pull the handle regardless, hence any edge you had is quickly eroded. Indicators used in the right place will always give wining trades. But you need to figure out when the trades are right as no indicator can do that.

Would just like to add that my forward looking indicator suggests that the SP500 is due for a 600 to 1000 point move to the downside I would expect the down move to occur by the 21/22nd of this month so 20-22nd June 2017.

Just to add that if you use an indicator here rather than blindly trading a sell you actually wait for the signal to occur knowing that the cycle I expected is actually happening. This is what I meant by using an indicator in the right place.

I would also like to see a big push into the cycle up and if I am correct the two price levels I would expect the turn are 2454.50 or 2465.25 cash market o the SP500
  • #34
  • Jun 17, 2017 12:51pm Jun 17, 2017 12:51pm
Quoting JensG
{quote} Depends on the words the salesman used. While I do agree with venividivici that you do not need indicators and the picture SulemanMehmo posted shows a good part of my decision making , I still do not think indicators are a lie. Sure, if the description tells you that it is making decisions for you and you just need to follow what it says it probably was a lie. But that should raise the question why is it an indicator at all, it should be an EA. IMHO indicators are used the wrong way by people who do not understand what they do in the...
Learnt from the best
  • #35
  • Jun 17, 2017 1:13pm Jun 17, 2017 1:13pm
Quoting atheer1
{quote} If computers can beat humans.........why humans are hired for trading positions............
100% agreed
  • #36
  • Jun 17, 2017 1:19pm Jun 17, 2017 1:19pm
Quoting atheer1
{quote} If computers can beat humans.........why humans are hired for trading positions............
computers were invented by humans, most people forget this..so how do they expect them to be smarter than us?
  • #37
  • Jun 17, 2017 1:25pm Jun 17, 2017 1:25pm
Quoting buju
food for thought . . . John was sold a lie. It's a lie so easy to believe. Because it makes so much sense. Near impossible to challenge its logic. And, really it's not a lie, per se. I mean, if you believe in something so much, and then spread this belief to other people, is it a lie? Didn't matter anyway. John believed the lie: - You put indicator A on your chart. - Then you put indicator B on your chart. - Then you put indicator C on you chart. - If A, B, C (and E, F, G...) are ALL telling you that the price is gonna go up, then the probability...

I dont believe !!

John has not found out yet the best indicator?!
Tell John to download covfefe and everything will change.

Covefefe is all John needs.
The funniest, is that nobody takes me seriously.
  • #38
  • Jun 17, 2017 2:19pm Jun 17, 2017 2:19pm
Quoting FairTrader
{quote} I dont believe !! John has not found out yet the best indicator?! Tell John to download covfefe and everything will change. Covefefe is all John needs.
IMHO I wouldn't recommend Covefefe based systems as they're based on drawdown. Coverage based systems are generally positive equity systems.

Also, Covefefe repaints.
It takes money to make money.
  • #39
  • Jun 17, 2017 2:54pm Jun 17, 2017 2:54pm
Quoting Harpy
{quote} IMHO I wouldn't recommend Covefefe based systems as they're based on drawdown. Coverage based systems are generally positive equity systems. Also, Covefefe repaints.
Repaint Bigly.
The funniest, is that nobody takes me seriously.
  • #40
  • Jun 17, 2017 2:59pm Jun 17, 2017 2:59pm
Quoting FairTrader
{quote} Repaint Bigly.
If you try to tell anyone it repaints, they'll just say market is fake and Covefefe doesn't repaint.
It takes money to make money.
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