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5 years and still no strategy

  • #2,341
  • Jun 2, 2017 4:48pm Jun 2, 2017 4:48pm
Quoting kprsa
{quote} Tattoo-worthy. k
Let's get inked together babe, I am a tattoo virgin or I have 12 who knows lol
Read in between the price!!!
  • #2,342
  • Jun 2, 2017 6:56pm Jun 2, 2017 6:56pm
Quoting yousername
{quote} {quote} Oh really. You told me in my own thread to hold my long AUDUSD position because there's 1000 pips to the upside. Where in fact over that day, it went as high as 40 to 50 pips not even close to a 1/10 of 1000 pips But now you say we must not hold a position over night because we should not be an investor.
Huh? I would never say that. Show me where i say that? Holding positions overnight is possibly the worst thing you can do. As a trader. If youre an investor then fine.
ohh that quote there?? That was askin YOU what your risk was after you stated you made 22 pips. Ffs.
I hate people stating they made "pips" it doesnt tell us anything. How many "pips" you risk?
  • #2,343
  • Jun 2, 2017 7:10pm Jun 2, 2017 7:10pm
Quoting calebfx
{quote} Bearish rejection candle, enter at close of that candle, although I would prefer a shorter wick to the low, textbook PA
Ok cool - thought that the green line was pointing at the bullish candle
  • #2,344
  • Jun 2, 2017 7:25pm Jun 2, 2017 7:25pm
Quoting Trader613
All these theories are nice to read, it's like when in car sales you read the latest auto magazines and watch the latest you tube channels hang out on forums chatting about the latest car innovations and car interiors and what have you... ...The market is this the market is that; it moves because of this or because of that. It's all well and good - and would facilitate a first step towards understanding and building something... But unless one has a real edge all of this remains nice theory. And theory only. Always makes my head shake when reading...
Why would you try to keep up with a quant when you can be one step ahead of him and everyone else? Silly guy... not even a quant can think faster than the speed of light.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #2,345
  • Jun 2, 2017 7:48pm Jun 2, 2017 7:48pm
Quoting WolGod
{quote} Huh? I would never say that. Show me where i say that? Holding positions overnight is possibly the worst thing you can do. As a trader. If youre an investor then fine. ohh that quote there?? That was askin YOU what your risk was after you stated you made 22 pips. Ffs. I hate people stating they made "pips" it doesnt tell us anything. How many "pips" you risk?
but you said risking 1000 pips which to me sounds like to not close the trade for 1000 pips or hold it
This is not investment/trading advise. Will not hold accountable for loss
  • #2,346
  • Jun 2, 2017 8:06pm Jun 2, 2017 8:06pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} Traders don't drive price......... FOREX traders often mistakenly think that their combined actions in the CFD market are determining the way a currency pair moves. It is true that they have an impact however we are trading a derivative ( a product that tracks the price of the underlying security) and to understand what drives our CFD prices we must understand what is driving the price of the underlying security, in this case the exchange rate of currencies. The actual exchange rate is decided by the market makers who operate as foreign...
Where does our injected money goes to when we open a position in any derivative market?
This is not investment/trading advise. Will not hold accountable for loss
  • #2,347
  • Jun 2, 2017 8:58pm Jun 2, 2017 8:58pm
Quoting yousername
{quote} Where does our injected money goes to when we open a position in any derivative market?
Exchange traded or OTC?
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #2,348
  • Jun 2, 2017 9:26pm Jun 2, 2017 9:26pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} Exchange traded or OTC?
regular forex trading. I don't know which.
This is not investment/trading advise. Will not hold accountable for loss
  • #2,349
  • Jun 3, 2017 12:08am Jun 3, 2017 12:08am
Awesome thread

Back to the "how the market moves" debate.

I am looking forward for the next "Biscuit in the Basket"

Ecclesiastes 1:9
  • #2,350
  • Jun 3, 2017 8:22am Jun 3, 2017 8:22am
Quoting yousername
{quote} regular forex trading. I don't know which.
The vast majority of retail trades are internalised by the broker and only those who trade in a risky manner or are profitable will have their trades sent to the actual market.
  • #2,351
  • Jun 3, 2017 8:30am Jun 3, 2017 8:30am
Quoting loleno
{quote} The vast majority of retail trades are internalised by the broker and only those who trade in a risky manner or are profitable will have their trades sent to the actual market.
Is this knowledge you heard it from some one else/forum or your feeling or theory or you see it with your own eyes (you your self is a broker's pawn/bishop)?
This is not investment/trading advise. Will not hold accountable for loss
  • #2,352
  • Jun 3, 2017 9:21am Jun 3, 2017 9:21am
Quoting yousername
{quote} regular forex trading. I don't know which.


Hi yn

If you like have a look at the following posts explaining the inner workings of this industry and in a nutshell, as follows:


OTC - Over The Counter trading


Firstly, the word CFD and Brokers offering this kind of derivative, it stands for Contract For Differences, it's a financial paper bet and no actual funds of yours reaches a counter party (CP). The Broker himself however may or may not hedge his risk or net open positions on the spot market.

Next, there are ECN and STP Brokers, with the ECN type Broker's venue you are able to post your Bid and Offer which will then go inside market on the book, or you may hit a TOB (top of book) Bid, or lift a TOB Offer, and depending on the current book size and the size you are looking to clear you may have the ability to make a book sweep for an immediate fill.

With regards to STP - Straight Through Processing: Banks and Institutions offering executable streaming prices, comprised of executable Bids and Offers on a continuing basis, some of which offer very aggressive liquidity with Bids and Offers posted at TOB most of the time, while others trail behind and offer a more conservative price stream. In any case, any price streamer has a contractual prerogative to exercise a 'last look' where in which they may execute their rights in rejecting your trade execution request if they wish to do so. However, one can request a 'no last look price stream', nonetheless you'll find that spreads are by far wider than with the other type of executable liquidity.

For some further reading and overall view of this particular aspect in the industry may I direct you to an earlier post over here.

And for some deeper understanding on the various kinds of liquidity I can point you to over here if you like.

With regards to CP risk settlement and clearing a short post over here.


Centralised Liquidity and Exchange Traded


Your CP and relationship is with the Exchange. Exchange traded Futures Contracts are completely transparent in nature with any executed trades and prices thereof posted immediately to its message stream. The Exchange itself is also governed by an efficient rule book in order to facilitate all market participants with an even and fair handling of their orders.

Apart from individual market participants being able to place Bids and Offers, Market Makers on Exchanges post to both, the sell side and the buy side thus creating price stability.

Apart from the Open Outcry pit trading, which is still done but only on a comparative very small scale, FCMs (Futures Commodity Merchants) and their respective customers are connected via Globex on the CME which is an electronic almost 24h running electronic trading order routing system.

Also worth mentioning are Institutions that buy co-location server space in order to beat market participants - we are talking an arms race over getting information measured in nano seconds. A lot has been debated about this, but the argument goes, that in pit trading you had your locals that also enjoyed having had the privilege of receiving first hand information before any other market participants, so the same goes to market makers these days, the venues just shifted, but the principle of one having an unfair advantage over another remains.

Have a nice weekend everyone and good trading, and come this Monday the same question, the same answer, long or short - lets see.
  • #2,353
  • Jun 3, 2017 10:04am Jun 3, 2017 10:04am
Quoting Trader613
{quote} Hi yn If you like have a look at the following posts explaining the inner workings of this industry and in a nutshell, as follows: OTC - Over The Counter trading Firstly, the word CFD and Brokers offering this kind of derivative, it stands for Contract For Differences, it's a financial paper bet and no actual funds of yours reaches a counter party (CP). The Broker himself however may or may not hedge his risk or net open positions on the spot market. Next, there are ECN and STP Brokers, with the ECN type Broker's venue you are able to post...
Thank you, I appreciate it. Have a great weekend to you too!
This is not investment/trading advise. Will not hold accountable for loss
  • #2,354
  • Edited 1:56pm Jun 3, 2017 11:48am | Edited 1:56pm
leaving this post for another 24 hours....

 

  1. Is there a MT4 broker that allows you to conveniently update the account balance in their demo accounts?
  2. If not, is there a connection between the so called "90% losers" who rely on demo trading for forward testing their strategy?
  3. is there a retail broker who will NOT close ALL positions upon Margin Call?
  4. If not, is there a connection between the so called "90% losers" who cannot calculate pips away from being margin called ?
  5. Why most retail brokers cannot close the trade that is in max loss or profit during margin call? Wont that be a better option for traders to prevent account blowups and for negative balance protection?
  6. Why do traders have to become developers to implement such a simple feature into their trading strategy ?
  7. Why does MT4 cannot display distance in pips from a stop loss or take profit or pending orders?
  8. Why does MT4 cannot allow Tick charts to grow contineously into the past?
  9. Why does MT4 not allow plotting of charts using bid or ask?
  10. Why do 90% traders use MT4?
  11. Why do so many retail traders have so many different GMT Offset?
  12. Is there a connection between 90% losers and the lack of these important features?
  13. why can't be plot equity curve in MT4 statement?
  14. Why do we rely so much on REALIZED profit/loss statistics?
  15. Why does MT4 not calculate PnL in Pips in the account history?
  16. Why does MT4 does not show total commissions paid in account history tab?
  17. Why does MT4 does not show total swap paid in account history tab?
  18. Why is missing from the "Detailed Account Statement" Report in MT4?
  19. Is the measure of profit factor reliable? how about win/loss%?


Hopefully this will push this thread into another treading discussion over the weekend for those really keen to push their current knowledge and understanding to the next level.... still no guarantees we can profit from the market though

Staying in my lane...
  • #2,355
  • Jun 3, 2017 12:04pm Jun 3, 2017 12:04pm
Quoting VEEFX
leaving this post for another 24 hours.... Is there a MT4 broker that allows you to conveniently update the account balance in their demo accounts? If not, is there a connection between the so called "90% losers" who rely on demo trading for forward testing their strategy? is there a retail broker who will NOT close ALL positions upon Margin Call? If not, is there a connection between the so called "90% losers" who cannot calculate pips away from being margin called ? Why most retail brokers cannot close the trade that is in max loss or profit during...
if all these features were available in mt4 , will there be more profitable traders or less losing ones ?
  • #2,356
  • Jun 3, 2017 12:41pm Jun 3, 2017 12:41pm
Quoting VEEFX
leaving this post for another 24 hours.... Is there a MT4 broker that allows you to conveniently update the account balance in their demo accounts? If not, is there a connection between the so called "90% losers" who rely on demo trading for forward testing their strategy? is there a retail broker who will NOT close ALL positions upon Margin Call? If not, is there a connection between the so called "90% losers" who cannot calculate pips away from being margin called ? Why most retail brokers cannot close the trade that is in max loss or profit during...
This is one of those times I wish I was an affiliate.

1. Never had a demo account. Not sure about that.
2. Yes, Oanda will not liquidate all of your positions to my knowledge.
3. Oanda has a real time margin calculator.
4. They don't if they use fxtrade to trade instead of MT4.
5. Oanda allows you to choose your GMT offset.
6. Oanda keeps track of unrealized P and L, and if you set the trade explorer up right, you can really dig into your trades.
7. I do not know why MT4 does not do this, but I do not use them to trade, only for charting.
8. Total swap, now that is a good question.
9. I do not think the profit factor is reliable, never looked at it honestly.
10. Win loss percentage is an absolute joke.

Okay, so I chimed in, lets see what happens!

Quoting metta87
{quote} if all these features were available in mt4 , will there be more profitable traders or less losing ones ?
Maybe, because it would give all the data to make a proper analysis of the risks of trade implementation and management.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,357
  • Jun 3, 2017 3:33pm Jun 3, 2017 3:33pm
Quoting VEEFX
...does MT4 cannot allow Tick charts to grow continuously into the past?

Why does MT4 not allow plotting of charts using bid or ask?

Why do 90% traders use MT4? Why do so many retail traders have so many different GMT Offset? Is there a connection between 90% losers and the lack of these important features?

Hopefully this will push this thread into another treading discussion over the weekend for those really keen to push their current knowledge and understanding to the next level.... still no guarantees we can profit from the market though...

Vee, Sir,

You've hit a nerve there, a big one too that is!

If you were to ask me: ''what is one of the biggest financial frauds that has ever taken place in a certain asset class since the rise of complicated financial derivative product offerings and the execution means thereof..?''

Well, I'd have to say I'd point my finger at the dawn of electronic trading platforms which have made it possible and extremely convenient for executing retail orders in the OTC markets.

This phenomena has exploded into a multi billion dollar industry and only growing stronger each year. And each year new people seem to see the light and jump onto the OTC derivatives financial market bandwagon and grabbing offerings that may come with it, including (much too) dearly paid courses and trading seminars.

This whole development is quite astonishing - to say the least.

MT3 at the very start and MT4 thereafter was created for a mass market with MT4 being at the right place at the right time for people, and even simple housewives with absolute no financial background whatsoever, seemingly wanting to quench their financial interest and curiosity.

What is it that they've heard about in the news, read or saw in a book or movie of those 'big boys' making a lavish lifestyle while daily juggling with the financial markets..?

They wanted in too.

For me personally back in the days, it was CQG's charting and datafeed supplied via a very expensive satellite feed; then came along CMC's Marketmaker platform together with ADSL connections and that was in 1996. It was such a novel then. I remember it so well until today. At the time we had also upgraded our IT with the very new Philips TFT screens and at the same time also gotten rid of those monstrous CRT 'heaters' shall we call them, weren't they just so humongous and heavy, unbelievable!

It just seemed all so perfect. And all is done with a click of a mouse button, go try beating that..!



With specific regards to MT4:


You have really comprehensively listed many, many platform shortcomings, but first why not:

The Good News: (shall we..)

I like MT4's ideas - and I'll come to that as to why I just said 'ideas' but in a moment bear with me please - for two main reasons, and for these two main reasons only:

1. It offers the best freely adjustable Fib tool there is out there - I had even requested Multicharts in trying to do the same; they did me a favour, they'd added some more external user input Fibo levels too, although, not 32 of them like with MT4, but still.

2. The MT4 Crosshair capability is the best bar none. A middle mouse click will get the crosshair on screen all the whilst clicking the left mouse button and dragging it to which one can quickly see the tick/pips range as well as a bar count. This is invaluable because with a quick one click action you can see your profit or stop loss calculation targets in tick. Fast. No need to start having to calculate your ticks range.

The bad news:

As said already before you've really hit the nail on the head with accounting for many platform shortfalls; but for me, the whole approach of basing all of ones charts and trades off of a bid only price chart is bewildering me.

At least in CQG's charting package they give you BidAsk charts, they call them their 'Comprehensive FX charts'.

This can matter a lot if one is looking to trade short time frames especially with regards when having to place stops.

In MT4 prices printed are Bid only as we all know very well.

It is not enough that retail traders operate in an OTC environment, which is dangerous enough as is with all its shortfalls, no, Bid prices only with no last trade prices or charts thereof of course, given the very nature of OTC's product offerings and on top of that the inability to place stops by the means of 'Bid through Ask' and 'Ask through Bid' precaution measures if you will.

Not finished yet, and apart from all that MT4 did not find it important enough to include range charts - very important charts in my humble opinion. Because this kind of chart takes out the time element whilst putting emphasis on price alone, this approach coupled with volume - no, not the tick kind of volume for heavens sake! - okay, okay, tick vol is better than no vol at all, I give you that - (but you still don't get bid vs ask traded vol info, huh..!) can make one of a fine approach to analyse and being able to handle the markets.

And my recommendation, on a side note that is, try it, get rid of ALL of your placed indicators and bid charts as well, get yourself a proper Exchange supplied data feed and start (yet fresh again) from there.



The Solution:

Remember when I said about the good 'ideas' MT4 had implemented, well, what I mean by that is this, here it goes:

If you want something done, you really need to do it yourself. You can only ever ask so much of a platform provider or literally beg them to implement some shortcomings, they'll go to a certain length and extent and then it stops once their line of diminishing returns has been crossed.

Thus,

I had created my very own 'platform package' if you will.

What I did is, I had gutted MT4 out completely and programed an API bridging my 'empty shell MT4' to my broker's data feed. And why did I go to such an extent you may wonder?

I did it for the following reasons:

- I can create any time frame chart I like
- I can create any chart type I like, including: Bid, Ask, BidAsk and Last, including any range charts
- I have horizontal price lines, showing me Bid, Ask and Last (last being the maroon price line, bid & ask being the two black price lines)
- My platform gives me a RAW price data feed which is unfiltered and unlike most if not all of the other platforms out there throttling price updates to a 100ms

So when I say 'ideas', I took MT4's excellent GUI user friendliness and tailored it to my very own needs and purpose.

Should you do the same? Well, I know of others who seem perfectly happy with their Ninjatrader, Multicharts, Sierra etc. etc. platforms, you might like them too, give them a go and see what you think.

It's just as they say, good habits may die hard, and in my case, my personal MT4 lives on with me to eternity...


PS: a screenshot I attach herewith for you to see if you like; to the right you can see my execution DOM, data feed is Rithmic's and you can also see the API GUI I had created bridging MT4 to Rithmics or IQFeed data feeds of my choice and liking.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: MT4 Bridge.jpg Size: 474 KB
  • #2,358
  • Jun 3, 2017 8:29pm Jun 3, 2017 8:29pm
Quoting VEEFX;
Awesome response Trader613. I feel previledged to run into your profile. Thanks for your insight. You solution is exactly the next step I want to take in a years timeframe. With a strong 25+ years of background in technology...

...you gave me hope to not discard my 2 yrs of painstaking effort to learn mql and implement my current strategy. Obviously, I have a very strong believe that retail spot FX otc markets is designed for 99% to lose. There is no levelled play field to consistently have a strategy work for more than a year or two. I believe I have something worthwhile that will last thru the rest of time for my kids and grand kids...

...why broker feed in retail is not the same across brokers and how I can leverage a universal broker independent, time zone independent, location independent price feed to bring consistency in my strategy. My strategy relies on EVERYTHING TO BE UNIVERSAL AND NEUTRAL to survive till the end of time!!!

...One thing I must admit I don't like is that you are still dependant and vulnerable to updates and continued support from Metaquotes which I don't like.

Thank you very much! I can only reciprocate your appreciation and I am completely with you with regards of wanting to leave something for your children; In the back of my mind I had always my own children in mind with often reminding myself ''Is this something I can leave for them - can they pick this up easily enough...''

Depending on which model one pursues, data consistency, or lack thereof can make an absolute huge difference in the resulting of profit and loss. Thus, CME's data is universal and broker independent, and above all real, in the sense of that they provide you with real traded prices and traded volume too.

Further and to add even more insult to any retail spot FX feed is, the very fact of brokers having implemented a fifth digit to their price feed. This is an absolute nonsense and further complicating proper data mining across the board over the so many available broker price data feeds as well as making it even more difficult to work and trade with proper price presentation of market data and charting thereof thus especially important when trading off of a smaller time frame.

But the good thing is with the CME's pricing it's the way it has always been and should continue to be - pricing is structured in 4 decimal digits only.


PS: It's funny you mentioning the concerns you have about the vulnerability of my 'skeleton MT4 solution' with regards to being at Metaquote's mercy with future platform updates - I had wanted to mention this whilst writing my post but then thought the better of it in order not to complicate things too much, but the fact is that in my case it truly is, a 'MT4 skeleton' in all regards - as in, dead - as dead can be...! No one can touch it.
  • #2,359
  • Jun 4, 2017 4:54am Jun 4, 2017 4:54am
Your challenge is not about forex but about psychology. You are somebody who has a problem with making choices and focusing I think.
My advice:
* choose your favorite pair to trade (only 1)
* choose your favorite time-frame (only 1)
* choose your favorite indicator (only 1)

Then start trading or developing a new system first based on the above, but DO NOT EXPAND with more of the above before this works.
If with "all your favorites" you can't make profit, then expanding and changing is not the solution. STAY FOCUSED.
Wish you great trades.
  • #2,360
  • Jun 4, 2017 7:25am Jun 4, 2017 7:25am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Fascinating solution you got there. I cannot fathom the idea of building a skeleton as one must understand the deep inner workings of MT4 to make this solution work. Don't you need a special license from Metaquotes to update their client software?I have not fully researched this area yet but eventually was leaning towards a FIX API type of solution similar to this option. Curious if you are trading futures or spot fx i.e sending orders to CME or just using their feed and sending orders directly to some...
do it very simple, you do most difficult way:
you call you earn much much money, so simple do like we all do who earn money:

- hire someone who works as your secretary (for all buildings, daily staff, driving,....)
- hire 1 programmer and programm team (however big your team needs to be, normally 1 person is fast enough if its good enough)

this is most of the time enough, pay both 5000-15000 per month fix income (depends from the country where you live and the quality of work) and you get extrem good work done. if you earn less then this 15000 per month (if you can earn 15000 in one day with trading i would do this step, if not use smaller fix amount) reduces the work they do (so need to pay less) or get to this point. in genrell trading needs to be calculated able. if you can calculate your wins you will have on the end of the month with a good chance, then you can do such live style and live much more easy and wins grow extrem faster. and then use your api program style your own way. if you cant trust your programmer, take new one or do not implement all and add it later by yourself or make this parameters as inputs in the programm.

if you start learning trading or have less then 10.000 win per month, then i would not hire someone, because they are more expensive then your own working time. but because you write lkike you got this point with very high wins allready, so easy to live easy! live is not complicated if not done complicated.
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