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Hedging/Nedging

  • #61
  • Apr 22, 2017 5:30pm Apr 22, 2017 5:30pm
Quoting wizlon32
{quote} yes MT4. If MT4 volume is not correct then god knows how i've made a single penny because it is the backbone of my trading.
yes, its not volume. i have to take a look, but i think it was maybe how many different trades was done in this bar or how often the price changed in this bar. but maybe i am wrong and its corrected, but in mt4 i dont think so.

maybe some who use this can also write here what it represence.
  • #62
  • Apr 22, 2017 5:31pm Apr 22, 2017 5:31pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} yes, its not volume. i have to take a look, but i think it was maybe how many different trades was done in this bar or how often the price changed in this bar. but maybe i am wrong and its corrected, but in mt4 i dont think so.
Its broker tick volume. Good enough for me
Indentify > Plan > Accept > Execute
  • #63
  • Apr 22, 2017 5:34pm Apr 22, 2017 5:34pm
Quoting wizlon32
{quote} Its broker tick volume. Good enough for me
yes tickcounter (no tickvolume) , so nothing compareable to volume, would be funny if you would be sucessfull by volume, first one in forex ;-). tickcounter is completly different and only for this broker. it simple counts how many time price changed in 1 bar by this broker platform. if traded 1 lot or 10000 millions is not important.
  • #64
  • Edited 6:14pm Apr 22, 2017 5:40pm | Edited 6:14pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} yes tickcounter , so nothing compareable to volume, would be funny if you would be sucessfull by volume, first one in forex ;-). tickcounter is completly different.
ok mate maybe its divine intervention but somehow most of my decisions are right at the moment. I think that what we have thrashed out here is that if something works for you then do it and if it doesn't then don't. Good luck to you all and keep doing what works!
Indentify > Plan > Accept > Execute
  • #65
  • Apr 22, 2017 5:44pm Apr 22, 2017 5:44pm
Quoting TGS
To clarify my post, I was mostly referring to the post I quoted with which we were told same pair hedging (or "nedging" by merlin) offers no advantage whatsoever. As for my reference about the three pair ring situation, it was to summarize a response to the other posts without making those other quotations. It was in order to avoid their reply from becoming side tracked because they seemed adamant about the algebra and I wanted to point out that yes, I understand.
Fair enough.
  • #66
  • Apr 22, 2017 7:05pm Apr 22, 2017 7:05pm
Quoting kprsa
{quote} Large spread is a concern but less so in relation with the long-term character of the positions that I was referring to. However, as I've mentioned before, the behaviour of a liquid market after the weekend gap is usually consistent with large traders doing the nedge and getting trapped on the wrong side of the trade. While I may be dumb, Goldm@n $achs isn't. k
You are just creating a narrative to fit your viewpoint. It's not based in reality until such time as you can show that players like Goldman EVEN KNOW WHAT A NEDGE IS to start with,

AND

Even more importantly, CAN CREATE SUCH AN OBSCENE NON-POSITION in the first place.

Do you really think they use MT4?

Come on now. Come back to reality.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #67
  • Apr 22, 2017 7:08pm Apr 22, 2017 7:08pm
Quoting srt
{quote} If a trader "hedges" then there wouldn't be a SL as the hedge is the protection so doesn't matter if the spreads widen. Of course you could use a SL on both positions but I don't think that's the way it's usually done but could be wrong.
This is true. I do often forget there are people that do stupid shit like not use SL's. In this case it works in their favor, but no more than trying to poke your eye out is benefited by cutting-off your fingers.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #68
  • Apr 22, 2017 7:12pm Apr 22, 2017 7:12pm
Quoting wizlon32
{quote} Hey Nobcake
This will always be regarded as so very clever. Clever girl. Good job. Very impressed with your creativity.

Quote
Anyway I hope you will do me the pleasure of adding me to your huge ignore list

Now that you reminded me... yes. Yes, I will. Thanks!

Quote
with all of the other arseholes who obviously infuriate you for having a different opinion.

That's not how you say "dumb fucks who are just a blight on the forum, and world, and who I have no desire to read their ignorance". But, you used letters that made words, so give yourself a pat on the back. I know it was probably a struggle for you.

Quote
On the other hand if you would like to learn something I will be happy to provide a detailed example of how I make same pair hedging work for me.

Classic.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #69
  • Apr 22, 2017 7:12pm Apr 22, 2017 7:12pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} This is true. I do often forget there are people that do stupid shit like not use SL's. In this case it works in their favor, but no more than trying to poke your eye out is benefited by cutting-off your fingers.
sort of. Actually no, he started off well but he's still a bell end
Indentify > Plan > Accept > Execute
  • #70
  • Apr 22, 2017 7:14pm Apr 22, 2017 7:14pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} This will always be regarded as so very clever. Clever girl. Good job. Very impressed with your creativity. {quote} Now that you reminded me... yes. Yes, I will. Thanks! {quote} That's not how you say "dumb fucks who are just a blight on the forum, and world, and who I have no desire to read their ignorance". But, you used letters that made words, so give yourself a pat on the back. I know it was probably a struggle for you. {quote} Classic.
Brilliant. Who gave this prick a red badge?
Indentify > Plan > Accept > Execute
  • #71
  • Apr 22, 2017 7:18pm Apr 22, 2017 7:18pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} This will always be regarded as so very clever. Clever girl. Good job. Very impressed with your creativity. {quote} Now that you reminded me... yes. Yes, I will. Thanks! {quote} That's not how you say "dumb fucks who are just a blight on the forum, and world, and who I have no desire to read their ignorance". But, you used letters that made words, so give yourself a pat on the back. I know it was probably a struggle for you. {quote} Classic.
Yes, I made it!

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Indentify > Plan > Accept > Execute
  • #72
  • Apr 22, 2017 9:43pm Apr 22, 2017 9:43pm
As Hanover pointed out, I am talking about "hedging" within the SAME pair. It is not an opinion. It is a mathematical certainty (100%).

If you want to give your money away to your broker by hedging within the same pair then be my guest. I've always been quite surprised at how many "traders" can't wrap their head around the concept of net position. All of your open trades within a pair should be in ONE direction and ONE direction only. If you have contradicting open positions you are incurring additional and unnecessary cost. Simple as that.

As for the argument that hedging helps by creating mental discipline (aka a crutch), that means the trader is weak and should have no business in trading.
  • #73
  • Apr 22, 2017 10:04pm Apr 22, 2017 10:04pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
As Hanover pointed out, I am talking about "hedging" within the SAME pair. It is not an opinion. It is a mathematical certainty (100%). If you want to give your money away to your broker by hedging within the same pair then be my guest. I've always been quite surprised at how many "traders" can't wrap their head around the concept of net position. All of your open trades within a pair should be in ONE direction and ONE direction only. If you have contradicting open positions you are incurring additional and unnecessary cost. Simple as that. As for...
true. i have never seen a good trader using hedging, when you see an account with hedging you simple know this is a beginner or just dont know it better, never a experienced trader, because the rule "flat by closing is always better then hedging " is one of the basic starter rules. many people look like never heard from basics of trading or get teached by wrong people or even more worse seminars and books. people look for best brokers want to save 0,1 pip spread with better brokers, and then waste save money by doing such stupid hedging. but how ever, its not smart, but can be done. reasons against hedging are all told, if someone cant see, we cant do more to help.

often hedging is used together with stupid grid and martingale systems, then you see so many mistakes in their tading, you cant really belief why they dont start to learn the basics of trading math first.
  • #74
  • Apr 22, 2017 10:19pm Apr 22, 2017 10:19pm
Quoting TGS
{quote} I know that I for one have been at awe of your genius. Please forgive me for not being able to wrap my head around this profound understanding, or concept. lol Look, surely you've heard of the idiom: "Different strokes for different folks." Why some of you are so determined to prove the point from your perspective, and with such hatred and venom, is beyond me. If they are wrong then why not allow them to be wrong and continue providing liquidity to the market with their account deposits?
but they can be wrong, noone say anything about it.

its same like anyone cant say anything against when someone using a broker with 2 pip spread when broker with 1 pip spread are possible and easy to use. thats exactly same thing, nothing to say, only not very smart by math.

you cant see that we try to help, nothing more. you decide what you think about the help, what you want and if you want use it. not all can be helped same time, not all even know the rules for trading or math inside logic behind some markets.

its nothing more here then telling the rules of trading, basic knowledge of math behind hedging and you choose for your own. hedging rule is nothing to really discuss about, because its simple math rule, like trading with 1 pip spread has more win then trading with 2 pip spread or trading with smaller rollover fee has more win then bigger rollover fee. simple.
  • #75
  • Apr 22, 2017 11:19pm Apr 22, 2017 11:19pm
Quoting TGS
{quote} I'm sure he has heard the warnings and it is now up to him to decide whether or not to accept that information. {quote} Yeah but the way you "try to help" is actually not helping. Your help is probably perceived as conflicting information because your way of communication clearly shows that you do not want what's good for him. Imagine you're in a psychiatric hospital and they try to shove pills in your mouth to tranquilize you while saying "you can't see that we try to help, nothing more." Well what they really mean is, this is good for...
You are just another one who can't be told, and when someone does you pull-out the "troll" card. It's a tired and transparent tactic that simply doesn't work, and only reveals more about you as a whiny little irritant.

Oh, I'm such a troll because I don't put-up with inane nonsense. Ok, I'm a troll. Top kek.

And with that, you too can go on ignore. Congrats. Savor it. You guys can't be removed from the forum, but I don't have to see you defending and championing stupidity. You can all wallow in your collective ignorance. I'd rather just see posts that provide value, from people who have value to provide. That is, after all, the troll way, apparently. How dare I not waste my time reading trite post after trite post by incompetent fools!

Ignorance is bliss; More-so when you are ignoring the ignorant.

That anyone would defend nedging speaks volumes of the quality of people who post here. Don't ever wonder why my ignore list is long, because so many of you are precisely the reason. Nedging is naff, and a delusion. The religion of nedging shouldn't be tolerated, and thus it isn't.

OP needs to start a new thread, but without discussing, or tolerating the discussion of, nedging. GL OP.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #76
  • Apr 22, 2017 11:28pm Apr 22, 2017 11:28pm
It's so hard to have decent discussion in FF these days when everyone keep taking things personal. How hard is it to agree to disagree? Some of you need to learn how to let go and move on.
  • #77
  • Apr 23, 2017 12:25am Apr 23, 2017 12:25am
Quoting FxLapozi
It's so hard to have decent discussion in FF these days when everyone keep taking things personal. How hard is it to agree to disagree? Some of you need to learn how to let go and move on.
Because some things are patently true, and patently false.

That some people "make it work for them" is neither here nor there in regards to somethings legitimacy. If I argued to you that the sky is not blue, but some other color, who are you to tell me that I'm wrong when I maintain that it does me no harm to claim it's not blue AND also tell others as such.

You are more or less saying "What harm can it do?", and too often the answer to that question is plenty of bad.

It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion when every low-brow wants to say their 2c and tell everyone else who knows a thing or two they are wrong. It's literally a negaverse in here sometimes, where only the most stupid shit is permitted while simple facts and basic logic is pushed-aside for "feels".

It is quite literally religious on this forum, and anything that has the smell of "bucking the trend" is given 3 gold stars and a green pass. This forum is filled to the brim with lowest common denominators, and they simply won't learn. And yet it is they who cry "troll" at every turn. It's both funny and sad.

When threads start-off on the wrong foot, and never corrects itself, there is no hope to be found.

Feel free to agree to disagree.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #78
  • Apr 23, 2017 12:30am Apr 23, 2017 12:30am
Quoting TGS
{quote} I'm sure he has heard the warnings and it is now up to him to decide whether or not to accept that information. {quote} Yeah but the way you "try to help" is actually not helping. Your help is probably perceived as conflicting information because your way of communication clearly shows that you do not want what's good for him. Imagine you're in a psychiatric hospital and they try to shove pills in your mouth to tranquilize you while saying "you can't see that we try to help, nothing more." Well what they really mean is, this is good for...
ohoh, you are joking ,or?

i respect that you are abolute new in trading and dont know what you are talking about. thats ok, i also respect that you show a trade explorer with some days trade history in demo account and talk the public hedging is working for you, what a big joke. i respect that you are one of the bigger trolls here in forum ( and even dont know you are one of the bigger trolls, whats little ironie). all this is fine, and that you have to learn much (at least the basics please) is easy to see in many of your posts with many mistakes often.

but what i cant respect is your bad written part, i will only for people whats best for me. that shows you are not only bad as trader (but thats normal by your skill level at starting) but also very bad in estimate people. for me it sounds your are really in a psychiatric hospital and cant understand trading by math and do crazy stuff and want other people do same (to speak in your example). that you are satisfied with your trading, fine (i cant see why or what you have done so good, but thats your problem and not my), maybe you are one of the demo account trolls that trade without stoploss and post after some days extrem hedging some profits, but many do so... how ever.

i dont want teach you and i think noone will, live with this fact. there was a discussion about hedging, it was shown that closing trades is much better then hedging . when you use hedging it is your problem and when you can live with it (and in your demo account you really dont need to think about it) all is fine,noone told you that you cant hedge, have big losses if you hedge or hedging is total wrong. it was only told its not best way. but noone told you, you have to trade smart or best way.

i have never seen a troll wrote that other are trolls, you are the first one. with time you will see here many things .

and dont take it personal. but its difficult to write to a troll without telling him that he is one.

and dont tell people you like to learn, you are only here to tell whats correct in your mind, not whats correct by math or in generell. hedging is ok for you, you told the world often, fine, nobody has a problem with it. accept it!
next time, when you tell something, use some arguments, like why is your hedging so much better then closing and reopen? this would be facts, not this complete useless text what dont helps anything and will only tell the world again, you like to hedge (but reason why is not possible to see).
  • #79
  • Apr 23, 2017 1:13am Apr 23, 2017 1:13am
Opening a new position in the opposite direction to a trade you have open, has the same effect on your bottom line as closing your original trade. Period. No offense meant, but anyone who can't immediately see the mathematical truth of that statement should not be trading. There are many, many intellectual & psychological hurdles to clear along the path to long term profitability - this, quite frankly, is one of the lowest hurdles to clear.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
  • #80
  • Apr 23, 2017 1:20am Apr 23, 2017 1:20am
I agree. This hedging business is the dumbest thing I've ever heard/read. Long and short at the same time? Dumb.
Look Sharp/Trade Tight
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