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  • #3,221
  • Edited 8:49pm Apr 16, 2017 8:09pm | Edited 8:49pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} {quote} You too and everyone here. Somewhat disturbing that America is yet again judge, jury and executioner. Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad? Next Iran? What do they all have in common? All dared to detach the USD from their oil.
Between us and Canada, we are floating in oil. Have no need of the east. The attack on Syria was backing up Obama's line in the sand. Though Obama made the statement, it was Americas word that got dishonored. It was also a message to the world that the US would take action immediately if necessary. I also have been watching closely and think that Russia was behind the gas attack. Their attack on a hospital to destroy the evidence seems to back that up. I believe almost nothing in the news anymore without cross referencing other sources. Iran and North Korea the real targets.

Edit: Sorry I didn't read all post fore I opened my big mouth. We have a major problem with democracy's in that the foreign policy's can change every 4 or 8 years. So few seem to study history or learn from it. Sometimes dictators have to be left in place as taking them out would create even bigger problems. Many wanted Hirohito tried and executed after WWII. Smarter, cooler heads prevailed and Japan was rebuilt much easier than would have been otherwise the case. Bush, the elder, realized that he needed to leave Saddam in place as a counterbalance to Iran. Bush, the younger, did not heed the message. I could not believe that Hillary's "mission" was to take out Gaddafi. Look at the mess there.

It's easy for us all to say we should a done this or we should a done that. Problem is, we still gotta couple major problems A. Muslims swarming into our countries, not to adapt but to conquer. B. Iran with a religious ideology to destroy all non believers. C. North Korea -- a true country wide insane asylum.
Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #3,222
  • Edited 4:24am Apr 17, 2017 3:48am | Edited 4:24am
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Between us and Canada, we are floating in oil. Have no need of the east. The attack on Syria was backing up Obama's line in the sand. Though Obama made the statement, it was Americas word that got dishonored. It was also a message to the world that the US would take action immediately if necessary. I also have been watching closely and think that Russia was behind the gas attack. Their attack on a hospital to destroy the evidence seems to back that up. I believe almost nothing in the news anymore without cross referencing other sources....
You may not have need for any more oil but the rest of the world does and in order to buy oil from the Middle East, firstly they have to buy USD. So, America prints some and exchanges them for genuine currency; that is my understanding of the petrodollar issue. What I don't get is then how comes America is $20 trillion plus in debt when they have that money printing machine?!

Edit: the market cap of Tesla is now greater than that of Ford. Oil will be redundant soon, once China has figured out better battery life (half a joke!) Then we can go and nuke Saudi Arabia and deal with the Muslim problem properly.
  • #3,223
  • Apr 17, 2017 3:50am Apr 17, 2017 3:50am
Some Easter food for thought passed to me from an old friend.
https://youtu.be/_dotSUejWQQ
https://youtu.be/xMBv8aA_Fks
  • #3,224
  • Apr 17, 2017 5:40am Apr 17, 2017 5:40am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Thanks for the explanation. Now about the Korean war, was that about NK and Communism advancing south? What has that to do with Japan? Was NK a threat to Japan? In WW2, the Japanese were at war with the US, so why would the US want to protect them afterwards? After WW2, Germany were not allowed an army either but no one protected them. I guess they are trying to sneak through an "EU" army now.
After WW2 Germany was prohibited from having an army. Unlike after WW1 somebodies have realised that creating poverty in Germany caused WW2, and therefore Germany was protected by NATO. The sudden arrival of the Cold War also was a convenient justification for placing troops in Europe from the USA and the UK.

The same situation arose with Japan. Rather than leave an unprotected country that would surely cause other unknown problems, the USA provided the armed forces to provide basic protection for Japan who were forbidden from maintaining their own armed forces. The result of all that is that the Japanese focused economically on engineering and technology. I'm not sure if it was deliberate or accidental, but the Japanese economy grew to be #2 in the world until this decade (now ousted by the Chinese) and their reputation for technological excellence stands today ... rather like the German reputation for the same. Could we learn something here....?
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,225
  • Apr 17, 2017 6:01am Apr 17, 2017 6:01am
Quoting jen101
Some Easter food for thought passed to me from an old friend. https://youtu.be/_dotSUejWQQ https://youtu.be/xMBv8aA_Fks
So ... as I suspected ... Tony Blurt was/is the Devil incarnate!
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,226
  • Apr 17, 2017 6:27am Apr 17, 2017 6:27am
The more plausible story on syrian gas attack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKhdfuiL1bE

ps nice thread jen
Adriaaaaan
  • #3,227
  • Edited 7:11am Apr 17, 2017 6:47am | Edited 7:11am
Quoting jen101
{quote} You may not have need for any more oil but the rest of the world does and in order to buy oil from the Middle East, firstly they have to buy USD. So, America prints some and exchanges them for genuine currency; that is my understanding of the petrodollar issue. What I don't get is then how comes America is $20 trillion plus in debt when they have that money printing machine?! Edit: the market cap of Tesla is now greater than that of Ford. Oil will be redundant soon, once China has figured out better battery life (half a joke!) Then we can...
Do you think Russia doesn't print money, do you think China doesn't print money, or the UK, or Japan or the EU? What makes their currency's genuine but the USA's currency fake? There is no difference, in fact out of all those countries the US might just be the most honest player, it is certainly more honest than China and Japan.

There is a misconception about printing money, a mistaken belief that the money the US prints is 'free' and at the expense of other countries - that's wrong.

All the money America has 'printed' must be paid back. All the debt of the US government is currently held as bonds and those bonds must be paid back.
The US federal reserve prints money > the FED buys 30 years bonds sold by the government > the US government pays down those bonds in the future = no net printing.

That's why you aren't understanding how the US can have 20 trillion of debt in-spite of the FED. The monetary discipline of the US government means they recognize that money must be paid back.

I know if you spend the time thinking about this it will click.
  • #3,228
  • Edited 7:29am Apr 17, 2017 6:59am | Edited 7:29am
Quoting jen101
{quote} You may not have need for any more oil but the rest of the world does and in order to buy oil from the Middle East, firstly they have to buy USD. So, America prints some and exchanges them for genuine currency; that is my understanding of the petrodollar issue. What I don't get is then how comes America is $20 trillion plus in debt when they have that money printing machine?! Edit: the market cap of Tesla is now greater than that of Ford. Oil will be redundant soon, once China has figured out better battery life (half a joke!) Then we can...
Second question in this is why is the US the worlds reserve currency.

The primary reason is the US is the worlds biggest and most diverse economy. Imagine if Singapore tired to be become the worlds reserve currency, its economy is 50-100 smaller than the US economy, if the Singapore dollar became the worlds reserve currency it would strengthen their currency to such a degree that it would wreck their economy. It cannot be the worlds reserve currency because it is not big enough.

The second reason is that the US is also one of the most honest countries in the world, who protect private property rights, and who have never defaulted on debt. Imagine if Germany was the world reserve currency, it losses world war one and then defaults on its debt payments meaning the value of the currency was worthless. Germany could not be trusted to be the worlds currency for a long time.

The US dollar is the worlds reserve currency for historical reasons, it is the only currency capable of being the worlds reserve currency and it happens to be trusted enough by others.

The pricing of oil is locked up in international agreements. Buyers simply want to transact in the US dollar, sellers simply want to transact in the US dollar. It's not some conspiracy plot.

The worlds reserve currency prior to the US dollar was the UK pound sterling. The Euro was gaining greater traction as the world reserve currency until the financial crisis, and the Chinese currency might be a reserve currency in the future.
  • #3,229
  • Edited 7:30am Apr 17, 2017 7:02am | Edited 7:30am
Quoting jen101
{quote} You may not have need for any more oil but the rest of the world does and in order to buy oil from the Middle East, firstly they have to buy USD. So, America prints some and exchanges them for genuine currency; that is my understanding of the petrodollar issue. What I don't get is then how comes America is $20 trillion plus in debt when they have that money printing machine?! Edit: the market cap of Tesla is now greater than that of Ford. Oil will be redundant soon, once China has figured out better battery life (half a joke!) Then we can...
Final one.

The information in the videos that some people post on this website, and in this thread, about some shadowy cabal of international American banksters gaming the system is wrong.

The information on how the American system works is freely available for anyone to figure out, many of these types of videos are based upon factually wrong assumptions of the way the US government works.

This is either done because 1) the person making the video doesn't understand international finance, or 2) click bait for financial gain, or 3) because the person making the video does understand international finance but is making a political point.

It has been suggested that many of these videos are being made by anti-West trolls shilling for the Kremlin. A dead give away is that the people making these accounts never criticize Russia, or China, ONLY THE WEST.

These videos rely upon the viewer not fully understanding how international finance works.
I admit I fell for it in the past, I'm sure you will see why it is bs too.
  • #3,230
  • Apr 17, 2017 7:48am Apr 17, 2017 7:48am
Quoting Johnramb0
The more plausible story on syrian gas attack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKhdfuiL1bE ps nice thread jen
Never heard of the this guy. Shows that the left and the right distrust media generally.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #3,231
  • Apr 17, 2017 7:53am Apr 17, 2017 7:53am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-39592010

left and right both equally guilty of fake news
  • #3,232
  • Apr 17, 2017 8:06am Apr 17, 2017 8:06am
Quoting verv
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-39592010 left and right both equally guilty of fake news
I prefer the old word, propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #3,233
  • Apr 17, 2017 9:43am Apr 17, 2017 9:43am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Never heard of the this guy. Shows that the left and the right distrust media generally.
jimmy dore or the MIT professor?
Adriaaaaan
  • #3,234
  • Apr 17, 2017 10:12am Apr 17, 2017 10:12am
Hey sweetie. Long time ... Hope all is well.

Quoting jen101
{quote} So, America prints some and exchanges them for genuine currency; that is my understanding of the petrodollar issue. What I don't get is then how comes America is $20 trillion plus in debt when they have that money printing machine?!
This is what most of the world (and sadly now, the vast majority of Americans as well) just don't understand.

The answer? Simple. The USA dose NOT own those printing machines. The FED does. Contrary to popular belief, and the propaganda that supports the lie, the FED is NOT owned by, controlled by, or in any way even part of America.

We, just like all those you correctly mention who need to buy (or exchange for) "dollars", have to "borrow" our money from that FED and they charge us interest on the loan. That's where the 20+ TRILLION dollars in debt comes from. The interest owed on paper money printed from thin air (no longer based on, or capped by the gold supply we "used" to own but now, just a fiat "currency").

The "FED" is a great little scam devised by a small group of the richest families on Earth (The Rothschild's and such). In fact, it was Charles Rothschild (senior) himself who said the famous words .... "Give me control of a nations money and I care not not who makes the laws". These families, owning most of the worlds wealth in everything from "real money" (Gold, Silver, Jewels etc. etc.) to tangible assets (like property, buildings, railways, oil etc. etc.), found themselves in a very unique position having the nations of the world (America included), coming to them for help in funding various endeavors like infrastructure, development, WARS ... etc. etc.

Since handing over (or loaning) "real" money was both problematic and far too risky in being paid back, they devised a simple, very devious and VERY profitable plan. Paper currency.

Now at first of course, this FIAT money was backed by real Gold, Silver, Jewels and other long held "perceptions" of value or "real wealth". This was necessary to "grow" the plan into an acceptable form of exchange. At first, they (the FED) could not print more paper then they actually held in real wealth. Likewise, no nation could borrow more than they could "project" being able to pay back based on the same types of holdings. Then slowly, over much time and careful manipulation, the "base" of these new currencies around the world were removed. (The loss of the Gold Standard). This now gave the the FED unlimited printing and loaning power. They print FAKE money out of thin air (not backed by anything) and make REAL money paid back in interest on the loan. Paid of course in "Taxes" taken directly from the working people of the nations. Remember, NO government has or makes any money of their own. (Always kills me when folks refer to "the government's" money) LOL ... yeah, right! LOL

It used to be we had money that was real. On it was printed Gold or Silver "Certificate" and .... "Pay to the bearer on demand". That meant we could go to a bank with say a $5 "bill" and get $5 worth of Gold or Silver in return. But obviously, no more. For a while it was changed to "promissory note" and now it simply says "Federal Reserve Note". Federal meaning FED and NOT federal government of the United States.

Now the truly frightening (devious) part of this plan is how many future generations are now "on the hook" for paying back all this debt incurred by wasteful spending, poor planning and flat out theft of ALL our nations so-called leaders. The misuse of "Credit" has been, is and will always be a bad thing.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #3,235
  • Apr 17, 2017 10:51am Apr 17, 2017 10:51am
Quoting albchr
Hey sweetie. Long time ... Hope all is well. {quote} This is what most of the world (and sadly now, the vast majority of Americans as well) just don't understand. The answer? Simple. The USA dose NOT own those printing machines. The FED does. Contrary to popular belief, and the propaganda that supports the lie, the FED is NOT owned by, controlled by, or in any way even part of America. We, just like all those you correctly mention who need to buy (or exchange for) "dollars", have to "borrow" our money from that FED and they charge us interest...
albchr, what you have answered is a different question. Who owns the Fed is not an answer about how the Fed operates from a technical perspective.

I think many in this thread will have watched Edward Griffins' 'The creature from Jekyll Island' - in my case, watched, watched again, and rewatched. I have also looked into the history of the bank of england. It's structure is better documented than the Fed and there are old ownership lists which you can find online before their shares converted to 'treasury shares' after 'nationalization' - so we can know who owned it before it was nationalised, and I regret to inform you I never found a rothschild on the list of owners pre 'nationalisation'.

The central banks have an contract with governments in some form or another. In the case of the Fed profits are sent to the US treasury, in the case of the BoE sends 50% of profits to the UK treasury - the rest stays with the BoE and I suspect resides in their incorporated company called 'The Bank of England Nominees' which is exempt from normal company oversight (strange I know).

The fact that these are quasi public / private entities with odd ownership structures does not mean that they function and operate in a manner which many claim they do - i.e. just print money for their own benefit. I admit that the ownership structures do not make sense to me, I would go as far as saying they could be corrupt.

But I do not accept the idea that they are cabal which control the activity of world wide governments, that force people to conduct business in the dollar. That is utter garbage.

There are people who have probably done as much, if not more research into this than you. And I mean primary research, going through historical government legislation and paper trails - not listening to some dumbass youtuber.
  • #3,236
  • Apr 17, 2017 11:04am Apr 17, 2017 11:04am
Quoting verv
{quote} .... But I do not accept the idea that they are cabal which control the activity of world wide governments, that force people to conduct business in the dollar. That is utter garbage.
Hi Verv. Well first, I never said they control (or even try to) the "activity" of world wide governments. In fact, far from it. They want no part of all that. But they do control the money, the flow of it and perhaps most important, the interest rate. I would disagree however that they are not a Cabal. They are in the most accurate definition of the word.

But, being that they do control the issuance of money and the terms, I think it would be somewhat short sighted to not consider that a nation's policies are made with that in mind. No?
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #3,237
  • Apr 17, 2017 12:18pm Apr 17, 2017 12:18pm
Quoting verv
.... the US is also one of the most honest countries in the world, who protect private property rights, and who have never defaulted on debt ....
Attached Image
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,238
  • Apr 17, 2017 12:24pm Apr 17, 2017 12:24pm
Quoting albchr
.....
Hey Chris

Nice to see you again!

I would send you a hug but somebody lunched all the emojis......
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,239
  • Apr 17, 2017 3:27pm Apr 17, 2017 3:27pm
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Hey Chris Nice to see you again! I would send you a hug but somebody lunched all the emojis......
Hey brother. Good to see you too. Yeah I know, this place is rotting fast. The emojis were about the best thing left. Now they're gone too. LOL
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #3,240
  • Edited 6:58pm Apr 17, 2017 4:55pm | Edited 6:58pm
Quoting albchr
{quote} Hi Verv. Well first, I never said they control (or even try to) the "activity" of world wide governments. In fact, far from it. They want no part of all that. But they do control the money, the flow of it and perhaps most important, the interest rate. I would disagree however that they are not a Cabal. They are in the most accurate definition of the word. But, being that they do control the issuance of money and the terms, I think it would be somewhat short sighted to not consider that a nation's policies are made with that in mind. No?

I never said you did, I was just passing comment because many of the people who talk about the Fed in such terms as you have also believes in a dynastic cabal controlling world affairs.

Clearly though you do think along those lines also. Firstly you have taken issue with a quote of mine that concerns a private bankster global political conspiracy and secondly you later say "I think it would be somewhat short sighted to not consider that a nation's policies are made with that in mind". It's def something on your mind too.

The first question I would have for you is who is 'they' when you say '[i] disagree however that they are not a Cabal'? The second question is what evidence do you have of who 'they' is?

The point I'm making is that you probably don't know who 'owns' these central reserve banks anymore than I do and I have spent a considerable amount of time looking into it. In the absence of complete understanding we have these 'theories' floating around which all seem to point to a dynastic cabal of bankers secretly plotting and stealing the wealth of nations, but where is the hard evidence?

Personally I have come to the conclusion that is ridiculous. The most obvious reason why it is ridiculous is that there are other simpler and cleaner explanations for their odd public/private structure. One of which is that these central banks are supposed to work on behalf of the government but be independent of the government. Therefore they need to be sanctioned by government, but not be owned or operated by government. Complex yes, but necessarily corrupt?

The other reason I think the entire thing is ridiculous is because for a dynastic cabal to exist we must accept several improbable things; 1) that this organisation is enormous with secret subversive agents controlling and influencing governments for several centuries that has never been exposed; 2) that all members of this organisation have been in perfect cooperation for the past few centuries; 3) that nobody within this organisation has been willing to leak the true role and true identity of the owners for several centuries; 4) that intelligence agencies and governments have been duped for several centuries; or 5) that all governments around the world in fact DO know of the dynastic cabal and all have each independently decided that they are OK with this arrangement, and it would be better if this secret private cartel just siphoned of the countries 'wealth' (in spite of the fact that the Fed sends the profits to the treasury).

And forgive me for saying really obvious things, but my experience of the world suggests that competing interests would have outed this dynastic cabal by now. There is simply no way (to my mind) that other greedy people would not want a slice of that lucrative pie. When I attach a probability to a dynastic cabal that has managed to stay secret and pursue its aims of stealing the wealth from the world I put that probability of that organisation being successful for so long (read being real) as very very low.

The simple fact is there is no hard evidence to suggest the Rothschilds, the Carnegies, the Rockerfellers, the Warbergs or whoever else controls these central banks after all these centuries of subversive behind the scenes control.
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