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  • #3,201
  • Apr 12, 2017 7:31am Apr 12, 2017 7:31am
Quoting Exodus
Here comes the long-awaited collapse in the Chinese economy.... http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2086662/chinese-firm-cuts-costs-hiring-army-robots-sort-out-200000
No, it's just progress and more efficiency.
  • #3,202
  • Apr 13, 2017 12:23pm Apr 13, 2017 12:23pm
Happy Easter every body....
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,203
  • Apr 13, 2017 2:31pm Apr 13, 2017 2:31pm
Quoting Exodus
Happy Easter every body....
Make mine a fried one!! You too Ex and All
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,204
  • Apr 14, 2017 3:17am Apr 14, 2017 3:17am
Quoting Exodus
Happy Easter every body....
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Make mine a fried one!! You too Ex and All
You too and everyone here.

Somewhat disturbing that America is yet again judge, jury and executioner. Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad? Next Iran? What do they all have in common? All dared to detach the USD from their oil.

For once I agree with Corbyn: that there needs to be an independent enquiry and the perpetrator tried for war crimes. If I was American and voted for Trump on the basis that America was to stay away from meddling in overseas issues, I would now be bitterly disappointed.

I believe Assad. I watched him closely. I'm usually correct about people.

I saw this comment in the Daily Mail. Can anyone comment on this further?

Meanwhile award-winning US investigative journalist John Parry (famous for having uncovered the Iran-Contra affair) has gone on record to say that according to his US Intelligence sources, the chemical weapons attack in Syria was caused by a drone launched from a joint Saudi-IsraeIi special operations base in Jordan. Whether that might be right or wrong, you have got to question why serious claims from such a trusted source as this have gone completely unreported by the mainstream media. Highly suspicious.
  • #3,205
  • Apr 14, 2017 5:45am Apr 14, 2017 5:45am
Quoting jen101
{quote} {quote} You too and everyone here. Somewhat disturbing that America is yet again judge, jury and executioner. Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad? Next Iran? What do they all have in common? All dared to detach the USD from their oil. For once I agree with Corbyn: that there needs to be an independent enquiry and the perpetrator tried for war crimes. If I was American and voted for Trump on the basis that America was to stay away from meddling in overseas issues, I would now be bitterly disappointed. I believe Assad. I watched him closely. I'm usually...
i do not believe Assad wound be stupid enough to escalator a war that he is winning and of top of escalating the war gassing his own people that wound obviously damage his long term popularity after the war is over it makes no sense it go's against basic logic
  • #3,206
  • Apr 14, 2017 11:12am Apr 14, 2017 11:12am
Quoting jen101
{quote} {quote} You too and everyone here. Somewhat disturbing that America is yet again judge, jury and executioner. Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad? Next Iran? What do they all have in common? All dared to detach the USD from their oil. For once I agree with Corbyn: that there needs to be an independent enquiry and the perpetrator tried for war crimes. If I was American and voted for Trump on the basis that America was to stay away from meddling in overseas issues, I would now be bitterly disappointed. I believe Assad. I watched him closely. I'm usually...
Like most things it will come out in the wash. Too soon for me to jump to conclusions. The smoke and mirrors crap abounds us, it's getting more and more challenging to read between the lines. So I suppose I'm saying I'm on the fence................for now.

Religion isn't my thing but I do love a good Hot Cross bun with a good wedge of Lurpak.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,207
  • Apr 14, 2017 11:42am Apr 14, 2017 11:42am
Quoting jen101
{quote} {quote} You too and everyone here. Somewhat disturbing that America is yet again judge, jury and executioner. Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad? Next Iran? What do they all have in common? All dared to detach the USD from their oil. For once I agree with Corbyn: that there needs to be an independent enquiry and the perpetrator tried for war crimes. If I was American and voted for Trump on the basis that America was to stay away from meddling in overseas issues, I would now be bitterly disappointed. I believe Assad. I watched him closely. I'm usually...
The petro-dollar thing makes little sense. These countries are not titans of the world economy, the are very small players. The elephant in the room is that these counties were run by dictators that are a threat not only to their people but other nations around them as well. I think the petro dollar story is the stuff of quackery. I'm not saying I believe the reason for invading Iraq were valid but certainly I don't believe it was because of the petro-dollar.

However you could be right about Assad and the chemical weapons, the rebels could have set those off in the hope trump would respond. But if those chemicals were delivered by plane then it can only be the government.
  • #3,208
  • Edited 6:01am Apr 15, 2017 5:29am | Edited 6:01am
Quoting jen101
{quote} {quote} You too and everyone here. Somewhat disturbing that America is yet again judge, jury and executioner. Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad? Next Iran? What do they all have in common? All dared to detach the USD from their oil..
I agree with your concerns Jen. I too would have never thought that I would actually agree with a liberal point of view, but in the case of Tulsi Gabbard, who calls for an investigation before drawing to conclusions, is only being met from her own party members with much consternation and being ostracized for her comments. She is among the very few who is actually making a cogent argument in calling for a investigation before repeating the mistakes of US interventionism and regime change.

One guy who goes on to blast such hypocrites like Howard Dean succinctly puts it in perspective.

Warning, though, he uses profanity so watch with headphones if you have children around.

you (https://youtu.be/E1oECQ6r6do)

tu.be/E1oECQ6r6do (https://youtu.be/E1oECQ6r6do)


I guess I would say that I was excited when Trump was elected, but with recent events such as Syria's bombing, (as the US military is using places like these and Afghanistan as testing grounds for their latest weapons) the rumors of Steven Bannon being ousted and surrounding himself with Globalists, and ex-Goldman Sachs employees within his own National security team is troubling to say in the least. Trump does not get a blind pass from me, and the fact now our military is at the doorstep of NK, with the prospects of another conflict, is definitely cause for concern as it relates to tensions world wide. It is no wonder that the dollar is declining, and safe havens like the YEN is turning bullish in recent weeks predicated on such fears.
  • #3,209
  • Edited 6:17am Apr 15, 2017 5:57am | Edited 6:17am
Quoting verv
{quote} The petro-dollar thing makes little sense. These countries are not titans of the world economy, the are very small players. The elephant in the room is that these counties were run by dictators that are a threat not only to their people but other nations around them as well. I think the petro dollar story is the stuff of quackery. I'm not saying I believe the reason for invading Iraq were valid but certainly I don't believe it was because of the petro-dollar. However you could be right about Assad and the chemical weapons, the rebels could...
It is not so much about the petro dollar, but more to do with the US dollar being the worlds reserve currency, and preserving that status. What countries and dictators do you refer to specifically? Because each have their own unique circumstances. Libya for example, such as Ghadaffi who was using the Oil revenues of his countries to enhance and to provide free medical care, free education, created the largest irrigation project in the world to make available to every Libyan citizen free water, Libya had it's own state bank, free electricity for it's citizens, including introducing a currency that was backed by gold. I don't think it was no coincidence that Libya and Ghaddaffi himself met an untimely demise at the hands of US led coalition forces. Now regarding if he was a dictator is highly debatable, but him having ties to terrorism is an entirely different matter unto itself. As far as Assad being label a monster, and being responsible for the sarin gas attacks, I certainly do not believe the accusations are true. There is no verifiable evidence to support these claims. Furthermore, there is proof that rebels in 2013 serving as Assad's adversary in the civil war conflict have indeed used such chemical weapons in a strategy to remove Assad from power using the publicity campaign to wage such fights and some were US funded as well. Who do you think is supplying the gas lines to Europe? Why is it in US interests to disrupt a peace process, if they and Saudi's are supplying the proxies that are fighting against Assad have no war left to fight? Think about this for a moment? Profit? Probably the same reasons why there is no Peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis for the simple fact that perpetuating years long conflicts is a profitable enterprise for all parties involved. It is not in the interest of the US and their Globalist puppet masters to allow a cease fire and a peace reconciliation process to take place, for doing so will give both Syria and Russia a monopoly on gas lines to be built to supply all of Europe. It is why Turkey is acting as the legal proxy of all proxy's to keep perpetuating the conflict with other factions in the region for as long as they can. Body language is telling and reveals something entirely different when observing Assad's interviews, vs. viewing McMaster's (US head of National Security Intelligence) The Brits are just as bad in making such accusations without so much a shred of evidence to support them. It is also pathetic to hear Boris as he makes his rounds on the same propaganda tour in labeling Assad a dictator. He just lost all credibility as he just exposed himself with the rest of the war mongers out in the public domain beating the drums.


See video!
youtu.be/TkTUDw0mjMA (https://youtu.be/TkTUDw0mjMA)
  • #3,210
  • Apr 15, 2017 11:46am Apr 15, 2017 11:46am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I agree with your concerns Jen. I too would have never thought that I would actually agree with a liberal point of view, but in the case of Tulsi Gabbard, who calls for an investigation before drawing to conclusions, is only being met from her own party members with much consternation and being ostracized for her comments. She is among the very few who is actually making a cogent argument in calling for a investigation before repeating the mistakes of US interventionism and regime change. One guy who goes on to blast such hypocrites like...
Thanks for filling in some detail. I will watch those youtube videos when I get a little more time and some peace.

My history isn't that good. One thing I can't understand is why the US presence near North Korea. What business is it of theirs? Is it a revisit of the Korean war? I am appalled that Trump said he changed his mind. Does the electorate get to change their mind too?! I think duped is the word.
  • #3,211
  • Edited 1:31pm Apr 15, 2017 1:17pm | Edited 1:31pm
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} It is not so much about the petro dollar, but more to do with the US dollar being the worlds reserve currency, and preserving that status. What countries and dictators do you refer to specifically? Because each have their own unique circumstances. Libya for example, such as Ghadaffi who was using the Oil revenues of his countries to enhance and to provide free medical care, free education, created the largest irrigation project in the world to make available to every Libyan citizen free water, Libya had it's own state bank, free electricity...


The petrodollar stuff is bunk, its bunk for the reasons I outlined i.e. the dollar is not going to cease being the worlds reserve currency irrespective of whether a few middle eastern countries decide not to trade oil in the dollar. The dollar is considerably more resilient than that because the US economy is by some measure the most diverse and productive economy in the world. That's not going to change anytime soon, and besides it is the buyers market and they wish to transact in dollars. Lybia, Iraq and whoever generally want to stop using the dollar because of US sanctions.

The notion that gold is by itself the key to wealth is utter garbage also. Warren Buffett has a quote of gold that needs to be read and read again:

"I will say this about gold. If you took all the gold in the world, it would roughly make a cube 67 feet on a side. Now for that same cube of gold, it would be worth at today's market prices about $7 trillion that's probably about a third of the value of all the stocks in the United States. For $7 trillion you could have all the farmland in the United States, you could have about seven Exxon Mobils and you could have a trillion dollars of walking-around money. And if you offered me the choice of looking at some 67 foot cube of gold and looking at it all day, and you know me touching it and fondling it occasionally. Call me crazy, but I'll take the farmland and the Exxon Mobils."

Lybia could have all the gold in the world, and still have an economy that is in the gutter. The gold doesn't matter, the productive power of people matters. Gold by itself produces nothing. The use of gold was to allow those countries to skip sanctions, not because some shadowy global cabal got together and decided to rig the entire world economy.

Is Gaddafi a good guy? No is the short answer. The long answer is this is a guy who died the richest man on the planet by raping his country and his people of wealth which he had no right to. Great he provided some free water, really GOOD FOR HIM, but he still wouldn't allow his people free and fair elections and to decide on a government of their choice. He still wouldn't allow the people the spend the money they received from the oil as they see fit, no Gaddafi had to decide that for them. He cared for them so much that only he could be in power, only he could control that wealth. This is the same guy who gave 100s of tons of weapons to terrorists around the world, many tons of which ended up in the hands of Irish nationalist socialists (IRA) which killed British people.

Quote
As far as Assad being label a monster, and being responsible for the sarin gas attacks, I certainly do not believe the accusations are true. There is no verifiable evidence to support these claims. Furthermore, there is proof that rebels in 2013 serving as Assad's adversary in the civil war conflict have indeed used such chemical weapons in a strategy to remove Assad from power using the publicity campaign to wage such fights and some were US funded as well. Who do you think is supplying the gas lines to Europe? Why is it in US interests to disrupt...


I don't know a huge amount about Assad or Syria other than it is very complication. I suspect you don't know much either.

I too believe that the chemical attacks could have been by rebels - but I don't know - and I certainly do not advocate knee jerk reactions.

As for the video - it opens with Russia Today. Need I say more? Lets say some more, gold bla bla bla, secret cabal of globalists, bla bla bla. Those type of video pray on the naive. I regret to say that I was naive enough to fall for it at one point. The cure was significant absence from watching those videos and fresher more informed view of the financial world.

The West is not perfect, we get PLENTY wrong. But the West is also not the bad guy in the manner than those videos portray.
  • #3,212
  • Apr 15, 2017 1:56pm Apr 15, 2017 1:56pm
Quoting verv
{quote} The petrodollar stuff is bunk, its bunk for the reasons I outlined i.e. the dollar is not going to cease being the worlds reserve currency irrespective of whether a few middle eastern countries decide not to trade oil in the dollar. The dollar is considerably more resilient than that because the US economy is by some measure the most diverse and productive economy in the world. That's not going to change anytime soon, and besides it is the buyers market and they wish to transact in dollars. Lybia, Iraq and whoever generally want to stop...

Did you have personal experiences with the players involved? Did you or do you have former experiences with government agencies that gave you privy to certain information to corroborate your perspectives? It is seems you are rooted in your own dogma to really not know the actual facts, but only accepting of your view as being the truth. A world view is not always your own but one that is pieced together from many others as the saying goes, but let me not stop you from having your own even if they are indeed not accurate and limited in a linear perspective. No need to discuss further I couldn't possibly provide evidence without doing so in person that would change your view of what you think as being the truth, after all it is a subjective term.

BTW, the premise of my argument was not about Gold, nor was the video I provided. We can simply disagree, and that is OK.
  • #3,213
  • Apr 15, 2017 1:58pm Apr 15, 2017 1:58pm
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Did you have personal experiences with the players involved? Did you or do you have former experiences with government agencies that gave you privy to certain information to corroborate your perspectives? It is seems you are rooted in your own dogma to really not know the actual facts, but only accepting of your view as being the truth. A world view is not always your own but one that is pieced together from many others as the saying goes, but let me not stop you from having your own even if they are indeed not accurate and limited in a...
Corroborate what exactly?

What claim did I make that couldn't be googled?
  • #3,214
  • Apr 15, 2017 2:04pm Apr 15, 2017 2:04pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} Thanks for filling in some detail. I will watch those youtube videos when I get a little more time and some peace. My history isn't that good. One thing I can't understand is why the US presence near North Korea. What business is it of theirs? Is it a revisit of the Korean war? I am appalled that Trump said he changed his mind. Does the electorate get to change their mind too?! I think duped is the word.
The US does have a base with 28,000 US soldiers stationed there at the current moment. I believe due to the Korean war never have signed a peace treaty but instead a truce, in essence the conflict is still a harbinger of hostilities that is to this day unresolved. Uncertainties still accost us in more ways we care to admit, and NEO-Cons are replaced by newer ones they just sell it from a different point of view!
  • #3,215
  • Apr 15, 2017 2:07pm Apr 15, 2017 2:07pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Corroborate what exactly? What claim did I make that couldn't be googled?
Confirmation of your perspective as being fact. You do know that what I am talking about is not necessarily available on google right? And thanks for ignoring my other questions, I need not say more!
  • #3,216
  • Apr 15, 2017 2:41pm Apr 15, 2017 2:41pm
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Confirmation of your perspective as being fact. You do know that what I am talking about is not necessarily available on google right? And thanks for ignoring my other questions, I need not say more!
Rather than being vague and talking in generalities about 'dogma', and 'confirmation bias', be precise and ask a closed end question.

I have no clue what you are asking, I'm not sure you do either - so what exactly are you asking?

What specifically do you find disagreeable from what I said?
  • #3,217
  • Apr 16, 2017 8:43am Apr 16, 2017 8:43am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Thanks for filling in some detail. I will watch those youtube videos when I get a little more time and some peace. My history isn't that good. One thing I can't understand is why the US presence near North Korea. What business is it of theirs? Is it a revisit of the Korean war? I am appalled that Trump said he changed his mind. Does the electorate get to change their mind too?! I think duped is the word.
After the Japanese were defeated during WW2 they were prohibited from having armed forces. The US filled the role of 'protector'. Also the subsequent war with NK ultimately resulted in a cease-fire, I never heard anybody mention 'truce' and I don't believe the NKs believe there was a truce either. That war was against the US and UK ... although whether the UK was there in any capacity other than ally to the US I'm not sure.

There we have it ... the US is contracted to defend Japan against aggressors, and is technically still at war with NK.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,218
  • Apr 16, 2017 9:28am Apr 16, 2017 9:28am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} After the Japanese were defeated during WW2 they were prohibited from having armed forces. The US filled the role of 'protector'. Also the subsequent war with NK ultimately resulted in a cease-fire, I never heard anybody mention 'truce' and I don't believe the NKs believe there was a truce either. That war was against the US and UK ... although whether the UK was there in any capacity other than ally to the US I'm not sure. There we have it ... the US is contracted to defend Japan against aggressors, and is technically still at war with...
Wow, someone actually reads books! Nice history lesson.

Edit: I did not mean that against anyone here in this August thread.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #3,219
  • Apr 16, 2017 11:28am Apr 16, 2017 11:28am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} After the Japanese were defeated during WW2 they were prohibited from having armed forces. The US filled the role of 'protector'. Also the subsequent war with NK ultimately resulted in a cease-fire, I never heard anybody mention 'truce' and I don't believe the NKs believe there was a truce either. That war was against the US and UK ... although whether the UK was there in any capacity other than ally to the US I'm not sure. There we have it ... the US is contracted to defend Japan against aggressors, and is technically still at war with...
Thanks for the explanation. Now about the Korean war, was that about NK and Communism advancing south? What has that to do with Japan? Was NK a threat to Japan? In WW2, the Japanese were at war with the US, so why would the US want to protect them afterwards? After WW2, Germany were not allowed an army either but no one protected them. I guess they are trying to sneak through an "EU" army now.
  • #3,220
  • Apr 16, 2017 12:59pm Apr 16, 2017 12:59pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} Thanks for the explanation. Now about the Korean war, was that about NK and Communism advancing south? What has that to do with Japan? Was NK a threat to Japan? In WW2, the Japanese were at war with the US, so why would the US want to protect them afterwards? After WW2, Germany were not allowed an army either but no one protected them. I guess they are trying to sneak through an "EU" army now.
The commie north, backed by commie russia, but inparticularly commie china, tried to invade the democratic 'free market' south korea and the USA and UK defended them. It was global political chess, but the USA have been involved since.

The USA and the UK freed Korea and China from the Japanese in WW2, only to be fighting them a few years later - ungrateful sods lol.
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