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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #27,721
  • Apr 13, 2017 11:51am Apr 13, 2017 11:51am
oops forget to tell you all traders.. Happy New year 2560 from Thailand
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There is no way to happiness , happiness is the way.
  • #27,722
  • Apr 13, 2017 12:29pm Apr 13, 2017 12:29pm
Quoting Ockham
{quote} I'm probably more interesting by short term order flow , anyway expectation was still NSH and we were on 61.8% fibo so i took all this 4 strong bull rotation, yes may be seems a lot ! but i like tight sl, and when we almost retest the previous NSH and the market react with a strong bear rotation expectation was almost to re test the 61,8% and probably more depth than this.. Also it is the first time i trade the YM just trying NT8 for the first time as well, i think i cannot turn back to another platform any more...
You can try 6J (JPY/USD) ... short term orderflow is very good IMO. I prefer 6J over YM.

Edit: 144 tick chart seems to be the best from my observations.
  • #27,723
  • Apr 13, 2017 2:15pm Apr 13, 2017 2:15pm
Quoting Ockham
{quote} yes it was my thinking process as well, but it's changing now, first futures cost are much cheaper and tick chart are more realistic from what i can see right now that i try NT, look below the 233 tick chart vs the 5M chart, i probably took any of my entries using the 5m chart, but i will check this one more week to be sure. Of course with a small account as mine and 5$ per point you can forget a 50 pips SL but it's seems to not be an issue with tight SL, of course expectation need also to be realistic. It really depend the way you trade,...
Hi,

I dont understand how futures can be cheaper than CFD, on my case, it costs me 1USD to have a position on US30 ( dow jones index ). In Ger30, the spread is at times 0.50EUR. No commission involved and I can buy 1 contract, 10, 100 or 0.1.

I think you are comparing tick charts and time based charts. I took the trouble of analysing and adapting YM futures 233 tick to my broker feed US30 tick chart ( its aroung 34/55 ticks , on dukascopy seems to be 144 ticks/89 ticks as also on LMAX and directfx CQG FX)

With Ninja Trader with 34 ticks chart, it looks exactly like YM 233 charts. Only difference that I can tell with futures and cfds, is the spread issues ( high news generate huge spreads on cfds, this can be solved on dukascopy which has a wonderfull solution to this ).

I am not gonna argue here that CFD's are as reliable as Futures. Not in any way. But I am arguing that not being profitable on CFDs, you will continue to not be profitable on Futures, and probably lose way more pips.
  • #27,724
  • Apr 13, 2017 2:30pm Apr 13, 2017 2:30pm
Quoting pereiraalex
{quote} Hi, I dont understand how futures can be cheaper than CFD, on my case, it costs me 1USD to have a position on US30 ( dow jones index ). In Ger30, the spread is at times 0.50EUR. No commission involved and I can buy 1 contract, 10, 100 or 0.1. I think you are comparing tick charts and time based charts. I took the trouble of analysing and adapting YM futures 233 tick to my broker feed US30 tick chart ( its aroung 34/55 ticks , on dukascopy seems to be 144 ticks/89 ticks as also on LMAX and directfx CQG FX) With Ninja Trader with 34 ticks...
On CFD if you buy 1 lot, the spread may be 1 (or less). The costs are 1.
If you buy 100 lot CFD you pay 100 (with a spread of 1).

Moreover, on key areas you will see spread increase, which means that your TP will not be triggered or your SL will be hit, although price was not there.
  • #27,725
  • Apr 13, 2017 2:59pm Apr 13, 2017 2:59pm
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} On CFD if you buy 1 lot, the spread may be 1 (or less). The costs are 1. If you buy 100 lot CFD you pay 100 (with a spread of 1). Moreover, on key areas you will see spread increase, which means that your TP will not be triggered or your SL will be hit, although price was not there.
ok, but doesn't futures also have ask/bid ? I have noticed on Mr. Pips streams, its also a 1USD difference most of the time, so you still pay 100USD

LMAX and Dukascopy have a solution for the second problem: make stoploss or target price trigger on "reverse price: ask instead of bid and vice versa". So it can widen as much as it wants, it actually getting away from your stops.
  • #27,726
  • Apr 13, 2017 7:23pm Apr 13, 2017 7:23pm
Quoting Forthebulls
{quote} Wow, Lithium... You would really risk 50 ticks trading the 5 minute chart. Think about that... when should you risk 50 ticks, if you are a position trader who focuses on 4hour or daily charts. Trading the 5 minute chart, wouldn't it be better to cut your losers quickly, say after 10 ticks... knowing that when you get a runner that extends 40+ ticks it is going to erase the one or two losers you took to find that perfect entry? I know everyone says, "don't risk more than 2% of your capital per trade", but are you really expecting to have...
This is a 5 minute chart. And that's a 10 points red line. Can you show me how you can trade with a 10 point risk with Mr pip's method? Maybe I'm not learning correctly on how Mr pip trade.
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  • #27,727
  • Apr 13, 2017 7:32pm Apr 13, 2017 7:32pm
Quoting Forthebulls
{quote} Wow, Lithium... You would really risk 50 ticks trading the 5 minute chart. Think about that... when should you risk 50 ticks, if you are a position trader who focuses on 4hour or daily charts. Trading the 5 minute chart, wouldn't it be better to cut your losers quickly, say after 10 ticks... knowing that when you get a runner that extends 40+ ticks it is going to erase the one or two losers you took to find that perfect entry? I know everyone says, "don't risk more than 2% of your capital per trade", but are you really expecting to have...
Regarding fund size. When I talk about fund size, it means the funds that you can put aside to trade. It's different from the funds you put in the broker account.

I dont think you are suggesting to trade 6 contracts with a 3000 fund that you have right? Especially if you are planning to quit your job and get serious into this full time with only 3000 fund and plan to trade 6 YM contracts. Are you sure Mr pip is teaching this kind of MM?
  • #27,728
  • Apr 13, 2017 7:46pm Apr 13, 2017 7:46pm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_daily_changes_in_the_Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average

i treat trading as a business. I want to make it a sustainable business, and eventually trade for living. So risk management and money management is something I think about very seriously. I think about it more than how much money I'm going to make from trading. The worst thing can happen is to blow my account or my business in a day, and not able to continue.

let me know your thoughts about this. Seriously? Trading 6 YM contracts with $3000 fund? Please enlightened me guys.
  • #27,729
  • Apr 13, 2017 9:58pm Apr 13, 2017 9:58pm
Hello everyone! Mr. P - hope the little one is getting settled and letting you get at least a little sleep. It must be exciting having a baby pip to take care of . I asked a question a few weeks ago just before the birthday that was never answered (understandably) so I'd like to ask again if I could. In the money management worksheet, how do I adjust "minimum" and "delta" according to my starting balance? I have run through a few scenarios that I didn't think behaved like the formula should have dictated. I am on a mac and have seen formulas from windows fail before so not sure if its my data in those fields or bad formulas for mac. Thanks in advance.
  • #27,730
  • Apr 13, 2017 11:19pm Apr 13, 2017 11:19pm
Quoting Ockham
oops forget to tell you all traders.. Happy New year 2560 from Thailand {image}
OMG! I so missed the food at the Saturday Night Market.
  • #27,731
  • Apr 13, 2017 11:56pm Apr 13, 2017 11:56pm
I think you guys got confused about tick charts and time charts. A swing in a 233 tick chart is not the same as a swing in a 5 minute time chart.

There is a big difference, hence the difference in MM also.
  • #27,732
  • Apr 14, 2017 4:18am Apr 14, 2017 4:18am
Quoting lithium1
{quote} Regarding fund size. When I talk about fund size, it means the funds that you can put aside to trade. It's different from the funds you put in the broker account. I dont think you are suggesting to trade 6 contracts with a 3000 fund that you have right? Especially if you are planning to quit your job and get serious into this full time with only 3000 fund and plan to trade 6 YM contracts. Are you sure Mr pip is teaching this kind of MM?
6 contracts on YM would mean 1 point = 30 $. Regardless of the minimum margin required from the brooker/bank, If you SL of 10 points (which is not big) is hit 3 times, when you have lost 900 $ (1/3 of your total capital). Very dangerous.
  • #27,733
  • Apr 14, 2017 4:45am Apr 14, 2017 4:45am
Quoting pereiraalex
{quote} Hi, I dont understand how futures can be cheaper than CFD, on my case, it costs me 1USD to have a position on US30 ( dow jones index ). In Ger30, the spread is at times 0.50EUR. No commission involved and I can buy 1 contract, 10, 100 or 0.1. I think you are comparing tick charts and time based charts. I took the trouble of analysing and adapting YM futures 233 tick to my broker feed US30 tick chart ( its aroung 34/55 ticks , on dukascopy seems to be 144 ticks/89 ticks as also on LMAX and directfx CQG FX) With Ninja Trader with 34 ticks...

hum yes and not, of course if you cannot apply Mr.Pip system on forex-cfd you will not able to apply this method in futures, but trading with small account 2/3k$ on us30 cfd it is almost impossible with most of broker, mine have a spread of 3 on us30 so with small account with which you need to keep tight sl to keep a correct mm risk/trade how you can be profitable ? ok fxcm oanda Ig have a tighter spread but margin are 3 times higher than futures, also with futures you don't have spread and the commission in-out is less than 1tick, without spread execution is much better and you do not have to be scary to hidden your SL from your broker as well, also cfd is a secondary market based on futures market.
But of course if cfd works for you it's great.
There is no way to happiness , happiness is the way.
  • #27,734
  • Apr 14, 2017 4:57am Apr 14, 2017 4:57am
Quoting x3m-PippiN
{quote} You can try 6J (JPY/USD) ... short term orderflow is very good IMO. I prefer 6J over YM. Edit: 144 tick chart seems to be the best from my observations.
Thanks i will start looking at 6J as well, today with us close nothing to do.
There is no way to happiness , happiness is the way.
  • #27,735
  • Apr 14, 2017 5:35am Apr 14, 2017 5:35am
Quoting lithium1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_daily_changes_in_the_Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average i treat trading as a business. I want to make it a sustainable business, and eventually trade for living. So risk management and money management is something I think about very seriously. I think about it more than how much money I'm going to make from trading. The worst thing can happen is to blow my account or my business in a day, and not able to continue. let me know your thoughts about this. Seriously?...
Hi lithium1, we are probably some people in this thread who want to treat trading as a business, of course there is profitable traders around but there also are new traders as me who want to apply Mr.Pip system in a professional way. We also are some are not having/wanting to bring a lot of cash in this business, but do we need so ?
Of course this could be done with forex-cfd everything suits for you, i would like to choose futures market because it is cheaper, it is not a secondary market and because you can use professional tools like NT and getting better execution with no spread.
So question is could we trade futures safely with a small account ? i think yes at 100%, could i do ? answer is far from 100%
What i'm sure is we have to treat trading the same way mr.pip do, we need to have rules and to follow them, in this way you cannot blow your account in one day, i don't tell it is easy and i don't tell i never loose a lot of my balance in one day but could we not be better and try changing ? i think if we all in this thread without indicators and magic arrow may be we are already on a better way ?

On a previous post above you hi light a 10 pips line on a M5 chart in middle of no where, but you know as me if you draw this line on a top or a bottom this will have a completely different signification !

So on YM with 5$ by tick you cannot trade imho with a 3k$ account a 61.8% and place your stop above/below the 100% and risking 40 pips as mr.pip does, but remember the rules of 20 pips/day, why not trading this PRZ with a 1:1 ratio 10 SL 10 TP risking 50$ +com / trade but on YM with the right entry, with all mr.pip teach us i think it could be realistic to win 2 times ten ticks in one trading day on YM, don't you think so ? 20 pips by day will give you in less that 2 months 600pips and you will just double your account, at this time yes this will be possible to trade higher swing.

Regards
Ockham

PS : if some traders found this way realistic and are interesting what about the idea of opening a trading journal in common, to help each others following rules ? this could be test on demo first, may be this kind of journal with some public myfxbook or others could help with following rules and rigour..?!
There is no way to happiness , happiness is the way.
  • #27,736
  • Apr 14, 2017 8:38am Apr 14, 2017 8:38am
UJ 4Hr Trade
Entered Short on Bearish Engulfing Candle at 23.6%. TP set after the 161.8%
Projection Strong, Momentum Strong and Depth shallow.
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Play the hand you were dealt.
  • #27,737
  • Apr 14, 2017 7:47pm Apr 14, 2017 7:47pm
Looks like we have very different opinion and perspective in money management, risk management, lot size management. Did Mr. Pip mentioned this topic before?
  • #27,738
  • Apr 14, 2017 7:49pm Apr 14, 2017 7:49pm
Quoting Maule
UJ 4Hr Trade Entered Short on Bearish Engulfing Candle at 23.6%. TP set after the 161.8% Projection Strong, Momentum Strong and Depth shallow. {image}
Maule, your entry is like chasing breakout?
  • #27,739
  • Apr 14, 2017 7:54pm Apr 14, 2017 7:54pm
https://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2267652&d=1492129258

Oakham. The red line is a 10 points marker. It serve to purpose to show how small is a 10 point risk even in a 5 min swing.

i think the 233 tick swing is between M1 and M5. Depends how is the volume in that day
  • #27,740
  • Apr 14, 2017 9:16pm Apr 14, 2017 9:16pm
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=6346961#post6346961

Here is the post Mr Pip mention about money management.
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