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Billytt Die happy trading e/j daily breakout

  • #16,341
  • Mar 31, 2017 3:59am Mar 31, 2017 3:59am
Quoting Piphunter00
yes please sir! lol I will try to wrap my head around it and demo it as much as I can. although I remember you saying your lady done pretty well using stops before aswell, but hey I wana be a real alien
she has only ever traded dax, but as she is a uni lecturer she is limited to trading only on her days off. sometimes she trades whilst in traffic jam. But like i tell her this is wrong.lol
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #16,342
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:00am Mar 31, 2017 4:00am
Quoting billytt
Quoting Piphunter00
{quote} so you hold that loss in limbo (lets jus say your holding a -10 position on your book) when your next trade comes around and you make +10, close out the limbo and be flat or if by your lucky stars your next trade coughs up more you walk away in profit? am I correct in saying that yes, forget the luck part though... I would rather be flat than lose, it is very rare i end flat. Majority of my 04-00 breaks the range will be approx 25. you will find that smaller ranges approx 15 have a tendency to whip, which we dont
...
What he said...
  • #16,343
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:02am Mar 31, 2017 4:02am
Quoting billytt
Quoting Piphunter00
{quote} so you hold that loss in limbo (lets jus say your holding a -10 position on your book) when your next trade comes around and you make +10, close out the limbo and be flat or if by your lucky stars your next trade coughs up more you walk away in profit? am I correct in saying that yes, forget the luck part though... I would rather be flat than lose, it is very rare i end flat. Majority of my 04-00 breaks the range will be approx 25. you will find that smaller ranges approx 15 have a tendency to whip, which we dont
...
well if your clarifying its as simple as I put it in my question it doesn't seem too daunting.. wait? so you mofos aren't taking any losses?!?!?! blasphemy said the forex jesus!

yeah don't mention the counter counter of the counter just yet. you might scare this young earthling
  • #16,344
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:03am Mar 31, 2017 4:03am
Quoting billytt
{quote} erm erm, i can explain my counter off an 04-00 break if you want.
Yes please from me as well please Billy.

I have spent the last couple of weekends going through this thread and since have been working on the countering. I've been keeping it simple by swapping a stop loss (which I have never really used to be honest - only a mental sl - unless my trade was in profit - and then it is no longer a stop 'loss' anyhow) to a buy/sell order at the same place as where the stop loss would have been. Essentially it means that it gives me more time to decide what to do with the bad trade rather than handing the money straight back to the market (which I hate doing).

Yes if I decide in the end just to close the trade I will lose a little bit extra money (spread & commission) but that is a small price to pay for the time it gives me to make that decision or not.

Edit- you lot can type quicker than me!
  • #16,345
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:04am Mar 31, 2017 4:04am
so using whats jus unfolded in cable. does it match up to what was just explained.

say I countered my -10 at the wick zone If that's what I was planning on doing which gave up +13. but thats irrelevant bekoz i cant get out of that buy position at the wick zone along with the initial sell because I'm still booking that loss. but the h4 low broke again and coughed up +10. so if i had taken that next trigger then booked that +10 i could get out of my buy/sell limbo and say fuck you to a loss?

i know theres a pitfall laying around here somewhere with this countering stuff so spit it out now guys lol!
I'm hearing too much stuff that's too good to be true right now
  • #16,346
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:10am Mar 31, 2017 4:10am
Quoting Pent56
{quote} Yes please from me as well please Billy. I have spent the last couple of weekends going through this thread and since have been working on the countering. I've been keeping it simple by swapping a stop loss (which I have never really used to be honest - only a mental sl - unless my trade was in profit - and then it is no longer a stop 'loss' anyhow) to a buy/sell order at the same place as where the stop loss would have been. Essentially it means that it gives me more time to decide what to do with the bad trade rather than handing the money...
This is actually closer to what I do. Now add a second entry in the direction of profit and that covers the small floating loss. I am looking to close any negative trade as soon as I can and I admit it can be fluid - and also varies if I'm doing this on an H4 Billy-Bar or The Dead Zone (sorry!).
  • #16,347
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:14am Mar 31, 2017 4:14am
Quoting Piphunter00
yes please sir! lol I will try to wrap my head around it and demo it as much as I can. although I remember you saying your lady done pretty well using stops before aswell, but hey I wana be a real alien
example , and i would not of traded it..
Dax 1 hour.
Attached Image

the range was approx 10.
the high was 12259(green bar). i would of entered at 12259 +5 (buffer).
High broke but did not trigger the 12264, it reversed and triggered the 12249. ( no buffer) and it dropped. yay.

OR, i entered long at 12259 it reversed. i now lose -10 if i close trade then short. OR i counter at -10.
if i closed trade at -10 then shorted i would of made %%%%.
The counter would be held at -10 until next trade.
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #16,348
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:16am Mar 31, 2017 4:16am
Billy is away, i have work to do at , guess where?.
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #16,349
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:17am Mar 31, 2017 4:17am
Quoting billytt
{quote} example , and i would not of traded it.. Dax 1 hour. {image} the range was approx 10. the high was 12259(green bar). i would of entered at 12259 +5 (buffer). High broke but did not trigger the 12264, it reversed and triggered the 12249. ( no buffer) and it dropped. yay. OR, i entered long at 12259 it reversed. i now lose -10 if i close trade then short. OR i counter at -10. if i closed trade at -10 then shorted i would of made %%%%. The counter would be held at -10 until next trade.
i pretty much understand it i think. thank you very much for your help guys
  • #16,350
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:18am Mar 31, 2017 4:18am
Quoting Piphunter00
so using whats jus unfolded in cable. does it match up to what was just explained. say I countered my -10 at the wick zone If that's what I was planning on doing which gave up +13. but thats irrelevant bekoz i cant get out of that buy position at the wick zone along with the initial sell because I'm still booking that loss. but the h4 low broke again and coughed up +10. so if i had taken that next trigger then booked that +10 i could get out of my buy/sell limbo and say fuck you to a loss? i know theres a pitfall laying around here somewhere with...
You did, of course, just happen to have picked the one kind of move that does test your patience - the down-a-little-up-a-little-oops-now-we'll-turn-again type of move. In these cases, do a Billy and just let a floating loss run in limbo and it'll never get any bigger. Then come back to it at the next full trigger.

For me, I am looking at one trade negative, a second positive, so overall, probably slightly down but stable. As soon as the next trigger comes, that negative one is closed but remember, as well as opening the new entry, the original good trade is still open, you don't close it, so I have two going positive now and again, we are looking to come out with +5 only locked in here. We don't need it to go very far to get that.
  • #16,351
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:21am Mar 31, 2017 4:21am
Quoting lemercenaire
{quote} You did, of course, just happen to have picked the one kind of move that does test your patience - the down-a-little-up-a-little-oops-now-we'll-turn-again type of move. In these cases, do a Billy and just let a floating loss run in limbo and it'll never get any bigger. Then come back to it at the next full trigger. For me, I am looking at one trade negative, a second positive, so overall, probably slightly down but stable. As soon as the next trigger comes, that negative one is closed but remember, as well as opening the new entry, the original...
next full trigger meaning leave this asshole h4 bar alone and wait till tomorrow? or if your alien like you probably the dead zone? as opposed to taking the next immediate break? if so that does sound more sensible lol in a real life predicament i wouldn't have been so gun ho as to take the next break of the same bar after being pulled around like that.

interesting lem. is this something you specifically do or is this part of the counter? where you said you only close out the loser half of the counter

now my only question is when to consider countering? if using the other end of the bar on h4 bars like this that would be holding a -44 limbo.
  • #16,352
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:34am Mar 31, 2017 4:34am
Quoting Piphunter00
{quote} next full trigger meaning leave this asshole h4 bar alone and wait till tomorrow? or if your alien like you probably the dead zone? as opposed to taking the next immediate break? if so that does sound more sensible lol in a real life predicament i wouldn't have been so gun ho as to take the next break of the same bar after being pulled around like that. interesting lem. is this something you specifically do or is this part of the counter? where you said you only close out the loser half of the counter now my only question is when to consider...
''next full trigger meaning leave this asshole h4 bar alone and wait till tomorrow?''
Yep. Lock up shop and go for lunch.

''or if your alien like you probably the dead zone?''
I treat all the methods I run as completely separate entities, one doesn't influence what I do in another. It is usually extremely unlikely that I will have two pairs overlap though.

''is this something you specifically do''
It came about due to the way The Dead Zone tends to work. It can move real fast and I would obviously always close the losing trade first, which meant I'd naturally find the second one still running and in profit. Why would I close it. In the meantime I have also clicked the entry on the new trigger as a one-click entry so it's quick and easy and off and running, leaving me to stick a hard-stop on the original good trade to make sure it doesn't go rogue on me again.

It gets to the point you do it without even thinking, just looking at plus and minus on the pip-counter. When the plus is bigger than the minus, we're laughing. Also, although I treat the methods as individual beings, if all has gone as it usually does with The Frankenbreak, I will already be playing with profits on the day, so I have a cushion under my butt if things get bumpy.
  • #16,353
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:38am Mar 31, 2017 4:38am
Quoting lemercenaire
{quote} next full trigger meaning leave this asshole h4 bar alone and wait till tomorrow? Yep. Lock up shop and go for lunch. or if your alien like you probably the dead zone? I treat all the methods I run as completely separate entities, one doesn't influence what I do in another. It is usually extremely unlikely that I will have two pairs overlap though. is this something you specifically do It came about due to the way The Dead Zone tends to work. It can move real fast and I would obviously always close the losing trade first, which meant...
does this mean you take the loss on your book until you get of the first positive trade? do you set the hard stop on that first position at the point were it would get you out neutralized from the loss? and anything you take ontop of that along with the new trade is just extras?

I'm going to start practicing on demo using the counters ASAP! definitely want to graduate to that level where it becomes instinctive
  • #16,354
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:40am Mar 31, 2017 4:40am
all in all today was a great example of situations that needed a counter eh, even AU is not having any of it either. broke by 3 pips then straight down
  • #16,355
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:42am Mar 31, 2017 4:42am
You know, I hadn't looked at FF for months until a couple of weeks ago. I had forgotten how awesome this thread is and with the addition of people like Lem it is even better than ever. The fact it is still running and hasn't been twisted by trolls speaks volumes
You will read a lot of crap on this forum (and others as well) implying breakout trading will not make money. For the majority of aspiring traders this will undoubtedly be true, but this is also true for every trading system ever devised regardless of whether it has positive expectancy or not. Being a successful trader requires the kind of resilience that most do not have, it might be simple but it ain't easy ( yes, a cliche I know)
Claudia was spot on, even if you are making money, the boredom can be a real problem and patience really is a virtue in this business (yes, another bloody cliche!)
Billy et al, keep it up. It's a shame you don't have a wider audience, newbies would learn a lot here. Having said that, most would probably dismiss the ideas here after the first run of losers and move on to the next sure thing.
Cheers
Simon
  • #16,356
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:54am Mar 31, 2017 4:54am
Quoting Piphunter00
{quote} does this mean you take the loss on your book until you get of the first positive trade? do you set the hard stop on that first position at the point were it would get you out neutralized from the loss? and anything you take ontop of that along with the new trade is just extras? I'm going to start practicing on demo using the counters ASAP! definitely want to graduate to that level where it becomes instinctive
Yes. Unless you are going to enter the opposite way at the original point of entry, you are always going to have some sort of loss (and you will have costs incurred anyway, so it's impossible not to). All we are doing is looking to lock in and neutralise it as soon as possible.

It really is easier to do than explain, lol.

Practice, practice, practice, as always, is the way to go.

Use demo. Don't worry that you don't have the psychological pressures of it not being real money, that's not what this is about. At this point all you are trying to do is work on your technique. When I am coaching new kickers, I don't have them kick at goalposts for at least the first session, as all I am looking at have them do is groove their motion. Same here.
  • #16,357
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:57am Mar 31, 2017 4:57am
Quoting Piphunter00
all in all today was a great example of situations that needed a counter eh, even AU is not having any of it either. broke by 3 pips then straight down
I have to say, that that is why I barely trade Fridays and almost never the afternoons on Fridays. Frankenbreak excepted, they are generally not worth the effort involved.
  • #16,358
  • Mar 31, 2017 5:01am Mar 31, 2017 5:01am
Quoting lemercenaire
{quote} I have to say, that that is why I barely trade Fridays and almost never the afternoons on Fridays. Frankenbreak excepted, they are generally not worth the effort involved.
Friday and last day of quarter.
  • #16,359
  • Mar 31, 2017 5:02am Mar 31, 2017 5:02am
Quoting Piphunter00
{quote} advice taken. thank you for that pointer I will do just that lem
Not trading today -been to art class.
Saw the above post just now and thought I would post an AU 4 hour chart ( 4am to 8am bars) - Lems "wick zone" looks good here. See if you can decide how many good trades you have bearing in mind your target and that Lem prefers price going into the body ala "Alien" stuff.

Peed off with Dax and the half hour -nasty bite habit - so I have created a folder for testing 5minute bars and the break of the 7:55am bar since Billy has mentioned it.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: AUD+USDH41053.jpg Size: 508 KB
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #16,360
  • Mar 31, 2017 5:07am Mar 31, 2017 5:07am
Quoting simtrad
You know, I hadn't looked at FF for months until a couple of weeks ago. I had forgotten how awesome this thread is and with the addition of people like Lem it is even better than ever. The fact it is still running and hasn't been twisted by trolls speaks volumes You will read a lot of crap on this forum (and others as well) implying breakout trading will not make money. For the majority of aspiring traders this will undoubtedly be true, but this is also true for every trading system ever devised regardless of whether it has positive expectancy or...
Kind words, Simon. Thank you and genuinely appreciated.

I kinda' like that we fly under the radar here .

To throw in another cliche ('coz it's true!) like attracts like and I think you'll find a certain kind of mindset runs in all of Billy's motley crew of trading reprobates.
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