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How to make a living with trading?

  • #121
  • Mar 19, 2017 7:15am Mar 19, 2017 7:15am
Quoting mrhigurashi
To make a decent living from trading you need huge capital, but then if you had such huge capital there are soooo many better options to invest in, why would you invest in forex? Ok for making some extra income or pocket money but a living? Only a bad investor would try and make a living just from forex. Am i wrong? Prove me wrong then!?

Because trading my own strategy, gives me a realistic 25% per year return for about 0.3% capital risk per trade. Take a look at a Break Out Strat I have developed, testing attached. Numbers include 0.6 pip spread trading the EURUSD and also include likely roll over fees and a 1 pip guaranteed stop premium, I trade on IG.com.
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File Type: pdf Zen.pdf   62 KB | 736 downloads
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #122
  • Mar 19, 2017 8:01am Mar 19, 2017 8:01am
TLDR: to make a living out of trading, learn to trade!
  • #123
  • Mar 19, 2017 8:14am Mar 19, 2017 8:14am
Hello all!

It is possible that I am talking out of place in a thread dedicated to discussing trading for a living. But here goes....

Those of you that know me, will know I started trading in 1988 on a 2400 baud BT Prestel terminal. (Yes, there are many young bloods on this forum that will need to look up the meaning of "baud", "BT" and "Prestel" -- it was a long time ago!).

So I have been trading 29 years and consistently profitable for around 20. However, I do NOT trade "for a living".

I had an excellent job with a generous final salary pension (those are long gone now!!) and so I am very comfortably placed financially. But I just LOVE the rough and tumble of the markets and can't stay away!

HOWEVER.... I noted with some humility the comments from a few folk to the effect that that unless you are making 100+% a year you are a "nobody"

Let me tell you now, I am not in that league! My worst year of the last 20 was 11% and the best was 49%.

I trade a 50K (GB pounds) live account, so I am making between 5K and 25K a year. That is great for me. Mrs OD calls them "extra beer vouchers". Most times I use them for nice lunches out (beers and curry) with my friends. Sometimes Mrs OD notes a winning streak and decides to redecorate the sitting room or something....

But the point is, I guess, I don't NEED to trade for a living, so I feel no pressure. I think that if you HAVE to trade to put bread on the table, the pressure could screw you up mentally.

Anyway, I am happy with my returns -- they are a damned site better than you can get anywhere else!

Good trading and kind regards,

Old Dog
.
  • #124
  • Mar 19, 2017 8:28am Mar 19, 2017 8:28am
Quoting COGSx86
{quote} TopStep is not a scam. They are a group of traders. Danny Riley has a youtube channel and I have him on facebook. Great guy, likes to help other traders. I have never used their service, but they arent a scam.
An odd statement....
  • #125
  • Mar 19, 2017 9:18am Mar 19, 2017 9:18am
Quoting mrhigurashi
{quote} An odd statement....

You know what, I was wrong, I was thinking of "MrTopStep" not Topstep. During my reply I was going to link there stuff and realized I made a mistake, sorry about that.

MrTopStep is a CME floor traders group, who do coaching and mentor-ships. These guys are pro traders. As for the "TopStep" that is something else Im not familiar with.


My apologize.

Pretty cool youtube channel, example they had an hour long interview with Marty Schwartz.......the legend.

https://mrtopstep.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/mrtopstepgroup
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #126
  • Mar 19, 2017 9:52am Mar 19, 2017 9:52am
Consistency in trading and compound interests is all you need. Lets say you start with 50K account + 3 years of living expenses covered. You manage to average 40 % profit per year (which is very, very good result). So your trading account has grown to 140K after 3 years and now you can start withdrawing 50% of your profits for living (28K) and leave 50% to further grow your account. This is pure theory as your trading results will vary significantly from 40 % yearly average, but it can be done, all you have to do is to be top notch trader and don't have very high standard of living demands.
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  • #127
  • Mar 19, 2017 10:06am Mar 19, 2017 10:06am
Quoting guybaker
Because trading my own strategy, gives me a realistic 25% per year return for about 0.3% capital risk per trade.
Exactly, or even more (Depending on the strategy)...

@mrhigurashi : What are the better options (Just out of curiosity) ? I may switch
"Men Who Can Both Be Right & Sit Tight Are Uncommon" ~ Jesse Livermore
  • #128
  • Mar 19, 2017 10:14am Mar 19, 2017 10:14am
Quoting michisuperfr
{quote} Exactly, or even more (Depending on the strategy)... @mrhigurashi : What are the better options (Just out of curiosity) ? I may switch
Better options? Sorry I do not understand the question...
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #129
  • Mar 19, 2017 10:20am Mar 19, 2017 10:20am
Quoting tunera
TLDR: to make a living out of trading, learn to trade!
  • #130
  • Mar 19, 2017 10:41am Mar 19, 2017 10:41am
Quoting Old_Dog
noted with some humility the comments from a few folk to the effect that that unless you are making 100+% a year you are a "nobody" Let me tell you now, I am not in that league! My worst year of the last 20 was 11% and the best was 49%. I trade a 50K (GB pounds) live account, so I am making between 5K and 25K a year.
There are not that many traders that make consistently 100% per year, unless they're prepared to go through large drawdowns and take risks.


Quoting Old_Dog
But the point is, I guess, I don't NEED to trade for a living, so I feel no pressure. I think that if you HAVE to trade to put bread on the table, the pressure could screw you up mentally. Anyway, I am happy with my returns -- they are a damned site better than you can get anywhere else! Good trading and kind regards, Old Dog .
Youre right, if one needs to trade for a living without having any other financial safety net, it will screw up majority of people, especially if theyre undercapitalised.
Don't focus on making money; focus on protecting what you have. Tudor Jones
  • #131
  • Mar 19, 2017 11:07am Mar 19, 2017 11:07am
Does any have experience with signal provider services? It would be nice to have second income from trading. Which one is best to use if you are a signal provider? I'm looking at https://www.mql5.com/en/articles/618

How about Zulutrade etc.? Is it difficult to get subscribers if you have low max drawdown (cca 8-13%) but also relatively low yearly profit (cca 20-60 %)? As I see it most "top" traders with lots of subscribers there have huge profits but also unsustainable max drawdowns in the long run. No pro trader trades this way.
  • #133
  • Mar 19, 2017 11:29am Mar 19, 2017 11:29am
Every Forex forum is filled with some pessimists. All that we need is for individual to focus on himself and learning. Let no one darken your dream. We don't need to live on our trading account at the beginning of our career. You can grow your micro account, slowly and steadily as long you're not totally dependent on it yet.
Make all mistakes in demo and rain in pips in live account
9jatrader All Time Return: 15.7%
  • #134
  • Mar 19, 2017 11:56am Mar 19, 2017 11:56am
Quoting Tom81
Does any have experience with signal provider services? It would be nice to have second income from trading. Which one is best to use if you are a signal provider? I'm looking at https://www.mql5.com/en/articles/618 How about Zulutrade etc.? Is it difficult to get subscribers if you have low max drawdown (cca 8-13%) but also relatively low yearly profit (cca 20-60 %)? As I see it most "top" traders with lots of subscribers there have huge profits but also unsustainable max drawdowns in the long run. No pro trader...
All commercial signals and trade/copy services provided by third parties are garbage! Too many technical problems on top of poor software performance.
And you have to give away 20% of your profits.....
With these platforms there's ALWAYS abnormal slippage and delays. The subscribers almost never replicate the trades from the master account exactly. Often the provider makes money, while the subscribers lose money on the same trade. The execution time delay between signal and subscriber should be no more than 100 milliseconds.
With most(all) popular copy platforms this delay is in the range of 2000 - 5000 milliseconds at best! Absolutely ridiculous....
Zulutrade and eToro are the worst, but the others are not far behind.

Based on my experience with similar projects, I can tell you that If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself!
Forget about third parties. Cut the middle man, and make your own website, where you can publish your service!
Create your own trade copier software and run the whole system in remote VPS in London.
This way you can have the whole operation under control. You have to eliminate all delays and slippage.
The subscribers will connect and log in their accounts using the VPS through your website. This is as good as it gets.
  • #135
  • Mar 19, 2017 12:15pm Mar 19, 2017 12:15pm
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} All commercial signals and trade/copy services provided by third parties are garbage! Too many technical problems on top of poor software performance. And you have to give away 20% of your profits..... With these platforms there's ALWAYS abnormal slippage and delays. The subscribers almost never replicate the trades from the master account exactly. Often the provider makes money, while the subscribers lose money on the same trade. The execution time delay between signal and subscriber should be no more than 100 milliseconds. With most(all)...
Thank you for your advice. I don't have a problem with delays as my average trade lasts a day (25 hours) on average and my average win is 151.54 pips and average loss -61.87 pips, so I don't care if subscriber gets a signal 5.000 ms or more later, price usually doesn't change that much in a few seconds. If I would be HFT or scalper latency would be very important, I understand that.
  • #136
  • Mar 19, 2017 2:02pm Mar 19, 2017 2:02pm
Maybe you need to watch this pirhanna,
Inserted Video
It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
  • #137
  • Mar 19, 2017 6:23pm Mar 19, 2017 6:23pm
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} The subscribers will connect and log in their accounts using the VPS through your website.
Very interesting. Could you please expand on the highlighted part of your sentence? Many thanks in advance.
mind over matter
  • #138
  • Mar 19, 2017 6:55pm Mar 19, 2017 6:55pm
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} All commercial signals and trade/copy services provided by third parties are garbage! Too many technical problems on top of poor software performance. And you have to give away 20% of your profits..... With these platforms there's ALWAYS abnormal slippage and delays. The subscribers almost never replicate the trades from the master account exactly. Often the provider makes money, while the subscribers lose money on the same trade. The execution time delay between signal and subscriber should be no more than 100 milliseconds. With most(all)...
Fast VPS server, commercial signal copy host software (depending on client numbers connected, it costs several grands), website management, member subscription management, answering all the customer quires, getting business license, tax, .... It will cost huge money and you won't be able to focus on trading itself unless you hire an assistant. I wanted to be a trader to avoid all the hassles involving people and business. Trading is lonely business and why people love it. That being said, it may not be an attractive choice to most traders I think.... Yes, I agree most followers cannot make money from third-party copying services. Even so, efficiency is really low.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #139
  • Mar 19, 2017 7:03pm Mar 19, 2017 7:03pm
Quoting albypaul
{quote} The actual account is a 1000:1 leverage ENC Demo account of $200 to show you that yes you can make money even from a small deposit of $200. You just have to be patient. To all that wish to use this indicator here is a video on how to use it https://youtu.be/mN-txE3mkYg
Sound quality is very bad on that video. Can you upload again?
  • #140
  • Mar 19, 2017 7:08pm Mar 19, 2017 7:08pm
Quoting albypaul
How the entry and exits work : When you see a signal on it's own being an Arrow ,this Arrow becomes the entry i have actual marked the entries and exits with a DodgerBlue and Yellow line and a few red crosses for exits in the second window. When you see gaps between the arrow indicators they are normally good indications of an entry. Not all signals will be entry or exit but just wait for the signals. I hope that answers your questions. {image} Here's the file guys have fun.... {file}
A little more explanation, please.
-- What do you mean by "gaps between the arrow indicators?"
-- When you say "not all signals will be entry or exit but just wait for the signals," which signals are good and which are to be ignored?
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