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How to make a living with trading?

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 17, 2017 6:40am Mar 17, 2017 6:40am
Hi,

I've been trading for few years now and being "consistantly profitable" is not the biggest problem I have. The problem I have is with low trading capital. Some friends advised me to open a small live pamm account and connect it with trade explorer, myfxbook, fxstat, ... to prove that I can trade. So I did that a few months ago. As I was told getting the funds for consistant traders shouldn't be a problem ("the money will find you if you are good" I was told, hehe). But apparently it is a problem (at least for me) because I don't even know what to do now. I'm no expert in marketing so I don't know how to promote myself (or where) as money manager or something like that.

My goal is not to become a millionare over night, I just want to make a decent living just with trading. I wouldn't mind becoming an institutional trader if somene offered me that kind of job or a chance. But as I said, I don't know where to turn for someone to notice me at least and gave me a chance to prove it. Are there any firms or people who search for traders like me (low budget retail trader) that I can turn to? Or do I first have to make millions to get noticed? How much history do I need to prove that Im legit? And to who can I show it?

I already gave up the idea that someone will notice me here on FF, Myfxbook or Fxstat because of all the scam accounts (I suspect) with shady unregulated brokers. Apparently it is easy to fake the results. So a lot of accounts out there look like Warren Buffett is an amateur. I can't compete with scam accounts.

Anyone here with some experience from this? Probably I'm not the only one with this problem.
For now I trade full-time with my own funds. But building a budget and paying the bills at the same time with low capital is hard.

Any advice is very appreciated.
Happy trading guys.
  • #2
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:06am Mar 17, 2017 7:06am
I suggest you maintain your independence and not look for outside capital.
If you are indeed "consistently profitable" it is now an issue of compounding based on your profits.
If you are trading with a suitable reward to risk ratio (like 6:1) you can compound without risking any of your capital.
If you have an RR of 6:1 and 4 out of 6 trades are positive, you can consider yourself consistently profitable.
You need to do the sums yourself as you know your RR and percentage of profitable trades.
eg., for every 150 pips of profit, you can afford to double your trade size.
The money will take care of itself.
Do not be put off by people who say that this is too scarey. You are only risking some of the profit from previous trades - not your capital.
  • #3
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:25am Mar 17, 2017 7:25am
Quoting PiranoTrader
Hi, I've been trading for few years now and being "consistantly profitable" is not the biggest problem I have. The problem I have is with low trading capital. Some friends advised me to open a small live pamm account and connect it with trade explorer, myfxbook, fxstat, ... to prove that I can trade. So I did that a few months ago. As I was told getting the funds for consistant traders shouldn't be a problem ("the money will find you if you are good" I was told, hehe). But apparently it is a problem (at least for me) because I don't even know what...
There are 3 ways to raise capital for "trade for a living".

1) what you are doing already, just open a journal thread and post your trades, if you are good some big investor will notice and PM you one day or another (very unlikely, but possible).

2) just create your capital by going high-risk on a small account for a few months, make a 5.000-10.000% profit and here it is your capital (difficult, but possible).

3) Pamm, like you doing already.
I am not a Pamm expert, so take what im going to write as a valueless opinion:

Big investors aren't going to fund you millions of usd easily (you would need to have a good 2-3 years trackrecord for that).

Small investors are the opposite, they want to see big returns (big risk too), if you make 3% profit in one month nobody is going to get excited, you will have to aim to make 50-100% a month in order to excite small investors..!

I see you are right now in the middle, too much new for Big investors, too much boring for small investors.


Again that's just my inexperienced opinion so it may be totally wrong!
I'm starting a Pamm account too from a few days, so i made a lot of thinking about this, and that's it.


Good luck
  • #4
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:26am Mar 17, 2017 7:26am
Quoting Aich
I suggest you maintain your independence and not look for outside capital. If you are indeed "consistently profitable" it is now an issue of compounding based on your profits. If you are trading with a suitable reward to risk ratio (like 6:1) you can compound without risking any of your capital. If you have an RR of 6:1 and 4 out of 6 trades are positive, you can consider yourself consistently profitable. You need to do the sums yourself as you know your RR and percentage of profitable trades. eg., for every 150 pips of profit, you can afford to...

Thank you for advice.
Im not so much scared risking my own capital. But the problem is the size of it. I know that i can grow my account. But still i have to pay the bills every month so I have to withdraw the profit (or most of it at least) in any case. With that low budget i can't afford to do both (grow and withdraw) at the same time. There is simply not enough.
If i wanted to make more money with the same budget I would have to over-risk and that is not an option.
  • #5
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:43am Mar 17, 2017 7:43am
try Topsteptrader, a trading combine test costs 120usd the cheapest for one time if you pass, then they found you with 30k
  • #6
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:44am Mar 17, 2017 7:44am
Mr. Tunera had said it all. Hard to add anything on top of that.

Just a small addition from me. Master how to trade $1,000 accounts. I have never seen a signal provider or a PAMM manager who can handle that. They are all lame with small money...

The biggest challenge of the 1k account is the low DD (around or below 10%). The profit might be average (5-10% monthly).

There is not a single provider who can offer this, at the moment.

Master that, and you will be bathing in cash...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #7
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:49am Mar 17, 2017 7:49am
Quoting tunera
{quote} There are 3 ways to raise capital for "trade for a living". 1) what you are doing already, just open a journal thread and post your trades, if you are good some big investor will notice and PM you one day or another (very unlikely, but possible). 2) just create your capital by going high-risk on a small account for a few months, make a 5.000-10.000% profit and here it is your capital (difficult, but possible). 3) Pamm, like you doing already. I am not a Pamm expert, so take what im going to write as a valueless opinion: Big investors aren't...

Thanks man. Any opinion is appreciated.

But risking too much means just waiting to get destroyed. It happens sooner or later. So that way im even less interesting for some serious investors and can forget about making 2 - 3 yr history too. Also I don't think that would work with small investors because there is simply too much traders who are high-risk and high/fast profit (and sudden death) oriented for me to have an edge. Risking too much is not an option for me.

You're right, im apparently really somewhere in the middle now - too fresh for serious investors and too boring for small investors. That is why i tried with this pamm account, because it can be interesting also for smaller clients. But as i said. You can't get noticed because every scam account has better results and draws all the attention.
That means im fucked. Probably i'll have to quit trading and get a job if i don't make it. That means all my time i spent trading was wasted. Shit, sometimes life is really unfair. Some people just shitting money, the rest of us will stay 9 to 5 slaves.
  • #8
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:51am Mar 17, 2017 7:51am
Quoting andddres1
try Topsteptrader, a trading combine test costs 120usd the cheapest for one time if you pass, then they found you with 30k
Will definetly have a look. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
  • #9
  • Mar 17, 2017 7:59am Mar 17, 2017 7:59am
Get a job and trade part time. You do far better in trading if you don't have to trade to survive.

Trade safe and prosper.

KP

Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Thanks man. Any opinion is appreciated. But risking too much means just waiting to get destroyed. It happens sooner or later. So that way im even less interesting for some serious investors and can forget about making 2 - 3 yr history too. Also I don't think that would work with small investors because there is simply too much traders who are high-risk and high/fast profit (and sudden death) oriented for me to have an edge. Risking too much is not an option for me. You're right, im apparently really somewhere in the middle now - too fresh...
Do your homework, follow the footprints of smart money
  • #10
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:06am Mar 17, 2017 8:06am
Quoting MoneyZilla
Mr. Tunera had said it all. Hard to add anything on top of that. Just a small addition from me. Master how to trade $1,000 accounts. I have never seen a signal provider or a PAMM manager who can handle that. They are all lame with small money... The biggest challenge of the 1k account is the low DD (around or below 10%). The profit might be average (5-10% monthly). There is not a single provider who can offer this, at the moment. Master that, and you will be bathing in cash...
Hehehe, managing small account is all i know I can't afford big account. Never could, except demo
Well, my account minimum is not 1k but 2k for relatively safe trading (like in my trade explorer). Less than 2k would be probably too risky. But i think that is stil affordable for smaller investors if someone would even notice. That is the problem, how to even get noticed.
With 2k account I can lower the risk by growing it and leaving prifits. I would advise max account at 10k and taking all the profits over that amount.
  • #11
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:23am Mar 17, 2017 8:23am
Quoting KeenPips
Get a job and trade part time. You do far better in trading if you don't have to trade to survive. Trade safe and prosper. KP {quote}
Trading is a full-time job as i see it. And a hard job it is if you want to have some results on a longer run. I tried to combine job and trading in the beggining but results came only after I gave trading 100% of my focus.
If I can't focus only on trading then it's a hobby. I rather have other stress-free and cheaper hobbies
  • #12
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:31am Mar 17, 2017 8:31am
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Less than 2k would be probably too risky.
I know from a broker, most traders trade BELOW 1k accounts. Like over 90% are trading below 1k accounts. The guys with 10k or higher are rare animals. Master 1k, if you want quantity of followers...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #13
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:37am Mar 17, 2017 8:37am
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Trading is a full-time job as i see it. And a hard job it is if you want to have some results on a longer run. I tried to combine job and trading in the beggining but results came only after I gave trading 100% of my focus. If I can't focus only on trading then it's a hobby. I rather have other stress-free and cheaper hobbies
Depends on your personality and lifestyle. I know some traders who trade part time and are doing really well in trading.

Trade safe and prosper.

KP
Do your homework, follow the footprints of smart money
  • #14
  • Edited Mar 18, 2017 7:57am Mar 17, 2017 8:45am | Edited Mar 18, 2017 7:57am
Hello All My Name Is Albert Poulis and i just wanted to say hi.
To be HONEST i mean that with respect to all .You can make a great living with Forex and if you make your own Indicators and EA's even better i tend to stay a way from the EA's for my own reasons.Here is my trading strategy that i have been using for a while now and i have been told that i am an idiot and all the cherry toppings on top but you know what i have made money from this and i call it 5 line RSI.

  1. 6 RSI LimeGreen.
  2. 8 RSI Lime.
  3. 10 RSI DodgerBlue also Flat line(trend).
  4. 12 RSI OrangeRed.
  5. 14 RSI Red.

Concept : if the 6 RSI grows above the 14 RSI it is a buy and vicea versa.

It works like a RSI Cross over as well as an entry and exit point which you will see in the picture you will also see that i used a demo for the picture and you will see that i was profiting form this apparently lame but powerful Indicator .You make your own minds up.

Please to those that read this i am not being sarcastic i have just had enough of people who tell me how to trade if it works leave it alone and if i have offended any person i apologise with a lot of respect.

Okay for those who want to know why i have added the RSI 8,10 and 12 in the mix is because they are there to help analyse the consolidation,range and trend i know you guys probably think well that's useless but trust me it comes in handy.
How the entry and exits work :

  1. When you see a signal on it's own being an Arrow ,this Arrow becomes the entry i have actual marked the entries and exits with a DodgerBlue and Yellow line and a few red crosses for exits in the second window.
  2. When you see gaps between the arrow indicators they are normally good indications of an entry.
  3. Not all signals will be entry or exit but just wait for the signals.

I hope that answers your questions.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: FiveLine RSI.jpg Size: 147 KB

Here's the file guys have fun....
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip Al's_5_LINE_RSI (2).zip   11 KB | 1,291 downloads
  • #15
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:54am Mar 17, 2017 8:54am
Quoting KeenPips
{quote} Depends on your personality and lifestyle. I know some traders who trade part time and are doing really well in trading. Trade safe and prosper. KP
I agree.
I personally couldn't do it just in my spare time. Maybe now i could since i have more experience. But if I want to manage money it probably wouldn't be fair to my clients if im not 100% with them.
Hehe, but as it seems that will not happen anyway
  • #16
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:56am Mar 17, 2017 8:56am
Quoting PiranoTrader
Hi, I've been trading for few years now and being "consistantly profitable" is not the biggest problem I have. The problem I have is with low trading capital. Some friends advised me to open a small live pamm account and connect it with trade explorer, myfxbook, fxstat, ... to prove that I can trade. So I did that a few months ago. As I was told getting the funds for consistant traders shouldn't be a problem ("the money will find you if you are good" I was told, hehe). But apparently it is a problem (at least for me) because I don't even know what...

You are making 10% a month? Just keep doing what you are doing and compound your results, you won't need external investors. You do the math...starting from 3000 Euro if you could do a steady 10% a month, you'll have 1,000,000 in five years or so.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #17
  • Mar 17, 2017 8:57am Mar 17, 2017 8:57am
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} I agree. I personally couldn't do it just in my spare time. Maybe now i could since i have more experience. But if I want to manage money it probably wouldn't be fair to my clients if im not 100% with them. Hehe, but as it seems that will not happen anyway
Remember that Winners never Quit, and Quitters never Win!
  • #18
  • Edited 9:48am Mar 17, 2017 9:22am | Edited 9:48am
If you want to be full time trader your trading account should not be smaller than 50K and you should have 20-30K spare money to cover your living expenses while growing your account to 100K or more. Then you can start thinking of living from trading. Stop dreaming of making consistent 100% yearly profit, 40 % yearly profit is top notch result, every investment bank/hedge fund would want to employ you, even 20 % is very respectable.
  • #19
  • Mar 17, 2017 9:23am Mar 17, 2017 9:23am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} I know from a broker, most traders trade BELOW 1k accounts. Like over 90% are trading below 1k accounts. The guys with 10k or higher are rare animals. Master 1k, if you want quantity of followers...
Actually, when I think about it, maybe this is a possible option for smaller investors. Because if I understand pamm account correctly all the funds from all the clients (and my own on main account) are combined. That would mean I can trade like I had a bigger account on my onwn and only the profits are divided at the end of each month.
I must ask my broker how exactly this work or wait for my first client But the main problem is still how to get noticed. Even smaller investors cant find me among all the Soros's on myfxbook or similar sites
  • #20
  • Mar 17, 2017 9:43am Mar 17, 2017 9:43am
All Soros' are jokers. Short lived.

Read this article. You will find it disturbing. This is the best one can get online by far...

Looking at Forex Retail Champions: The best live trading, verified and long term myFXbook trading account results
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
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