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  • #2,521
  • Mar 6, 2017 10:57am Mar 6, 2017 10:57am
It is not racist to send the Ishamaelites home. It is a matter of biblical instruction.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,522
  • Mar 6, 2017 11:09am Mar 6, 2017 11:09am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I did not understand it because I presumed that your governments had limits set. So I turned to where, as a liberal, I get my limits. They are all biblical. Every one of them. I fail to understand why at some point your governments have not done the will of the people. You live in democracy as we do. While I think that Trump is a buffoon, he was elected duly by this country. They want a wall. They want to maintain the way of life that we enjoy. We have those limits because we are a Christian nation, albeit a very imperfect one. No way should...
Point accepted. What is clear is the people who are advocating open border policies, welcoming extreme cultural changes etc do that under the banner of liberalism. I think that can't be disputed. So whilst many here might say idiot liberals etc It is not personal and you obviously identify as liberal but clearly don't share the same views as the loons who want to welcome in the "Hordes of people who are sworn enemies".
Again I can't comment as to whether every christian is a liberal as have no religious leanings at all. Have never felt the need for it and think in many respects without it, there would likely be a little less conflict perhaps.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #2,523
  • Mar 6, 2017 11:30am Mar 6, 2017 11:30am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Hitler, Trump, Obama, and Farange had one common name in the Bible. Caesar. Until nations who claim to be "under God" understand that. Well we get what we get. The radical left and the radical right are two sides of the same coin. All Christians who have read even one gospel are liberals by nature.
J, I'm also a Christian. I don't have a clue what you are getting at. Though Obama had ideas of grandeur and loved the idea of being a "king", how do you justify putting Trump and Farage in a sentence comparing them to Hitler. Would be interesting discussing how you associate liberalism with Christianity over a glass of good wine. Clinton's, Obama's, Reed, Pelosi, Schumer, Soros all good liberals - progressives. You identify with that??
Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #2,524
  • Mar 6, 2017 11:38am Mar 6, 2017 11:38am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} While I think that Trump is a buffoon
Just so I understand where all this is going -- I voted for Trump. Who did you vote for?
Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #2,526
  • Mar 6, 2017 2:05pm Mar 6, 2017 2:05pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} The God of Abraham. Are there any governments who do not invoke God? {quote} Then I do not feel bad for them. Any nations who claims itself to be a Christian nation has to know what the bible says about the Ishmaelites. At no point do they plan to assimilate. It is right there in black and white if the nation claims itself to be Christian.
Is that not insulting to people of other faiths who have other gods and to people who are not religious? The UK is a free, multi faith country and as a liberal, I am surprised you do not preach tolerance. Actually, here we consider it fine to believe in whatever you want or not at all, so long as you do not ram it down others' throats or hinder their lives in any way.
  • #2,527
  • Mar 6, 2017 11:17pm Mar 6, 2017 11:17pm
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Just so I understand where all this is going -- I voted for Trump. Who did you vote for?
I voted for Gary Johnson. Hillary is a corporatist, and Trump just lied to the rust belt saying he would bring back jobs to industries decimated by automation. So I voted for the libertarian. I seem to be doing that more and more.

Quoting jen101
Hidden
I have not seen where it says for Muslims to kill all nonbelievers. I keep asking for this passage from other debaters but no one can seen to find it.

Quoting jarhead
{quote} J, I'm also a Christian. I don't have a clue what you are getting at. Though Obama had ideas of grandeur and loved the idea of being a "king", how do you justify putting Trump and Farage in a sentence comparing them to Hitler. Would be interesting discussing how you associate liberalism with Christianity over a glass of good wine. Clinton's, Obama's, Reed, Pelosi, Schumer, Soros all good liberals - progressives. You identify with that??
I think most people confuse liberalism with libertinism. They are terrible liberals. The ends do not ever justify the means to a good liberal. A libertine is quite another matter.

Quoting jen101
{quote} Is that not insulting to people of other faiths who have other gods and to people who are not religious? The UK is a free, multi faith country and as a liberal, I am surprised you do not preach tolerance. Actually, here we consider it fine to believe in whatever you want or not at all, so long as you do not ram it down others' throats or hinder their lives in any way.
When the UK official invokes God, in a public speech, do you think they are talking about Bhuddah?

I do preach tolerance. But all things have structure. It is fine by me if you want to hear a hijab due to your faith. It is not fine by me if there are Sharia patrols on the streets of my city. Every faith has tenets that define that faith. If the UK is a secular nation that is just fine, but the liberals there have definitely confused liberalism with libertinism.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,529
  • Mar 7, 2017 1:50am Mar 7, 2017 1:50am
Quoting Devauxt
Hidden
I googled for longer than 30 seconds. And I found that many of these passages are within a specific context. But if religion is not your thing, then I can easily understand why these passages can be stripped of context and used for a political agenda. Atheists love to do that with the bible as well.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,530
  • Mar 7, 2017 1:55am Mar 7, 2017 1:55am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} not seen where it says for Muslims to kill all nonbelievers. I keep asking for this passage from other debaters but no one can seen to find it. {quote}.
J watch vid post 2492 this thread, it's only short. There are many examples in the hadith and quran, the press like to isolate bits that suit their narrative, then leave great chunks behind.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #2,532
  • Mar 7, 2017 2:10am Mar 7, 2017 2:10am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I googled for longer than 30 seconds. And I found that many of these passages are within a specific context. But if religion is not your thing, then I can easily understand why these passages can be stripped of context and used for a political agenda. Atheists love to do that with the bible as well.
I don't believe any of the passages I posted have been striped of context. It would be difficult to see how they could be stripped of context. If you need another 20 or 30 such passages l, let me know. They are all of the same theme, death, violence and sexual slavery to non believers
  • #2,533
  • Mar 7, 2017 2:14am Mar 7, 2017 2:14am
Quoting Stu Effex
Hidden
One of my favourites - Tommy Robinson: The Oscars lied about Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkOPHu1w73Q
  • #2,534
  • Mar 7, 2017 2:30am Mar 7, 2017 2:30am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} One of my favourites - Tommy Robinson: The Oscars lied about Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkOPHu1w73Q
Yes Dev good one that's one I referring JMN to at post 2492
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #2,535
  • Mar 7, 2017 2:49am Mar 7, 2017 2:49am
Quoting jmn5611
When the UK official invokes God, in a public speech, do you think they are talking about Bhuddah? I do preach tolerance. But all things have structure. It is fine by me if you want to hear a hijab due to your faith. It is not fine by me if there are Sharia patrols on the streets of my city. Every faith has tenets that define that faith. If the UK is a secular nation that is just fine, but the liberals there have definitely confused liberalism with libertinism.
I may be wrong, but I do not recall our politicians referencing God in any speeches. Also, they would be sensitive to the UK being a multi faith country. Your politicians do it a lot, I have noticed, but here we are more secular.
  • #2,536
  • Mar 7, 2017 2:53am Mar 7, 2017 2:53am
Quoting jen101
{quote} I may be wrong, but I do not recall our politicians referencing God in any speeches. Also, they would be sensitive to the UK being a multi faith country. Your politicians do it a lot, I have noticed, but here we are more secular.
and yet in the USA, The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
  • #2,537
  • Mar 7, 2017 3:21am Mar 7, 2017 3:21am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I googled for longer than 30 seconds. And I found that many of these passages are within a specific context. But if religion is not your thing, then I can easily understand why these passages can be stripped of context and used for a political agenda. Atheists love to do that with the bible as well.
There is only one way to safety argue and that is to arm oneself with sufficient knowledge. Yes there is context to all the verses but it takes a wise and educated man understand that. Within the Bible there are many places where there are explicit instructions of the type "..<do this>.." and also "..<do not do this>..". In the Quran there are less obvious directions and twists caused by translation. Therefore I offer...

http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html

The basis for all religions is to provide a framework of rules and behaviours which cause a regulated and tolerant society to be instantiated. A society where there is room for all to live their lives in harmony. Also, and this is the weakness of religion, efforts were made to ascribe meaning to certain events which were unexplainable at the time. The Greeks and Romans (?) believed lightning and storms were evidence of God's displeasure. Today we understand the weather and the process which produces lightning, and thus opportunity has been provided for those who seek to pour scorn on ancient writings.

With all religions there are those who seek to find justification for their own ends by using the supporting documents. For the life of me I cannot think of how some Catholic priests found in the Bible any support for their actions.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #2,538
  • Edited 5:39am Mar 7, 2017 4:06am | Edited 5:39am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Hitler, Trump, Obama, and Farange had one common name in the Bible. Caesar. Until nations who claim to be "under God" understand that. Well we get what we get. The radical left and the radical right are two sides of the same coin. All Christians who have read even one gospel are liberals by nature.
We can not compare Hitler with Trump (so far) & Co., because their hands are not "bloody" in this sense.
However there is an "authority" which can easily be compared with "phenomenon of Hitler" and this is Rome - better said The Vatican.
They are both the best examples of how were "holy grounds" used for mass enslavement and destruction.
Hitler and Cesar on the other side were "self-styled gods". Religion itself can not be liberal (even not Buddhism) but has been too often used by "god's elites" to enslave "mortals".
perhaps my English is not perfect - but I know the Jungle
  • #2,539
  • Mar 7, 2017 4:22am Mar 7, 2017 4:22am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} There is only one way to safety argue and that is to arm oneself with sufficient knowledge. Yes there is context to all the verses but it takes a wise and educated man understand that. Within the Bible there are many places where there are explicit instructions of the type "..<do this>.." and also "..<do not do this>..". In the Quran there are less obvious directions and twists caused by translation. Therefore I offer... http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html The basis for all religions is to provide a framework...

Because often it wasn't there. For example, Hell. There is not one mention of hell or any red devil with horns and a pitchfork anywhere in the text. Religion on it's face is a structure through which organized societies can function, as you mentioned.

Quoting Devauxt
{quote} and yet in the USA, The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
I take no argument with that one Devauxt. Many of us running around shouting about the Constitution have never actually read the thing.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #2,540
  • Mar 7, 2017 4:39am Mar 7, 2017 4:39am
Quoting SickOfScam
{quote} We can not compare Hitler with Trump (so far) & Co., because their hands are not "bloody" in this sense. However there is an "authority" which can easily be compared with "phenomenon of Hitler" and this is Rome - better said The Vatican. They are both the best indicators of how were "holy grounds" used for mass enslavement and destruction. Hitler and Cesar on the other side were "self-styled gods". Religion itself can not be liberal (even not Buddhism) but has been too often used by "god's elites" to enslave "mortals".
I really am having trouble in understanding what you are saying here, but the bit that seemed more cogent than the rest was way in which you equate the Vatican (Catholicism) with Nazism. For me that is a streach
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