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  • #1,841
  • Edited 8:31am Feb 5, 2017 8:20am | Edited 8:31am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eoIeZhRt7vg&ebc=ANyPxKqfccpjlr8TCMfOdwqNVeHJ1DC5T653al6tVwvc5cdL-TBl6RTfxmtRrjX5YJ87nPLBdAZY

here CNN claiming the UC Berkeley riots, which were over a controversial speaker, was a result of 'secret' Trump rioters.

pretty sure this is also 'fake news' or 'alternative facts'. Which would make CNN hypocites.

incidentally, these social justice warriors, who claim to be liberal, for democracy and against 'facists' are, by preventing Milo from speaking, undermining one of the pillars of democracy - freedom of speech.
  • #1,842
  • Feb 5, 2017 8:40am Feb 5, 2017 8:40am
Quoting verv
{quote} Whilst I agree with some of the things you said there is also a contradiction. You said they must "respect the secularism" but then you say the "French are right to ban it". A secular society that bans people from wearing the clothes of their choosing? - that doesn't sound very 'secular'. Is it right to introduce regressive legislation that prevents a person from wearing certain clothes? And would that amount to discrimination against Muslims that already have rights as a British citizenship in this country? I'm not very comfortable with...
The French explanation is that they are a secular country and the burqa has no place in it. I don't see any contradiction; I think their points are perfectly valid. From my personal viewpoint, I think France is a freer and safer place because of that. The French police don't mess around. They are armed and mean business. Whereas here... what do we have, some fat blobs stuffing their faces with McDonalds in their cars? Because of the fascist liberals so endemic in our country, I feel our safety and security is compromised. We are a western society, so fit in or f*ck off.

Funny that, I'd never really seen or heard of the burqa, only say 5 or 10 years ago. Where have all these Muslim women appeared from all of a sudden? Truth is, they haven't. They were here then. Only they wore normal clothes then and now, they choose to rub our faces in it. They are on a mission. An Arab Spring happening right under our noses and we're making pathetic excuses for them.
  • #1,843
  • Feb 5, 2017 8:58am Feb 5, 2017 8:58am
Quoting jen101
{quote} The French explanation is that they are a secular country and the burqa has no place in it. I don't see any contradiction; I think their points are perfectly valid. From my personal viewpoint, I think France is a freer and safer place because of that. The French police don't mess around. They are armed and mean business. Whereas here... what do we have, some fat blobs stuffing their faces with McDonalds in their cars? Because of the fascist liberals so endemic in our country, I feel our safety and security is compromised. We are a western...
what you are advocating is discrimination of people who wear a burqa. Are you ok with that?

you say that France is a safer place, but what evidence are you basing that off? Given that the ban has been in place for only a short period of time, is there any evidence at all?

the French ban also prevents people from wearing other things like the sky mask, it isn't just a burqa ban - but it does of course affect mostly Muslim women.

You say they (Muslim burqa wearing women) were here all along and now they are rubbing our noses in it - what is that opinion based on? My view is that we let them in because of our ridiculous immigration policy. They were not always there, and the reasonable ones didn't just stop being reasonable.

what sets you apart from those on the left? Other than you think you feel you are correct? if you cannot provide evidence or provide a reasonable explanation for some of the positions you hold - then you are just a mirror image of them, and just as irrational.
  • #1,844
  • Feb 5, 2017 9:08am Feb 5, 2017 9:08am
Quoting verv
{quote} what you are advocating is discrimination of people who wear a burqa. Are you ok with that? you say that France is a safer place, but what evidence are you basing that off? Given that the ban has been in place for only a short period of time, is there any evidence at all? the French ban also prevents people from wearing other things like the sky mask, it isn't just a burqa ban - but it does of course affect mostly Muslim women. You say they (Muslim burqa wearing women) were here all along and now they are rubbing our noses in it - what is...
I've seen it with my own eyes. Women changing into their burquas on cross channel ferries as soon as they cross into UK waters. You don't see that as taking the piss? They happily wear normal clothes in France.

I did say that I felt safer in France. Am I not entitled to an opinion?
  • #1,845
  • Edited 9:47am Feb 5, 2017 9:15am | Edited 9:47am
Quoting jen101
{quote} I've seen it with my own eyes. Women changing into their burquas on cross channel ferries as soon as they cross into UK waters. You don't see that as taking the piss? They happily wear normal clothes in France. I did say that I felt safer in France. Am I not entitled to an opinion?
did you ask them if they lived in the U.K. previously? - they might be new arrivals to the UK which makes it an immigration problem.

Might they be changing into the burqa because the burqa is banned in France? - Why is it you assume they are moderate Muslim women when in actual fact they might just be complying with French law. You are assuming they are doing it to 'rub your nose in it', more likely they are changing because of the difference in laws between the UK and France.

You said you feel safer but actually since the French 'burqa ban' in 2010 there have been an increase in the number of terror acts. If anything the evidence suggests it hasn't worked in making people safer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France

nobody said you can't have an opinion, but you seem to expect that it shouldn't be challenged. How a person 'feels', is by itself not a particular smart way to conduct public policy.
  • #1,846
  • Feb 5, 2017 10:34am Feb 5, 2017 10:34am
Quoting verv
{quote} Again though, there is no discussion of the unintended consequences. Inevitably there is a trade off from banning the burqa. You may believe you are doing it for reasons of security and making sure people integrate but what it requires is 1) potentially discriminatory legislation, 2) potentially further alienation of a community, and 3) the resentment built up as a result may make ultimately make everyone less safe. There seems to be no acknowledgement of the potential problems (1,2,3) created as a result of a burqa ban. I think there isn't...
Q,1) potentially discriminatory legislation
did you know it's legal to ask someone to remove their hoodie in a shopping centre so I think it should be legal to ask a Muslin women to do the some think also you go on to say you can have your face covered in tattoos in the UK you are wrong a old neighbour use to be covered from head to toe in tattoos but when he what to have his face forehead to chin tattooed he was not allowed because it's illegal to do so for security reasons go to a respected tattoo shop and ask

Q,2) potentially further alienation of a community,
it's not alienation to ask someone to respect our laws and behave as we do like not covering your face in public

Q,3) the resentment built up as a result may make ultimately make everyone less safe.
so are you into appeasement ok you guy's don't have abide by the same rules as us just please don't hurt us do you really think asking people to show their face in public will create terrorists is that your opinion is of muslin people??

Q,There seems to be no acknowledgement of the potential problems (1,2,3) created as a result of a burqa ban. I think there isn't enough consideration of what kind of society you wish to live in when government can ban clothing
all am asking for is a fair society were no one has special treatment unless they are in need of special treatment like someone born deaf blind or dumb or with a physical handicap or a mental disability and Muslin women are none of those things and therefore I expect them to live by the same rules and laws as me like not going out of my house with me face covered

I know you do not think your asking for a two laws society but in me opinion this is exactly what your asking for
  • #1,847
  • Edited Feb 6, 2017 4:31am Feb 5, 2017 11:09am | Edited Feb 6, 2017 4:31am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} Q,1) potentially discriminatory legislation did you know it's legal to ask someone to remove their hoodie in a shopping centre so I think it should be legal to ask a Muslin women to do the some think also you go on to say you can have your face covered in tattoos in the UK you are wrong a old neighbour use to be covered from head to toe in tattoos but when he what to have his face forehead to chin tattooed he was not allowed because it's illegal to do so for security reasons go to a respected tattoo shop and ask Q,2) potentially further...
Ross, are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument or unintentionally so?

I need you to know, that the examples you are bringing up Im not contesting. If a shopping centre can ask for someone to remove their hoody because they are stealing, then it makes sense that someone wearing a burqa could also be asked to remove their burqa for the same reason. The law should be applied equally, always.

Your argument and the examples you use is not the same as getting the burqa banned in public. Can't you see that these are different? We need to address the actual points I'm making, not the point you think I'm making.

I'm also not appeasing anyone, the law should be applied equally to everyone - I think I have been as clear as possible on this. If you think otherwise can you demonstrate why you think that? For you to imply otherwise suggests you simply do not understand my basic argument.

There should be no special privileges for anyone. Nobody is saying that one group should get special privileges.
  • #1,848
  • Feb 5, 2017 11:23am Feb 5, 2017 11:23am
Quoting verv
{quote} It isn't the same. You are assuming that I am saying it is ok to give people preferential treatment - I'm not saying that. My reply to that argument is that if the bank requires a person to show their face, then that person must show their face .
Q,It isn't the same. You are assuming that I am saying it is ok to give people preferential treatment - I'm not saying that
than please explain to me why I can not go outside with me face covered but a Muslin women can is this not definition of preferential treatment?? if you do not think so elaborate as to why

Q,My reply to that argument is that if the bank requires a person to show their face, then that person must show their face - end of story. It is something applied universally regardless of whether that is a burqa or a helmet, or a scarf. It doesn't specifically discriminate against a particular faith
yes and because of the appeasement British society has show we have got Muslin women refusing to remove their burkas in court and school's how is it fair that I can not cover my face when going to the shops but a Muslin women can just explain this to me without calling me fearful?

Q, The burqa ban being discussed, is a complete ban on the burqa in public. The relevant example is a person walking down the street, wearing a burqa, minding their own business.
I can not walk down the street minding me own business with my face covered and neither can you I know your a private person but imagine 3 men walking down your street covered from head to toe in black with their face's covered and your kid's are out playing would you not be alarmed?? you would be because that's a
normal reaction it's a normal reaction to be weary of someone with their face covered even guard dog's get aggressive if they see someone with their face covered

Q,But there is no ban against tattoos on a person face, nor is there a ban on people covering their face. I'm not sure why you think there is
I know this is old ground but you are wrong honestly ask a respected tattoo parlour

Q,It depends why are wearing the balaclava, you might be wearing it:
1) when you are riding a motorcycle, 2) when it is very cold.
3) conceal your identity because you wish to commit a crime 4) to scare people.
you can be legally asked to remove your hoodie in a shopping centre. you try wearing a balaclava for a day in public and see how long until the police tell you to remove and see if telling them am cold help's you cause it will not also we are not talking about Muslin women on motorcycle we are talking about walking down your local high street their is a big difference to that have riding a motorcycle

Q,Like I said, the burqa ban is talking about a complete ban of the burqa in public. I thought this was clear.
Nobody is arguing that private businesses, or the police, or the courts, or the passport office cannot have rules about the clothing that people wear. When people are required by law, or by their job to show their face then they should - it's very simple.
it's funny how killer's have left the UK wearing their mums burkas and that women have refused to remove them in the courts do some more research and you will see that if you give a inch people will come for the mile particularly when they know they are already getting special treatment

Q,The examples you are giving are not relevant, because what is being discussed is a total burqa ban. The examples of banning people from wearing a burqa at a job, or at a court, or passport office, isn't arguing about a ban in public
yes they are just do some research it need's to be banned no on else in the UK can just walk down a street with their face covered

Q,A relevant question is, if a person is just walking down the street, are they allowed to wear a burqa?
no because than everyone will be allowed to cover their face remember you said you weren't asking for a protected class if one group of people can do something others can not it's called preferential treatment I do not want any group to receive this in the UK as I want a fair society

Q,I think there is evidence to think that banning the burqa will have the exact opposite impact
so why did girl's I go to school with leave their house wearing a headscarf but come to school without one on lot's of them don't like wearing these types of clothing

Q,By banning the burqa you are restricting their customs, a custom of wearing a burqa in and off itself does not infringe on the rights of anyone else
our customs are everyone is treated equally having different rules for one group is restricting our customs how can you not see that??

Q,When you repress their customs, you might alienate them further, rather than more.
if you find it oppressive to have your daughters/wives showing their face in public in the UK than you do not want to adapt to our culture and it would be best for everyone involved if they just leave the UK

Q,And when you alienate them further, you increase the changes of them feeling discriminated against, and becoming terrorists.
if someone really think's about blowing me/my family up because I say your daughters and wives should show their face in public whilst in the UK I would be happy to go to war with them as am not a pu$$y thanks
  • #1,849
  • Edited 11:56am Feb 5, 2017 11:40am | Edited 11:56am
Quoting verv
{quote} Ross, are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument or unintentionally so? I need you to know, that the examples you are bringing up Im not contesting. If a shopping centre can ask for someone to remove their hoody because they are steeling, then it makes sense that someone wearing a burqa could also be asked to remove their burqa for the same reason. The law should be applied equally, always. Your argument and the examples you use is not the same as getting the burqa banned in public. Can't you see that these are different? We need to...
Q.Ross, are you deliberately misrepresenting my argument or unintentionally so?
am not deliberately misrepresenting your argument it seems to be give them their own rules as not to upset them or they may turn into terrorists am not easy bulled why would I let people bully me like this??

Q,Might they be changing into the burqa because the burqa is banned in France? - Why is it you assume they are moderate Muslim women when in actual fact they might just be complying with French law. You are assuming they are doing it to 'rub your nose in it', more likely they are changing because of the difference in laws between the UK and France
I do not feel like my nose is being rub into anything I just want to live in a country with one set of rules and no protected class particularly if this group is apparently threatening to turn to terrorism if they don't get their way

Q,We need to address the actual points I'm making, not the point you think I'm making
if I do not get the points you are making than please clarity

Q,I'm also not appeasing anyone, the law should be applied equally to everyone - I think I have been as clear as possible on this. If you think otherwise can you demonstrate why you think that?
if one group can walk down the street with their face covered and no another group can it's a special privileges
  • #1,850
  • Edited Feb 6, 2017 4:33am Feb 5, 2017 12:10pm | Edited Feb 6, 2017 4:33am
Quote
than please explain to me why I can not go outside with me face covered but a Muslin women can is this not definition of preferential treatment?? if you do not think so elaborate as to why

What legislation prevents you from covering your face in public.

Can you point me to the necessary legislation that bans this?

Quote
yes and because of the appeasement British society has show we have got Muslin women refusing to remove their burkas in court and school's how is it fair that I can not cover my face when going to the shops but a Muslin women can just explain this to me without calling me fearful?

And in those cases the law should ensure that people must show their faces in public - this is not a complete ban, and would may not require a ban at all.


Quote
I can not walk down the street minding me own business with my face covered and neither can you I know your a private person but imagine 3 men walking down your street covered from head to toe in black with their face's covered and your kid's are out playing would you not be alarmed?? you would be because that's a
normal reaction it's a normal reaction to be weary of someone with their face covered even guard dog's get aggressive if they see someone with their face covered

what exactly does this have to do with the law?

you are talking about public perceptions, not the law as it currently stands.


Quote
you can be legally asked to remove your hoodie in a shopping centre. you try wearing a balaclava for a day in public and see how long until the police tell you to remove and see if telling them am cold help's you cause it will not also we are not talking about Muslin women on motorcycle we are talking about walking down your local high street their is a big difference to that have riding a motorcycle

Once again what has this got to do with the law - I'm not aware of any law regarding the legality of covering ones face in this country.

what you would be arrested for is threatening behaviour, perhaps, or causing alarm - it isn't simply because you have your face covered.


Quote
it's funny how killer's have left the UK wearing their mums burkas and that women have refused to remove them in the courts do some more research and you will see that if you give a inch people will come for the mile particularly when they know they are already getting special treatment

and like I said above the law should be enforced regardless. I don't need you to tell me this wrong.

im not arguing that point.


Quote
yes they are just do some research it need's to be banned no on else in the UK can just walk down a street with their face covered

this is not true, there is no ban against wearing things on your face. Please point me to the laws that say otherwise.


Quote
our customs are everyone is treated equally having different rules for one group is restricting our customs how can you not see that??

except a ban against people wearing a burqa, would be a direct contradiction to what you just said


Quote
f you find it oppressive to have your daughters/wives showing their face in public in the UK than you do not want to adapt to our culture and it would be best for everyone involved if they just leave the UK

preferable to not let people in, rather than start enacting repressive legislation.

the problem with people born in the country they are British citizen are have British rights. To outlaw just the burqa would be to specifically discriminate against Muslims - yes it isn't particularly severe but you have made a specific exemption for an item of clothing worn exclusively by Muslim women. At which point the law is now discriminating.


Quote
f someone really think's about blowing me/my family up because I say your daughters and wives should show their face in public whilst in the UK I would be happy to go to war with them as am not a pu$$y thanks

thats not what is being discussed. Nor had it been implied that it is Ok to blow you up.
  • #1,851
  • Feb 5, 2017 12:14pm Feb 5, 2017 12:14pm
Quote
am not deliberately misrepresenting your argument it seems to be give them their own rules as not to upset them or they may turn into terrorists am not easy bulled why would I let people bully me like this??

no.

this is exactly what I'm arguing against.

there should be no exceptions within the law, unless absolutely necessary - the trade off must be worth it.

you are arguing for a burqa ban, you are arguing for an exception to be made for Muslims in the law
  • #1,852
  • Feb 5, 2017 2:29pm Feb 5, 2017 2:29pm
Quoting verv
{quote} did you ask them if they lived in the U.K. previously? - they might be new arrivals to the UK which makes it an immigration problem. Might they be changing into the burqa because the burqa is banned in France? - Why is it you assume they are moderate Muslim women when in actual fact they might just be complying with French law. You are assuming they are doing it to 'rub your nose in it', more likely they are changing because of the difference in laws between the UK and France. You said you feel safer but actually since the French 'burqa...
If a clown jumped out of the bushes and scared your kids, he would be within the law right? Your kids would be having nightmares, you would have to stay up all night comforting them because they are too scared to sleep, their school life would suffer, they would fall behind .... yet you can't do anything about it because you can't base policies on how someone feels?! Wrong. Public disorder is totally based on how someone feels. If someone flashed at me and I was offended? That's totally based on how I feel.

You can't compare France to the UK. It is about 6 times bigger for a start. Also I never qualified what I meant by feeling safe; you just assumed I meant not being shot by a terrorist. Again wrong.

Have you driven through Tower Hamlets in recent times? I have and I tell you I kept my doors well locked. Would you be happy to walk through there alone as the only white face? I most definitely would not. Last year when Donald Trump talked about parts of London being no go areas, did you disagree with him? Did you sign that petition to ban him from the UK as a consequence? I can 100% vouch that Trump was not exaggerating. He was telling the truth.

Now, I guess feeling scared is only a feeling and you can't base any policies on that can you? Well, Trump just did and he's making America a safer place.
  • #1,853
  • Feb 5, 2017 2:57pm Feb 5, 2017 2:57pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} If a clown jumped out of the bushes and scared your kids, he would be within the law right? Your kids would be having nightmares, you would have to stay up all night comforting them because they are too scared to sleep, their school life would suffer, they would fall behind .... yet you can't do anything about it because you can't base policies on how someone feels?! Wrong. Public disorder is totally based on how someone feels. If someone flashed at me and I was offended? That's totally based on how I feel. You can't compare France to the...
At least you admit it about fear more than anything else. Leave it to a woman to tell the raw truth.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #1,854
  • Edited Feb 6, 2017 4:35am Feb 5, 2017 3:56pm | Edited Feb 6, 2017 4:35am
Quoting jen101
{quote} If a clown jumped out of the bushes and scared your kids, he would be within the law right? Your kids would be having nightmares, you would have to stay up all night comforting them because they are too scared to sleep, their school life would suffer, they would fall behind .... yet you can't do anything about it because you can't base policies on how someone feels?! Wrong. Public disorder is totally based on how someone feels. If someone flashed at me and I was offended? That's totally based on how I feel. You can't compare France to the...

Sorry Jen, but I don't agree with any of your post.

A clown hiding, jumping out and scaring your kids is clearly harassment. And because of that you can and should be able to do something about it.

In your case, and others posted by Ross, the examples cited often have the burqa wearer breaking some kind of rule or law. But that's not relevant, because the sole point of a burqa ban is that it would be applied irrespective of any kind of behaviour, irrespective of whether or not the person was breaking the law, and simply because the person is wearing a burqa. Under such a ban a person can be sitting outside of their own house, minding their own business, not breaking any laws or any rules and according to you their wearing a burqa should be illegal. I don't agree with that.

Your argument is flawed, it's based on fear, and I believe the misplaced belief that banning burqas will somehow make everyone safer. Your example of women changing into a burqa on a ferry because you believe that Muslim women wanted to run 'our noses in it' shows your bias - an obvious explanation is that they were changing changing clothes because the burka was banned in France but not the UK, but you couldn't find that explanation.

Im against a burqa ban because I feel it wouldn't achieve what you hope, i.e. feeling safer, because in fact it might make the situation worse. I against setting a precedent whereby we as a free and democratic nation have government telling people what to wear. And I'm against having a policy that would in effect discriminate against British citizens because of their faith when they aren't breaking any laws.

i am for vetting of the people coming into the country. It is clear enough to me, that in the long run democracy and liberty can only be maintained by having a population of like minded people, who shares similar morality and a similar view of what government should look like. It is my view that just letting anyone in ignores the fact that people do not share our beliefs, it is like sowing the seeds of destruction for democracy and liberty.
  • #1,855
  • Feb 5, 2017 4:57pm Feb 5, 2017 4:57pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Sorry Jen, but I don't agree with any of your post. A clown hiding, jumping out and scaring your kids is clearly harassment. And because of that you can and should be able to do something about it. In your case, and others posted by Ross, the examples cited often have the burqa wearing breaking some kind of rule or law relating to wearing a burqa. But that's not relevant, because the sole point of a burqa ban is that it would be applied irrespective of any kind of behaviour, irrespective of whether or not the person was breaking the law,...
I think you are completely missing the point about the burqa. In their culture, women cover themselves from head to toe because only their husbands should see them and if they were to show any skin, they are basically asking for it, because men can't help themselves. Don't you find that offensive? So Muslim men view western women as sluts because they don't wear a burqa. Remember New Year's Eve Cologne? Western women are just free for all. Now I do find Muslim men extremely creepy, the way they stare. Isn't it my right to wear what I want too without fear? If I wear a short skirt or shorts, does it mean I'm asking for it? Muslim men would think so. Now that is why I feel safer in France.
  • #1,856
  • Edited 6:09pm Feb 5, 2017 5:52pm | Edited 6:09pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} I think you are completely missing the point about the burqa. In their culture, women cover themselves from head to toe because only their husbands should see them and if they were to show any skin, they are basically asking for it, because men can't help themselves. Don't you find that offensive? So Muslim men view western women as sluts because they don't wear a burqa. Remember New Year's Eve Cologne? Western women are just free for all. Now I do find Muslim men extremely creepy, the way they stare. Isn't it my right to wear what I want...
its not about whether you are offended by it, and it's not about you finding men creepy. It's about the principle of allowing other people to live their lives, as they see fit, for as long as it doesn't impact anyone else's life.

The problem with believing that laws should be made off the back of being offended or finding something creepy is that there are so many things that could be considered offensive or creepy. Should we revoke freedom of speech in case it causes you find offense - as was the case with UC Berkeley video above? Should we prevent men from leaving the house in case their gaze is considered creepy - like some femi-nazis who want their 'safe space'? Where does it end?

You say you feel safer in France, and I believe you but the evidence, certainly recently, suggests France is in fact not safer than the U.K. I don't feel safe flying but statistics suggest it is the safest form of transport. How we feel is not necessarily a reflection of reality.
  • #1,857
  • Feb 6, 2017 2:52am Feb 6, 2017 2:52am
Quoting verv
{quote} no. this is exactly what I'm arguing against. there should be no exceptions within the law, unless absolutely necessary - the trade off must be worth it. you are arguing for a burqa ban, you are arguing for an exception to be made for Muslims in the law
ok I now know where you are coming I have been previously told that it's illegal to cover your face in public in the UK and in fact it's not (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_laws) so much of my argument is invalid


but if you had a small percentage of the local population (white men) that were regular covering their face's and going out in public I think people would not have a problem with saying no that's illegal now as we have a new law but because British society has not had this problem before we do not have a law to enforce the removal of the cover but now we have a new community in the UK and a new law need's to be made in my opinion I would feel the some way if it become fashionable for young white men to go out minding their our business as you say in public with their face covered. also my point on shopping centres is still valid as a white men I can not go there with me face cover/wearing a hoodie but a Muslin women can do you see her as more moral than me because that's what society is saying if she is trusted to be in public with no way of identifying her presuming it is a her they are example's of Muslin women wearing them and shitting in public and even having sex in public if I was of a more slight build and was going out shoplifting I know of a great disguise and lot's be honest we now have a terrorism problem and it's a clear security and no this is not me attemptingto punish the Muslin community if we still hadIrish terrorism going on I would still be of the opinion that we need to ban covering your face in public it's just a coincidence that we have Muslin terrorism and this ban will directly affect Muslin women

  • #1,858
  • Feb 6, 2017 3:30am Feb 6, 2017 3:30am
Quoting verv
{quote} its not about whether you are offended by it, and it's not about you finding men creepy. It's about the principle of allowing other people to live their lives, as they see fit, for as long as it doesn't impact anyone else's life. The problem with believing that laws should be made off the back of being offended or finding something creepy is that there are so many things that could be considered offensive or creepy. Should we revoke freedom of speech in case it causes you find offense - as was the case with UC Berkeley video above? Should...
OK it's not about me, so why don't you talk to the thousands and thousands of German and Swedish women who have been attacked? Why don't you speak to the teenage girls in Rotherham who were groomed and gang raped by Muslim men? Because where they come from that is perfectly fine. The Islamic culture is in direct contradiction to our own and there is no such thing as lives not impacting! Why do you think that the greatest call for the burqa to be banned is from Germany? Tell all those thousands of women what they are feeling is irrational.

Verv, I am finding you particularly odious right now. There is a bad smell in this place.
  • #1,859
  • Feb 6, 2017 3:54am Feb 6, 2017 3:54am
Quoting jen101
{quote} OK it's not about me, so why don't you talk to the thousands and thousands of German and Swedish women who have been attacked? Why don't you speak to the teenage girls in Rotherham who were groomed and gang raped by Muslim men? Because where they come from that is perfectly fine. The Islamic culture is in direct contradiction to our own and there is no such thing as lives not impacting! Why do you think that the greatest call for the burqa to be banned is from Germany? Tell all those thousands of women what they are feeling is irrational....
Lol - sorry for the smell, this will be the last couple of replies because my working week has started and I don't have the time.

The solution to German and Swedish women being attacked is to properly vet migrants. The solution to a culture at odds with our, is a meaningful process of entry, to ensure that our culture of democracy and liberty is not diluted by migrants who don't share those values.

The solution is NOT, in my view, enacting repressive legislation, that target a portion of British citizens as I feel that undermines the principles that we claim to stand for. Right I don't see a ban on the burqa as constructive.
  • #1,860
  • Feb 6, 2017 4:05am Feb 6, 2017 4:05am
Quoting verv
{quote} Lol - sorry for the smell, this will be the last couple of replies because my working week has started and I don't have the time. The solution to German and Swedish women being attacked is to properly vet migrants. The solution to a culture at odds with our, is a meaningful process of entry, to ensure that our culture of democracy and liberty is not diluted by migrants who don't share those values. The solution is NOT, in my view, enacting repressive legislation, that target a portion of British citizens as I feel that undermines the principles...

I agree with the first part of what you say, but on the subject of the burqa I disagree. To me, the burqa is a symbol of the subjugation and the disenfranchisement of women, which in is alien to our society. It flies in the face of our core beliefs
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