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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #23,321
  • Jan 6, 2017 3:51am Jan 6, 2017 3:51am
First TP +33.6 pips hit second position is at BE+2. Total 84.8 for today with one more position at BE+2..
Reason for entry saw a nice NSL on M1 and decided to join the London down order flow. Thank you Mr Pip and Mastermind I am still learning day by day.
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  • #23,322
  • Jan 6, 2017 5:39am Jan 6, 2017 5:39am
Quoting rocky
{quote} Crixus, I've posted a couple of charts explaining why I wouldn't take this trade. I didn't want to confuse traders here that solely use Damians method. You can locate my charts over on my thread, Thanks, Rocky!

I visited your thread but i can't see any images. I get an error. Howvever, i do not think Damian would be offended if you reply here. On the chart i posted there are a few reasons why the shorts would be short lived. Price was over extended to the downside, a change of order flow, the up move was strong, bullish divergence on internals etc. But would anyway like to hear various opinions.
  • #23,323
  • Jan 6, 2017 7:03am Jan 6, 2017 7:03am
Quoting crixus
Question for you Fibs' users. Would any of you consider a short at A or B? Thanks This is the ES on a 1597 tick chart. I never use this TF but would appreciate your perspective. {image}
Hi Crixus,

honestly, I would have tried at point B to go short. Point "A" would not be an option for me, since "support structure" is too close to protect anything.
At point "B", I would have protected my entry amd most probably have been taken out for a few pips.

With hindsight, I see also that it would have been more wise to look for continuation to the upside, but in realtime it is something else.
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  • #23,324
  • Jan 6, 2017 7:44am Jan 6, 2017 7:44am
Quoting crixus
Question for you Fibs' users. Would any of you consider a short at A or B? Thanks This is the ES on a 1597 tick chart. I never use this TF but would appreciate your perspective. {image}
Look for confluence when applying Fibs (with psy levels, other Fibs, chart structure, trendlines to an extent etc).

Point A:

On your chart at Point A the chart structure is no good for a short even though that bearish candle is a temptation to pull the trigger.

Look for areas of supply (Are there any in around Point A?).

Look at the previous pullbacks on the way UP that main leg ... quite shallow are they not ... so if you went short at A how far were you expecting price to travel?

Which leads right into the next question .... Where was your stop going to go ... how is your risk to reward looking from such an entry?

Point B:

Certainly possible to take a short here risking a few pips with your stop just above that next high to the left.
However, only a small TP should have been sort with a move to BE + a few pips asap.

Do not attempt to take shorts or longs as the case may be purely at Fibs.
The whole chart structure and PA needs to be put into perspective and context and traded accordingly.

Its easy to say what we would have done in hindsight but just have a look at the chart again and notice all the little clues where the chart is speaking to you ..... projections, trend up, small pullbacks followed by continuation etc etc.

ps. I won't annotate a chart as it should be clear enough from what I've posted.

Good trading,

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #23,325
  • Jan 6, 2017 8:51am Jan 6, 2017 8:51am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} ... Do not attempt to take shorts or longs as the case may be purely at Fibs. The whole chart structure and PA needs to be put into perspective and context and traded accordingly.
By context do you mean considering what the other sectors are doing along with the USD and Gold? Or just considering price action within the developing chart structure? Most of time when i read the word context people are mixing both concepts.
  • #23,326
  • Edited 3:20pm Jan 6, 2017 10:19am | Edited 3:20pm
got in this late, but may be a runner. 7.54R trade initiated.

Update...

So far so good

locked

Closed near 3.7 R don't want to hold.
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The things that we love tell us what we are Thanks Redsword11 and Tim Morge
  • #23,327
  • Jan 6, 2017 1:51pm Jan 6, 2017 1:51pm
After 2 losses today on YM, I could finally finish the day with +30. I entered several times, since a few times I protected too early my entry. I have to work on that to keep the fingers calm. Otherwise, I was trying to get the maximum of swing by trailing accordingly.
  • #23,328
  • Jan 6, 2017 2:13pm Jan 6, 2017 2:13pm
Quoting crixus
{quote} By context do you mean considering what the other sectors are doing along with the USD and Gold? Or just considering price action within the developing chart structure? Most of time when i read the word context people are mixing both concepts.
I found your question good, since it showed me again that I need to pay attention to not enter at support structure in front of me when going short and to protect early my trade, epecially when the immediate expectation is a NSH.
  • #23,329
  • Jan 6, 2017 5:02pm Jan 6, 2017 5:02pm
Hi all and Happy New Year. started with my live YM account this week and good have mercy it was watching paint dry. I trade 2:30am-5:30am and its extremely difficult when this things isn't moving. I look at volume during 9:30-12 noon and it moves really well to grab 20T. Of course I will be going for more but as you can see from results 20T is hard to come by during London. With that said, does any one have something that moves during london with $5/tick that they trade? $12.50/tick on euro futures is to expensive and a few wrong moves will blow my account quickly. I am done gambling. I need help. Currently I am looking for a position that will allow me the time to trade US session, but still figuring it out.

Thanks.
FYI: I must be able at bare minimum cover operational cost. If not, this a hobby and I am not in this as a hobby.
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Empower Your Mind
  • #23,330
  • Jan 6, 2017 6:03pm Jan 6, 2017 6:03pm
Quoting vqtrader
Hi all and Happy New Year. started with my live YM account this week and good have mercy it was watching paint dry. I trade 2:30am-5:30am and its extremely difficult when this things isn't moving. I look at volume during 9:30-12 noon and it moves really well to grab 20T. Of course I will be going for more but as you can see from results 20T is hard to come by during London. With that said, does any one have something that moves during london with $5/tick that they trade? $12.50/tick on euro futures is to expensive and a few wrong moves will blow...
My 2 cents you could chart the regular eurusd contract but trade the mini contract or just trade forex. Larry Pesavento said a while back and that he likes to chart the forex because the futures is only 1% of volume in the forex market, and fib numbers work better. I like oanda as a broker. Start with micro lots and move to mini then standard.
The things that we love tell us what we are Thanks Redsword11 and Tim Morge
  • #23,331
  • Jan 6, 2017 7:37pm Jan 6, 2017 7:37pm
Quoting crixus
{quote} By context do you mean considering what the other sectors are doing along with the USD and Gold? Or just considering price action within the developing chart structure? Most of time when i read the word context people are mixing both concepts.
By context I'm referring to overall developed and developing chart structure.

How well does the anticipated setup fit within the chosen boundaries of analysis on this particular chart.

Again in simplistic terms its achieving a level of confluence and stacking the odds in your favor before you pull the trigger and enter that trade.

Look for any reasons why the trade should not be entered.

Ask yourself does it make sense to be trading instrument XYZ-ABC short within the current chart structure and order flow.

Strive to get as much probability on your side as possible so you have a greater chance of producing a profitable trade.

If you enter a trade based purely on random decisions then you will surely get random results and your trading will be more of a hit and miss affair.

You have got to be chasing that edge ... getting as many trading factors on your side as possible makes a big difference especially over the long haul.

ps. on a side note I stay in tune as much as possible with market news so I have some kind of an expectation that volatility is likely to increase but keeping an eye on the FF Calendar is also useful. I actually have paid subscription to live news feeds but I trade far more instruments than what I post here!

Good trading,

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #23,332
  • Edited 10:03pm Jan 6, 2017 8:40pm | Edited 10:03pm
Quoting crixus
{quote} By context do you mean considering what the other sectors are doing along with the USD and Gold? Or just considering price action within the developing chart structure? Most of time when i read the word context people are mixing both concepts.

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The burgundy zone represents the 4 volume clusters to the left. Once there was a clear close above these clusters then there was a high probability that PA would rise.

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There's a great "Short" setup on the footprint chart. In fact it's one of my bread and butter trades. Let's see who can find it along with an explanation on why it's a high probability "Short" Those who read my post should know the answer. HINT: The setup is on the 1597 Tick chart, the OFA confirms the analysis.
  • #23,333
  • Jan 7, 2017 12:44am Jan 7, 2017 12:44am
Quoting vqtrader
Hi all and Happy New Year. started with my live YM account this week and good have mercy it was watching paint dry. I trade 2:30am-5:30am and its extremely difficult when this things isn't moving. I look at volume during 9:30-12 noon and it moves really well to grab 20T. Of course I will be going for more but as you can see from results 20T is hard to come by during London. With that said, does any one have something that moves during london with $5/tick that they trade? $12.50/tick on euro futures is to expensive and a few wrong moves will blow...
You can trade 6B (GBP/USD) using 89 or 144 tick chart. Tick value is 6.25$. My preference for the European session is 6J (JPY/USD). Tick value is also 6.25$ (12.5$ per point/pip). Usually your stop on 6J is around 10-16 points which in terms of money is the same as risking 30-40 points on YM. If this is too much you can use the E7 and J7 contracts. They are the E-mini contract for EUR/USD and JPY/USD and are 6.25$ per point but I'm not sure if they have enough liquidity.
  • #23,334
  • Jan 7, 2017 6:58am Jan 7, 2017 6:58am
Quoting rocky
{quote} ES 03-17 (1597 Tick) 1_5_2017.jpg;2129591 The burgundy zone
represents the 4 volume clusters to the left. Once there was a clear close above these clusters then there was a high probability that PA would rise. ES 03-17 ( OFA 21_5 ) 1_5_2017.jpg;2129596 There's a great "Short" setup on the footprint chart. In fact it's one of my bread and butter trades. Let's see who can find it along with an explanation on why it's a high probability "Short" Those who read my pos
t should know the answer. HINT: The setup is on the 1597 Tick chart,...
Hello Rocky,

I would short at OFA candle at 11.09, since we have 4 candles with volume clusters above and I see a trading imbalance at the candle created 09.47, with a huge volume at BID, there sellers have pushed the price down (Bid 1023,1209,847,2021).
  • #23,335
  • Jan 7, 2017 7:56am Jan 7, 2017 7:56am
Quoting eaglestar
{quote} My 2 cents you could chart the regular eurusd contract but trade the mini contract or just trade forex. Larry Pesavento said a while back and that he likes to chart the forex because the futures is only 1% of volume in the forex market, and fib numbers work better. I like oanda as a broker. Start with micro lots and move to mini then standard.
thanks
Empower Your Mind
  • #23,336
  • Jan 7, 2017 7:59am Jan 7, 2017 7:59am
Quoting x3m-PippiN
{quote} You can trade 6B (GBP/USD) using 89 or 144 tick chart. Tick value is 6.25$. My preference for the European session is 6J (JPY/USD). Tick value is also 6.25$ (12.5$ per point/pip). Usually your stop on 6J is around 10-16 points which in terms of money is the same as risking 30-40 points on YM. If this is too much you can use the E7 and J7 contracts. They are the E-mini contract for EUR/USD and JPY/USD and are 6.25$ per point but I'm not sure if they have enough liquidity.
Thanks. I will look into data for next week.
Empower Your Mind
  • #23,337
  • Jan 7, 2017 9:21am Jan 7, 2017 9:21am
Quoting Trappist
{quote} Hello Rocky, I would short at OFA candle at 11.09, since we have 4 candles with volume clusters above and I see a trading imbalance at the candle created 09.47, with a huge volume at BID, there sellers have pushed the price down (Bid 1023,1209,847,2021).
Hi Rocky thanks for your feedbacks. I would agree with Trappist, the pull back to the trapped zone (olive color on your chart) it is also a logical area on the tick chart. Prior to this is see a good setup on the tick chart where price action forms a "M" formation. Some traders call this entry a second entry short. Priror to this still on the tick chart at around 10:25:38 (your chart) we see price trying to make a new high but fails at the same level as the level prior to the HOD. It looks like a local head and shoulder reversal patter.

However, about your bread and butter setup, what would have been your potential reward before taking the trade?
  • #23,338
  • Jan 7, 2017 10:52am Jan 7, 2017 10:52am
Quoting rocky
{quote} ES 03-17 (1597 Tick) 1_5_2017.jpg;2129591 The burgundy zone represents the 4 volume clusters to the left. Once there was a clear close above these clusters then there was a high probability that PA would rise. ES 03-17 ( OFA 21_5 ) 1_5_2017.jpg;2129596 There's a great "Short" setup on the footprint chart. In fact it's one of my bread and butter trades. Let's see who can find it along with an explanation on why it's a high probability "Short" Those who read my post should know the answer. HINT: The setup is on the 1597 Tick chart,...
Hey rocky,

I am interested in the tools you mentioned. Do you think it makes a difference which one's you use or is a precise priceladder enough. More importantly, could you recommend any sources to learn about the information provided by these tools and how to use them? Because it seems not so easy and I found that the real difficulty in trading is about finding credible sources that teach valuable information that matches your ideas about trading.

What makes this thread so appealing is Mr.Pip's way of teaching chart-reading and proving his insights, so that one can understand them and rely on them because one can verify them. (And they are easily usable for eveyone, so that you can see the benefits of reading the chart that way in the results of your own trading.)
  • #23,339
  • Jan 7, 2017 11:20am Jan 7, 2017 11:20am
Quoting rocky
{quote} ES 03-17 (1597 Tick) 1_5_2017.jpg;2129591 The burgundy zone represents the 4 volume clusters to the left. Once there was a clear close above these clusters then there was a high probability that PA would rise. ES 03-17 ( OFA 21_5 ) 1_5_2017.jpg;2129596 There's a great "Short" setup on the footprint chart. In fact it's one of my bread and butter trades. Let's see who can find it along with an explanation on why it's a high probability "Short" Those who read my post should know the answer. HINT: The setup is on the 1597 Tick chart,...
Short olive zone and fade the 32:1 buy imbalance from the 9:47 candle.

Not a bad short at the 7:56 sell imbalance either, looks like they defended prior close.
  • #23,340
  • Jan 7, 2017 11:45am Jan 7, 2017 11:45am
Quoting crixus
Question for you Fibs' users. Would any of you consider a short at A or B? Thanks This is the ES on a 1597 tick chart. I never use this TF but would appreciate your perspective. {image}
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