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MetaQuotes "This is the last MT4 upgrade"

  • #261
  • Dec 22, 2016 9:26am Dec 22, 2016 9:26am
....MQ will force us to MT5 in some time for sure...
anyway we have many coders here. what is your experience with MT5? pro and cons vs. MT4?
  • #262
  • Edited Dec 23, 2016 2:32pm Dec 22, 2016 7:23pm | Edited Dec 23, 2016 2:32pm
Quoting CloudRider
If Metaquotes seeks to impose MT5 unilaterally, with no backwards compatibility for indicators, EA's and scripts, it would most likely spell the end of Metaquotes over time, and for many brokers as well, as traders drift away to alternative platforms/brokers, which would be in nobody's best interests. No company in any field has ever survived in the long run by unilaterally imposing changes that are not wanted by the end user.
Given that this is forex trading, I'm not so sure. MQ's decision is all about increasing their profits. They've stated that it's no longer economical for them to maintain both MT4 and MT5 (especially now that there are tablet and smartphone versions). Apparently they make more revenue from their app shop than from leasing MT4 to br0kers. That's hardly surprising: at the last count, there were around 20 million MT4/MT5 traders (potential app customers), and less than 300 br0kers.

From a br0ker's point of view, traders are merely fodder. If a trader blows his account and quits forex, the br0ker doesn't care, because there are always hundreds of others desperate to sign up, and one trader paying spreads and commissions is just as good as any other. Newcomers believe that FX is an easy way to riches, and MetaTrader provides a free pipeline into this financial dreamworld.

In all likelihood MQ see it the same way. If MT4 users switch to another product brand because their EAs and indicators no longer work, it's no real problem, because MT5 will quickly gain acceptance among thousands of new traders, and even some of the old MT4 diehards will grudgingly make the change. Assuming that these folk want to continue trading, their EAs and indicators will need to be re-coded no matter which platform they move to, making MT5 no worse than any other option.

MQ foisted MT4 build 600 upon traders/coders who didn't necessarily want it. Not only was the feed to earlier versions stopped, but the MT4 software updated itself automatically to a later build on my computer, without my consent. (I was running Win XP at the time, and the only way of stopping it was to disconnect my router). You can read more about it in this thread. There's no reason for MQ to change their heavy-handed business approach.

Forex is hyper-commercialism, and -- for better or worse -- retail traders languish at the bottom end of the food chain. US traders have had no-hedge, FIFO and lower leverage regulations forced upon them. As always, it's a case of adapt or die.
  • #263
  • Dec 23, 2016 2:02am Dec 23, 2016 2:02am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Given that this is forex trading, I'm not so sure. MQ's decision is all about increasing their profits. They've stated that it's no longer economical for them to maintain both MT4 and MT5 (especially now that there are tablet and smartphone versions). Apparently they make more revenue from their app shop than from leasing MT4 to br0kers. That's hardly surprising: at the last count, there were around 20 million MT4/MT5 traders (potential app customers), and less than 300 br0kers. Traders are mere fodder to br0kers. If a trader blows his account...
I agree point by point
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #264
  • Dec 23, 2016 5:56am Dec 23, 2016 5:56am
Quoting CloudRider
Metaquotes should offer:- 1) a facility for converting MQ4 source code to MQ5 source code and, 2) a facility for decompiling of EX4 code so that it can be converted to MQ5 code before being recompiled (this would protect the original coder's intellectual property). These facilities should be hard coded into MT5 so that the first time an indicator, EA or script is run, it is automatically converted to MT5 format, regardless of whether or not the relevant file is MQ4 or EX4.
Are you familiar with building compilers and programming languages? I guess not. Since the binaries of MT4 not compatible to the MT5 binaries they will not run there. That's a fact the most here aware right now. MT5 could get an interpreter for MT4 binaries, but I will also bet that the will don't investing time and money into this. Why? The original developer can port to MQ5 at his cost as well.

Same issue with an internal decompiler and recompile into MQ5. It would be the same amount of work to do that.

As mentioned many times here in that thread. It's not that effort to switch to MQ5. There are good threads on their forum which functions must be converted. Using some compiler directives and a header you will be able to convert all MQ4 nearly 100% with this simple "trick". The most tricky part will be order management, here is a developer who abstracted this already into some classes and interfaces on the save side. Who coded this "hard" has to do his homework and will be doomed to convert any EA separate.

For the professional coders here it will be no problem to migrate (and this is also to read in the several comments here). The only ones who fear are the guys who using stuff without source code (and for them a have no mercy either because I think the binaries are stolen or they are naive to relying on a black box).
  • #265
  • Dec 23, 2016 6:16am Dec 23, 2016 6:16am
How an structured framework is not affected for platform changes... For support new TFs and graphical modes I only have add new definitions. Old ocde is not affected and will work out of box. If new changes affects ( like trade API ) I only have modify classes wrapping that API. App code dont need change or need little modifications...

That is the reason MT made the effort adding MT5 compiler to b600+ MT4 builds... Problem is many indicators are hard-coded and will be a nightmare for some coders...
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Try don't lose pants never...
  • #266
  • Dec 23, 2016 6:51am Dec 23, 2016 6:51am
Quoting JensItzig
{quote} Are you familiar with building compilers and programming languages? I guess not...
You guess right! I am not a coder. Having said that, I do have some experience of coding in the BASIC and similar languages from years ago, so I do have a reasonable understanding of programming logic. I would very much like to be able to code in MQL4, but I have found it to be a very difficult language to learn. And believe me, I have tried! Nevertheless, I am able to look at a page of MQL4 code, and can sometimes work out the logic involved well enough to be able to make minor amendments, such as adding an alert to an indicator, or changing default settings etc.

I only use a small number of indicators, which are either standard MT4 indicators, which will presumably still be available in MT5, or for which I have the legitimate source code. I really would like to have a facility for translating these latter indicators from MQL4 into MQL5, and I am really hoping that there may be an enterprising professional coder out there willing to develop such a product. I would willingly pay good money for such a product, but I guess when the time comes, I am going to have to pay a professional coder to do the job for me, if I can find one willing to do so.

Season's Greetings to all FF Members.
It matters not how slow we are to learn, as long as we do not stop.
  • #267
  • Dec 23, 2016 7:41am Dec 23, 2016 7:41am
As a programmer and trader, I don't like convert all of my work in mt4 into mt5 code
Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing.
  • #268
  • Dec 24, 2016 1:54am Dec 24, 2016 1:54am
Quoting dragonexpert
As a programmer and trader, I don't like convert all of my work in mt4 into mt5 code
There are so many informations out there. https://www.mql5.com/en/articles/81

Even if you put this into a header and compile this via directive into your MQ4 or MQ5 code you have most of the stuff running.

i don't see the reason to whine and discuss all day long why MT5 has changed the language.

Take Ninjatrader 7 and 8 also the same and only limited ways to migrate the old stuff.

It seems that only the MT users want all for free and only interested in collecting indicators. Look at this forum. First question is always where to get the stuff for download. Or how many asking for decompile stuff.
  • #269
  • Dec 26, 2016 9:03am Dec 26, 2016 9:03am
patiently waiting on deep web to respond to MQ....and help retail traders...
  • #270
  • Jan 2, 2017 5:51am Jan 2, 2017 5:51am
Unfortunately, in the not so distant future we might all have to grind our teeth and move onto Metatrader 5, because between the decision not to develop Metatrader 4 anymore and to hike its fees for brokers Metaquotes are more or less successful in shoehorning it into the market. The platform is rapidly gaining popularity among brokers – over a hundred major brokers have already adopted it.
For now Metatrader 4 is a leader but things change, who knows what the situation will be in a few years.
  • #271
  • Jan 2, 2017 6:01am Jan 2, 2017 6:01am
Quoting mlawson71
....The platform is rapidly gaining popularity among brokers over a hundred major brokers have already adopted it. .....
Does it gain popularity among traders?
  • #272
  • Jan 2, 2017 6:19am Jan 2, 2017 6:19am
MT5 就是 “脱了裤子放屁”！！！例如 Ask、Bid 需要用 SymbolInfoDouble(Symbol(),SYMBOL_ASK)、SymbolInfoDouble(Symbol(),SYMBOL_BID) 调用，多此一举！
  • #273
  • Jan 2, 2017 6:35am Jan 2, 2017 6:35am
Quoting ruma29
{quote} Does it gain popularity among traders?
Lol Actually Our trading can't be updated either by Mt5 or Mt6 or Empty 7 so so. For a trader broker is important who give regular withdrawals, safety of money and provide fast execution of trades. Now damn Mt5 up-gradation , what are new to benefit us?

We, only second class traders(no offense to anyone..it's true)less than 50000$ capital base trade with Mt4 and it's mostly popularized due to indicators.

Now Mt4 will go for sure , sooner or later. But we need independent data feed for mt4. I think we should now focus how to import external data in to Mt4 or even Mt5 data to Mt4.
Never Gamble Forex
  • #274
  • Jan 2, 2017 6:58am Jan 2, 2017 6:58am
Quoting yesyoucan
{quote} Lol ...
need more time to get decompiler for build 600+ for .ex4....
  • #275
  • Jan 2, 2017 7:13am Jan 2, 2017 7:13am
You won't get one and that's good. Even if you get decompiled code you will have no clue how to migrate to mq5.
I will wait patiently about your stories how you got ripped off from various scam artists they claiming to be able to decompile. Who not respect others IP is the perfect victim for them and deserve the looses to them.
  • #276
  • Jan 4, 2017 2:26pm Jan 4, 2017 2:26pm
Just to reinforce what Jensitzig pointed out in post 268, most MQL4 code will compile and run under MQL5. Of course you have to have the source code. All of my indicators compiled without error and executed fine with no modification. As far as EAs, all of mine were failures just like most of everyone else's, so I had no interest in them going forward.

The new code I am writing is targeted for MQL5 and it has not been a challenge to learn the new features so far.

Something to think about. All code suffers code rot. It quickly deteriorates after a few mods or becomes out date from lack of incorporating new features. Some rot is evident even after two years. After five, it is very obvious and rapidly creates technical debt if left untouched. After ten years, it probably can't be salvaged and needs a total rewrite. I am guessing, but I think most MQL4 code is 5 to 10 years old, so it needs upgrading / replacement anyway.

Metaquotes is doing the right thing in the right way - at least from a technical point of view . Microsoft abandoned NT because it had to and the new Windows 10 is the best version by far. I pity those who stuck with NT. We will be say the same thing about Metaquotes in five years. Traders of course have a different point of view, but from the comments I have read, the changes will not affect the majority.
  • #277
  • Jan 4, 2017 11:37pm Jan 4, 2017 11:37pm
Quoting CodeMeister
Just to reinforce what Jensitzig pointed out in post 268, most MQL4 code will compile and run under MQL5. Of course you have to have the source code. All of my indicators compiled without error and executed fine with no modification. As far as EAs, all of mine were failures just like most of everyone else's, so I had no interest in them going forward. The new code I am writing is targeted for MQL5 and it has not been a challenge to learn the new features so far. Something to think about. All code suffers code rot. It quickly deteriorates after a...
From technical point of view you very correct. This kinda up-gradation will continue, we can expect windows 20 in next years..okay and same with Metaquote..may be Meta trader 10. I found no problem in placing trades both in Mt4 and Mt5. I even traded with other platforms available. Being an trader my objective is only profit and less loss right? So very high end terminal always mess up trading and trading itself not a rocket science. I always welcome development but no terminal can make trading a profitable version , but Metaquotes should allow old indicators to work with Mt5 seamlessly ( function-ability should be same, not just proprietor change).

as you said
Quote
I pity those who stuck with NT. We will be say the same thing about Metaquotes in five years. Traders of course have a different point of view, but from the comments I have read, the changes will not affect the majority.

100% correct. Major are looser. so be it Mt5 or Mt20 ..no problem . It has impact on those who survived with profit in last 10 years with Mt4 but if Mt4 exists ..coders,developers loosing revenue . So now Metaquotes being more friendly for coders but less for traders at-least for those who traded with Metaquotes earlier versions(with consistent profits).
Never Gamble Forex
  • #278
  • Jan 4, 2017 11:41pm Jan 4, 2017 11:41pm
Quoting CodeMeister
Just to reinforce what Jensitzig pointed out in post 268, most MQL4 code will compile and run under MQL5. Of course you have to have the source code. All of my indicators compiled without error and executed fine with no modification. As far as EAs, all of mine were failures just like most of everyone else's, so I had no interest in them going forward. The new code I am writing is targeted for MQL5 and it has not been a challenge to learn the new features so far. Something to think about. All code suffers code rot. It quickly deteriorates after a...

MQL5 code is rather easy to work with, and the new platform cannot possibly be worse that MT4...

Concerning rewrite / converting from mq4 to mq5 out of the thousands of indicators and EAs that have been written in mq4 only a tiny tiny number of them (I am being generous) are of any value.
  • #279
  • Jan 5, 2017 3:38am Jan 5, 2017 3:38am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} MQL5 code is rather easy to work with, and the new platform cannot possibly be worse that MT4... Concerning rewrite / converting from mq4 to mq5 out of the thousands of indicators and EAs that have been written in mq4 only a tiny tiny number of them (I am being generous) are of any value.
yes, that's a good point. Thousands of worthless indicators and EAs are build. That's like Darwinism for them, only the strong and worthy will be converted (hopefully).
  • #280
  • Jan 5, 2017 3:45am Jan 5, 2017 3:45am
Quoting JensItzig
{quote} yes, that's a good point. Thousands of worthless indicators and EAs are build. That's like Darwinism for them, only the strong and worthy will be converted (hopefully).
I'm affraid not.
If it were so easy to know the value of an indicator, this skimming process would have already begun under MT4.

That's not the good indicator that stays in the business, that's the good trader and the hooked loser.
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