Attachments: Multi-Lot Multi-Timeframe Position trading

Multi-Lot Multi-Timeframe Position trading

#1,441
Jul 18, 2016 12:52pm Jul 18, 2016 12:52pm

jgadefelth
| Joined Jan 2008 | Status: Trillion Dollar Man | 1,495 Posts

Also i read in another thread if we use maximum leverage (just on demo so no one screems crazy ) and we be able to move the first position to BE we then have the same leverage as we did before we enter a trade we can now use this supose we start 4 trades like this. Now my question in another thread a person say you can lose your whole account if price goes agaisnt you how is this possible if all my trades are at BE ? He say leverage works against me and i need only a small retrace to lose my account, can anyone explain please ? But i think forexsaint did something like this and was able to often get away with huge prfit ?

Best regards

#1,442
Jul 21, 2016 11:35am Jul 21, 2016 11:35am

Graviton
Joined Apr 2010 | Status: Trader | 1,101 Posts

Quoting jgadefelth

Disliked

Hi i have a question please. Am on page 35 and you talk about that 30-35 percent grow a year is very good but little earlier you say 3-5 percent per week is your goal and you usualy get it ??? so what is it ? Also i see your first thread on another forum and there your strategy seems different have you abondon that one in favor of this one ? Best regards

Ignored

Hi jgadefelth, thanks for the good question. Of course, I'd like to make 5% a week, and many weeks I do, but we have to be realistic. If the best money managers in the world make a consistent 30 to 35% a year, it's highly unlikely that I will be able to make 5% every week. More often than not, If you make a quick large gain, much if not most of it will be quickly taken back by the market. To beat those odds, we need to recognize what a large gain is, and change our strategy after we capture one. Of course we want to make a large gain, but after we have done that, our entire trading plan has to change to protect that large gain.

So, I look at it like this, if I'm fortunate enough to make 5% or more in a week, I'll take it and be very happy with it. More than once I have had that happen in just a couple days and took the profit quickly. Then, the challenge becomes to not lose back what I worked so hard for. If I've cashed in on a large 5% or more gain for the week early, like on Tuesday or Wed, I want to be extra careful and conservative for the remainder of the week and that might mean I don't take any more trades, or if I do, I greatly reduce my risk and watch them carefully to make sure I don't lose it all back. The goal is to NEVER take a large loss. Taking large losses makes it almost impossible to win over the long haul. We can discuss this more if you like.

As for my older thread on another forum, yes, my plan has evolved over the years. Most of that still applies, but I now use a more precise method. Thanks again for the good question. Best success - G

#1,443
Aug 10, 2016 12:23pm Aug 10, 2016 12:23pm

RedOak13
| Joined Aug 2016 | Status: Trader | 1 Post

Hello Graviton: I am new to this forum, so please understand that I don't yet know all the proper rules. I came to know your work on another forum and another thread from 2010 on a trading method using Bollinger Bands and specific types of expansions. I just happen to have developed a trading system on my own (before reading your thread) that was quite similar, and had very good live trading results. My question to you is have you made any changes to this system in the time since that thread ended (at least 6 years). And, can we talk about some of the finer points of using the Bollinger Bands. I find them invaluable to my trading, especially when coming out of a squeeze, or touching outside the band (the 2.0 standard deviation) for an entry for a new trade. Any discussion with you and others member of this thread would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

#1,444
Aug 18, 2016 5:58pm Aug 18, 2016 5:58pm

Graviton
Joined Apr 2010 | Status: Trader | 1,101 Posts

RedOak13, I don't trade with the Bollinger bands much anymore. I used it to trigger trades back in the day, but now I use the multi-timeframe trend to trigger trades. Both methods are basically entering on a breakout in the direction of the major trend. I'm happy to discuss anything here though. Best success!

#1,445
Nov 20, 2016 5:38am Nov 20, 2016 5:38am

JFleming
| Joined Nov 2016 | Status: Trader | 8 Posts

Hi, Graviton,

Thank you very much for sharing your excellent knowledge and experience with us! Reading your thread gives me more confidence to continue the challenging journey to become a consistently profitable forex trader.

You mentioned that one way you minimize risk when running multi-lot is to arrange the stops of the running lots to exit them as a whole at breakeven or with a small profit. You also mentioned that in order to hold winners longer one should use wide stops. Both methods make good sense. However, they also somehow contradict to each other. In practice, often, one has to choose one or the other. For example, when I look at the chf/jpy charts on page 60 and page 61, it appears to me that in this case when the retracement came, you kept holding the running lots rather than exiting them at breakeven or with a small profit. This turned out to be a good decision since it allowed you to take good profit a couple of weeks later. My question is do you have some guidelines as to in what circumstances one may choose one way over the other?

One thing this thread makes me to believe is that exit is much more important than entry. In a previous post, you mentioned the challenge of making efficient exits. Im really interested in this topic, because it seems to me efficient exit is really important when we use a wide hard stop. Id love to hear more from you on this topic.

Finally, you said you use RSI and 5ema/10sma to mechanically generate entry signals. Do you also use them (or other mechanic methods) to identify local peaks/troughs to take profits?

Many thanks!

JFleming

#1,446
Nov 21, 2016 1:47am Nov 21, 2016 1:47am

Tarfest
| Membership Revoked | Joined Jun 2016 | 27 Posts

To me using several time frames is not really the best for new traders especially using several smaller time frames. I do multi-time frame trading when I can to confirm and filter my signals.

#1,447
Nov 23, 2016 7:00pm Nov 23, 2016 7:00pm

JFleming
| Joined Nov 2016 | Status: Trader | 8 Posts

For someone trading on daily chart, timeframes below H1 are for entry optimization purpose only. The objective is to use these timeframes to enter a trade at a local trough (for long) or at a local peak (for short). The direction of the trade is determined by the higher timeframes such as monthly and weekly. Based on what Graviton suggested, it is actually quite easy to use the lower timeframes to achieve this.

#1,448
Dec 6, 2016 10:30am Dec 6, 2016 10:30am

Graviton
Joined Apr 2010 | Status: Trader | 1,101 Posts

Quoting JFleming

Disliked

Hi, Graviton, Thank you very much for sharing your excellent knowledge and experience with us! Reading your thread gives me more confidence to continue the challenging journey to become a consistently profitable forex trader. You mentioned that one way you minimize risk when running multi-lot is to arrange the stops of the running lots to exit them as a whole at breakeven or with a small profit. You also mentioned that in order to hold winners longer one should use wide stops. Both methods make good sense. However, they also somehow contradict to...

Ignored

Hi J, This thread hasn't been active in a while so I just saw your post. The first question you asked could be phrased as, should one trade shorter term with tighter stops and take many small wins, or longer term with wider stops for a few big wins. For me, that depends on the market action. If the market has low volatility and is rather range bound, smaller tighter stops are in order. That reduces risks from likely reversals. Once prices break out of previous ranges and volatility returns, one can slowly increase the stops and duration of the trades. Just be careful to drop back down in stop loss risk quickly when the market returns back to range bound, which it always will eventually. The market generally oscillates between trending and range bound. Trading tight stops when the market is trending strongly reduces profits a little, but it doesn't increase risk, so that is the default position. Trying to trade wide stops when the market is range bound will result in lots of whiplash losses and is very risky. I like trading longer duration trades, but if the market isn't strongly trending, and it only trends about 20% of the time, I have to settle for many small bites rather than a few big bites. This is a very good question and we can discuss it more if you like. I'll answer your other question about exits when I can get back to it. Best success! - G

#1,449
Dec 17, 2016 11:03am Dec 17, 2016 11:03am

breakthru56
| Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Trader | 96 Posts

Quoting Graviton

Disliked

{quote} Hi J, This thread hasn't been active in a while so I just saw your post. The first question you asked could be phrased as, should one trade shorter term with tighter stops and take many small wins, or longer term with wider stops for a few big wins. For me, that depends on the market action. If the market has low volatility and is rather range bound, smaller tighter stops are in order. That reduces risks from likely reversals. Once prices break out of previous ranges and volatility returns, one can slowly increase the stops and duration...

Ignored

Hi Graviton
I just bumped on on yor lovely and VERY POWERFUL trading system. Having completed reading all your said in this thread, I realised that we have a similar tarding method. I firmly belive in MTF trading and (with no offence to anyone), I do not believe there is any other better trading method than this.

Have been trading on crude oil for 4.5 years now.

Here is one downside with mtf trading+++++, MANUALLY it can be a challenge but ok. All that's needed is an EA that can trigger orders as follows:

A) TFMs : Market price > MN1_OPEN & W1_OPEN & D1_OPEN & H4_OPEN & H1_OPEN & M30_OPEN & M15_OPEN & M5_OPEN & M1_OPEN == BUY
(( Do the same for SELL with opposite <. ))

B) We do the same for HIGH ----LOW----CLOSE------MEAN (( NB these OHLCM LEVELS are previous candles (shift 1))

NOW: The major challenge with this EA is coding it so that its activated on ONE chart rather than have multiple charts each for open the other for high and the other for low etc.

Am not a coder. But I have a similar idea as yours but powered by an (OHLCM) EA. Have attempted creating one to no avail.

How would you suggest we get this coded??

Thanks so much for giving this suggestion your attention

#1,450
Dec 17, 2016 6:06pm Dec 17, 2016 6:06pm

JFleming
| Joined Nov 2016 | Status: Trader | 8 Posts

Quoting Graviton

Disliked

{quote} Hi J, This thread hasn't been active in a while so I just saw your post. The first question you asked could be phrased as, should one trade shorter term with tighter stops and take many small wins, or longer term with wider stops for a few big wins. For me, that depends on the market action. If the market has low volatility and is rather range bound, smaller tighter stops are in order. That reduces risks from likely reversals. Once prices break out of previous ranges and volatility returns, one can slowly increase the stops and duration...

Ignored

Hi, Graviton, sorry for the late reply. Thanks for your post. In your trading, how do you define a shorter term trade or a longer term trade? My situation doesn't allow me to take a trade lasting less than a day. I would more likely look for trades that last a couple of days to a couple of weeks. I believe your multi-TF multi-lot trading method is well suited for longer term trading. For stop setting, as you said, it should be based on market volatility. Generally, a market can be in one of three situations: 1) in a spike, 2) in a trading range, 3) in a channel which is a sloping trading range. I used to use ATR to manage stops, but after some comparison, I now think your suggestion of using the second or third recent swing high/low is a better one. Now let's apply this method to each of the situations. If a market is in a spike (an impulse move), theoretically, the stop loss should be beyond the start of the spike because if price retraces to that point, the breakout has failed and our original entry premise is no longer valid. However, such a stop loss could be large, so we may adopt a tighter stop setting method such as placing the stop loss below the second recent tiny swing low (for long) if there is one or below Guppy count back line (basically a three-bar low). If the market is in a trading range and it is tight, I would avoid placing a stop loss inside that range. So one method is to take the lower edge of the trading range as the first swing low and place the stop below the prior lower swing low. If the stop size is too large, we can also take the lower edge of the trading range and use that to find the Guppy count back line which will give a much tighter stop below the trading range. If the market is in a bullish channel, the price is making higher highs and higher lows, the method of placing stop below the second recent swing low should work well, especially if that swing low is close to the lower edge of the channel. Depending upon how big or small we want our stop size to be, we can go through different time frames to find one that offers a good support zone and a suitable stop size and use that to place our stop. To me, these offer a set of reasonable methods to place stop in all market situations. In practice, of course, one still has other issues to resolve, for example, how to determine a trading range or a channel, etc.

Finding a good stop location needs to make balance between minimizing risk and providing enough room for the trade to develop. I used to have tight stops because I was afraid of losing. Now my bias is towards having relatively wide stop to allow a trade to develop. The stop setting methods described above are for this purpose. However, these methods are not without their own shortcomings. Due to news announcements, cascade stop hitting, or sometimes vacuum effect (one side simply stand aside, waiting for price to move to a support or resistance zone then enter in opposite direction), a market can make sudden and sharp retracements and then we end up with a relatively large loss. We can say that this is the price we have to pay, but are there reasonable signs that can warn us earlier so as to reduce the losses? I'd love to hear your and other's suggestions.

JFleming

#1,451
Dec 18, 2016 3:14am Dec 18, 2016 3:14am

ezcurrency
Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Experienced Trader 19+ yrs | 545 Posts

Quoting breakthru56

Disliked

{quote} Hi Graviton I just bumped on on yor lovely and VERY POWERFUL trading system. Having completed reading all your said in this thread, I realised that we have a similar tarding method. I firmly belive in MTF trading and (with no offence to anyone), I do not believe there is any other better trading method than this. Have been trading on crude oil for 4.5 years now. Here is one downside with mtf trading+++++, MANUALLY it can be a challenge but ok. All that's needed is an EA that can trigger orders as follows: A) TFMs : Market price > MN1_OPEN...

Ignored

I modified one of my EA's to do the above:
A) TFMs : Market price > MN1_OPEN & W1_OPEN & D1_OPEN & H4_OPEN & H1_OPEN & M30_OPEN & M15_OPEN & M5_OPEN & M1_OPEN == BUY (( Do the same for SELL with opposite <. ))

As far as running multiple pairs on 1 chart ... my EA can't do that. I did add an auto magic #, so magic # automatically adjusts for each pair. You can set EA with this option, then set template as default with EA attached, and open charts for all major pairs and crosses (28 or so), and it will automatically change magic #.

I'll post source code here after Sunday open, as I want to make sure it displays info correctly.

EZ

#1,452
Dec 18, 2016 3:30am Dec 18, 2016 3:30am

dragonexpert
| Membership Revoked | Joined Feb 2016 | 590 Posts

Quoting ezcurrency

Disliked

{quote} I modified one of my EA's to do the above: A) TFMs : Market price > MN1_OPEN & W1_OPEN & D1_OPEN & H4_OPEN & H1_OPEN & M30_OPEN & M15_OPEN & M5_OPEN & M1_OPEN == BUY (( Do the same for SELL with opposite <. )) As far as running multiple pairs on 1 chart ... my EA can't do that. I did add an auto magic #, so magic # automatically adjusts for each pair. You can set EA with this option, then set template as default with EA attached, and open charts for all major pairs and crosses (28 or so), and it will automatically change magic #. I'll post...

Ignored

So when all candle green in multiple timeframe buy and opposite for sell?

Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing.

#1,453
Dec 18, 2016 5:13pm Dec 18, 2016 5:13pm

breakthru56
| Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Trader | 96 Posts

Quoting ezcurrency

Disliked

{quote} I modified one of my EA's to do the above: A) TFMs : Market price > MN1_OPEN & W1_OPEN & D1_OPEN & H4_OPEN & H1_OPEN & M30_OPEN & M15_OPEN & M5_OPEN & M1_OPEN == BUY (( Do the same for SELL with opposite <. )) As far as running multiple pairs on 1 chart ... my EA can't do that. I did add an auto magic #, so magic # automatically adjusts for each pair. You can set EA with this option, then set template as default with EA attached, and open charts for all major pairs and crosses (28 or so), and it will automatically change magic #. I'll post...

Ignored

ezcurrency

This is good news ez. But if I may ask, did you include in the EA other TFs? What do I mean.
Ok, we now know that TFs MN1, W1 and D1 sometimes move in opposite direction. So (most times) you may see D1 moving in same direction with all of its lower time frames (H4 down to M1). As a result we need our EA to plough as follows:
a) MN1 ..........down to M1.
b) W1 ............down to M1.
c) D1.............down to M1.
d) H4..............down to M1
All 4 setups in 1 EA. That way the EA is able to lock in all pips (with very minimal loses at retrace levels only) for very high profit yields.

I know this is a bit of a 1 sleepless night but the results are much much higher than manual trading.
I agree its tough to put all in one EA but certainly there is a way. Coder like you can easly do that, am sure. All you have to do is use O-H-L-C and Mean of each TF.

Otherwise what you said is very good and promising. Lets keep posting.

Many heads can move mountains

#1,454
Dec 18, 2016 5:20pm Dec 18, 2016 5:20pm

breakthru56
| Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Trader | 96 Posts

Quoting dragonexpert

Disliked

{quote} So when all candle green in multiple timeframe buy and opposite for sell?

Ignored

dragonexpert

Thats very true. Manually best entries at SR levels.... cross ma etc, but with an EA, orders flow like water when all candles allign (red or blue)

#1,455
Dec 18, 2016 5:33pm Dec 18, 2016 5:33pm

ezcurrency
Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Experienced Trader 19+ yrs | 545 Posts

OK. See attached. There are 4 entry options based upon trend alignments. There is currently no exit criteria, but that can be easy to add. I did put a trailing SL feature though, but set to 0 to deactivate. Also there is auto magic #, so you can save this EA on a default template, then open multiple charts for many pairs, and magic # changes automatically.

Regards,
EZ

Attached File(s)

Multi_Trend_v1.0.mq4 20 KB | 343 downloads

#1,456
Dec 18, 2016 6:44pm Dec 18, 2016 6:44pm

breakthru56
| Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Trader | 96 Posts

Quoting ezcurrency

Disliked

OK. See attached. There are 4 entry options based upon trend alignments. There is currently no exit criteria, but that can be easy to add. I did put a trailing SL feature though, but set to 0 to deactivate. Also there is auto magic #, so you can save this EA on a default template, then open multiple charts for many pairs, and magic # changes automatically. Regards, EZ {file}

Ignored

ezcurrency

This is awesome work. You certainly are a giant in coding.

Just downloaded it. I will also test it and keep you posted. I also like the magic number system. Or by the way, what do you think if we add 1 lwma- close and 1 lwma-open-shift1 (for micro candle movements) for crosses(above/below)=buy/sell and exits @ ma crosses(downwards/upwards)

Let me dive into testing and come back to you during the day ( even though here in UK I should be asleep by now)

All the same, you are a star

#1,457
Dec 18, 2016 9:06pm Dec 18, 2016 9:06pm

breakthru56
| Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Trader | 96 Posts

Quoting ezcurrency

Disliked

OK. See attached. There are 4 entry options based upon trend alignments. There is currently no exit criteria, but that can be easy to add. I did put a trailing SL feature though, but set to 0 to deactivate. Also there is auto magic #, so you can save this EA on a default template, then open multiple charts for many pairs, and magic # changes automatically. Regards, EZ {file}

Ignored

ezcurrency

With all due respect, and please correct me if my sleepy head is misunderstanding this: Got a feeling I should have said MPRICE>MN1_CLOSE && W1_CLOSE.....down to M1_CLOSE.

I should have said CLOSE instead of OPEN.

Also, is it possible to(per TF), include HIGH, LOW and MEAN, for all (O-H-L-C-M) for activation on one chart.

Otherwise so far testing it on demo OILUSD nothing has yet happened. Still testing

Cheers EZ

#1,458
Dec 19, 2016 1:14am Dec 19, 2016 1:14am

ezcurrency
Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Experienced Trader 19+ yrs | 545 Posts

I changed open to close in the logic, and also added a time entry option. Right now its set 00:00 to 23:59 (all day), but if you want to trade certain hours you can now set that.

I was thinking of running on London open for all pairs for 5-6 hrs or so. I also have another EA (I need to look for it) to close all positions on all pairs once X dollar profit is hit. I was thinking if a few pairs start to trend, and we set profit at X (can be 2% of equity, or whatever we want), then the EA would close all positions to lock it in.

Breakthru: what do you mean by this:

Also, is it possible to(per TF), include HIGH, LOW and MEAN, for all (O-H-L-C-M) for activation on one chart.

I'm sure it can be added, but don't understand what you are saying.

EZ

Attached File(s)

Multi_Trend_v1.1.mq4 20 KB | 396 downloads

#1,459
Dec 19, 2016 5:00am Dec 19, 2016 5:00am

breakthru56
| Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Trader | 96 Posts

Breakthru: what do you mean by this: Also, is it possible to(per TF), include HIGH, LOW and MEAN, for all (O-H-L-C-M) for activation on one chart. I'm sure it can be added, but don't understand what you are saying. EZ {file}[/quote]

EZ

Often the MTF PREV_CLOSE alignments fails to capture sudden massive directional price changes living the last entries marooned for stoploss.
So the HIGH, LOW and MEAN are always on call to to take over from the PREV_CLOSE alignments. Setup coding will be same as before but as;

1) = OP_BUY
a) PRICE >( MN1_prevHIGH && W1_prevHIGH && D1_prevHIGH...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
b) PRICE > ( W1_prevHIGH && D1_prevHIGH...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
c) PRICE >( D1_prevHIGH...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
d)PRICE >( H4_prevHIGH...........+ all TF.........down to M1)

a) PRICE >( MN1_prevLOW && W1_prevLOW && D1_prevLOW...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
b) PRICE > ( W1_prevLOW && D1_prevLOW...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
c) PRICE >( D1_prevLOW...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
d)PRICE >( H4_prevLOW...........+ all TF.........down to M1)

a) PRICE >( MN1_prevMEAN && W1_prevMEAN && D1_prevMEAN..........+ all TF.........down to M1)
b) PRICE > ( W1_prevMEAN && D1_prevHIGH...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
c) PRICE >( D1_prevMEAN...........+ all TF.........down to M1)
d)PRICE >( H4_prevMEAN...........+ all TF.........down to M1)

2) = OP_SELL (We do the opposite of (1)

This is an endeavour to lock_in profits whatever direction price migt take........( see pics attacched)