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How far is your Stop loss

  • #21
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:24pm Aug 30, 2006 8:24pm
Niceguy, the proof is in the value of your account, is it up from the point where you think you finally cracked the system ??? if so it works for you!!

Maybe not for anyone else ofcourse.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #22
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:28pm Aug 30, 2006 8:28pm
Hello Turveyd,

I see you have refered to moving your stops to "save" a trade. I don't know what your systems is but in any strategy I have ever used, there is a specific reason and place where the system or stategy says buy. And, there must be a specific point at which the speculated move is considered failed. Just below that is where the stop generally lives. I think it is imperative that you know those parameters going in. If you know them going in then that is it. Let it play out. You have no reason to fiddle with the stops because that is all pre-determined. END OF STORY.

Another thing to consider is how you feel when you take a loser. You probably feel very negative. Turn that around. I take pride in controlling the size of my losses. You must say to yourself: "yeah, that one went against me, but I followed my plan and preserved my capital. Good job man! that's good discipline!". It helps keep things positive and lets you feel confident in your next trade.

Hope that helps
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #23
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:31pm Aug 30, 2006 8:31pm
Turveyd, a lot of what you say is true in my experience. The industry may have a lot to answer for, but let's not get into that. We can work the system to our advantage if we try a little.

My framework isn't a system. It's just a framework. You can apply any system you like to it if you want to, and it will still give you useful information. Or you can just trade using it on its own. The point here is, as Mr Trend was alluding to, it is not so much the system as your mind that determines if you win or lose. The best system in the world can easily be screwed up by even the most intelligent person - even its inventor - if his mind isn't in the right place.

So, I see 'stop loss' as 'stop profit' because for me it has worked like that. Get your head in the right place, and have a simple, visual frame of reference to trade by, and you are OK.

The framework is there; we just have to work on our frame of mind.
  • #24
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:38pm Aug 30, 2006 8:38pm
see my avatar.


Yacob I dive the market without Fear.
  • #25
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:42pm Aug 30, 2006 8:42pm
NiceGuy, got a good system, well a Map really using 24hour, 12hour, 2hour, 1hour and 30min SMA + a envelope range based around the 30min, as I say in Demo I just can't stop making Virtual $$$'s, in real life different story, fully agree winning / losing is all about the state of mind, how you react or don't as the case may be.


FXOppertunist, totally agree got into the mind set of not wanting to lose trades as I've lost a few, so in a attempt not to lose a trade I'm exposing myself to in some cases 3 - 4 times the losses I should limit myself to.

This is my current state of mind to over come, before I'm a truely long term profitable trader ( Sure some other previous gremlin will come back to spoil this, then eventually this problem again LOL )

Live, Learn and Forget, but atleast I Live.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #26
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:48pm Aug 30, 2006 8:48pm
Quoting FXopportunist

Another thing to consider is how you feel when you take a loser. You probably feel very negative. Turn that around. I take pride in controlling the size of my losses. You must say to yourself: "yeah, that one went against me, but I followed my plan and preserved my capital. Good job man! that's good discipline!". It helps keep things positive and lets you feel confident in your next trade.

Hope that helps
I like it!
The framework is there; we just have to work on our frame of mind.
  • #27
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:54pm Aug 30, 2006 8:54pm
Yep it be the way to look at it for sure.

A good trade isn't necassarily a winning trade, as not all trades can or ever will win, doing my/your best for the trade is what counts, thats entry position and exit position.

( add Quality of trade Column to my excel spread sheet -10 to +10 and win or lose on the day $$$'s wise, if this is positive, I did my best )
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #28
  • Aug 30, 2006 8:58pm Aug 30, 2006 8:58pm
On my new fangled trade marking system, outta a max mark of 60points I scored a total of 1 LOL


Not a good day, but Positive just LOL
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #29
  • Aug 30, 2006 9:00pm Aug 30, 2006 9:00pm
Staying upto 3am brain storming trading likely isn't helping either, did get out for a MTB ride earlier though, shame I got 5miles away and got nagged into coming back LOL
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #30
  • Aug 31, 2006 9:09am Aug 31, 2006 9:09am
Well stuck to my stop rules today, I think small losses frequently is more managable than huge losses.

Breaking even so far really ( down 20pips ), but was trading smart ( towards the end )



Over to my next problem LOL which is not holding long enough, then I'm golden

thanks all, for helping drum in the stops thingy.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #31
  • Aug 31, 2006 10:02am Aug 31, 2006 10:02am
Quoting niceguy777
The perennial question!

Personally, I tend not to use them - but that isn't advice. The reason is the same as for trailing stops which aparsai was just talking about.

The currencies move in a fluid way according to the fractal patterns that you can see when you apply the Absolute Fibonacci Framework. They stick, turn and pause on or around these lines, and the lines are not equally spaced. Therefore, if you have a strict stop loss policy of a certain number of pips, you will get knocked out of lots of trades - often unnecessarily. And that's really annoying. If you know where the framework is, there's less of a worry around 'loss', since you expect them to retrace to certain points, and if they do, you feel better because that confirms wheich part of the framework they are on.

I sometimes use 'stop wins'. That is, once I am in a trade, if I don't want to watch it or I want to completely forget about the charts for a while and go and eat, sleep or whatever, I'll just put a stop somewhere that keeps me in profit should I have mis-read something.
I like your term "stop win"
  • #32
  • Aug 31, 2006 10:08am Aug 31, 2006 10:08am
I don't use stops either. For me, placing a stop indicates that I shouldn't be in a trade to begin with. I will either manually exit or reverse as market conditions change. This works with my beliefe system about the markets, but I wouldn't advise it to anyone unless they have tremendous confidence in their ability to watch and interpret the markets in a rational and detached manner. Also, trading half the size you are comfortable with does wonders for your equity growth. Its a remarkable paradox, at least in my own trading. The smaller I trade, the more steadily my account grows.

-Liz
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #33
  • Aug 31, 2006 10:28am Aug 31, 2006 10:28am
What will you do when a 9/11 hits again and you have no stops? What will you do when your broker doesn't execute your trade because one of his links or his system went down? What will you do when the unexpected happens?

What if you were trading silver a few months ago when it crashed and all of the spreads went up to 2000 in seconds?

Sorry folks, but trading with no stop is a clear sign that you can't let go of predictive nature. And trying to predict the markets will inevitably ruin your account.

Of course, you're going to do what you want and when you do lose big, you'll remember this thread. I promise you that.
Mr. Trend
  • #34
  • Aug 31, 2006 1:31pm Aug 31, 2006 1:31pm
Quoting Turveyd
Well stuck to my stop rules today, I think small losses frequently is more managable than huge losses.

Breaking even so far really ( down 20pips ), but was trading smart ( towards the end )



Over to my next problem LOL which is not holding long enough, then I'm golden

thanks all, for helping drum in the stops thingy.
It's been a nice thread! Good luck. Hope you can hold it longer (!) and hang on to it when you get it!
The framework is there; we just have to work on our frame of mind.
  • #35
  • Aug 31, 2006 2:59pm Aug 31, 2006 2:59pm
Thank you all for posting to the thread, would love to hear from more people if they use or dont use stop loss's how far and whats there reasons.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #36
  • Aug 31, 2006 3:36pm Aug 31, 2006 3:36pm
Quoting palabara
Thank you all for posting to the thread, would love to hear from more people if they use or dont use stop loss's how far and whats there reasons.
Primary reason for stop loss: Safety Valve.

I expect profitable, winning trades. Yet it is the unexpected as my friend Mr. Trend so aptly observed, that gets you in the end.

Somewhere lurking in the background is that good ole' chaos theory, just prowling about, seeking someone to devour. Stop losses close one more loophole, minimize that much more risk.
  • #37
  • Sep 1, 2006 5:10am Sep 1, 2006 5:10am
Well lets see how today goes, can I break the losing cycle, do I have to conserve cash and trade uggggg demo for abit.




and as to no stops, niceguys got a 50/50 chance of being on the right side of a 9/11 type event, so statisically over 10 such events he'll be pretty much breaking even.

Also by making less actual trades, he is reducing his costs spread / commision wise, my account is barely up at the moment, but my spreads cost me over $1000.



If I had enough money in the account, I'd likely trade stopless to, but as I have to, tight stops it be, might open a $0.10 lot sized account to do just this though.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #38
  • Sep 1, 2006 8:41am Sep 1, 2006 8:41am
Quoting Turveyd
Well lets see how today goes, can I break the losing cycle, do I have to conserve cash and trade uggggg demo for abit.
Nothing bad with going back to Demo, i also once when i had to go back to Demo account viewed it as kick in the sack persay but on demo account you can develop your skills without haveing to risk your account and test out your streadgys and see how they will do without having to risk your account on it, cause its better not to win anything at all then to lose everything at once.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #39
  • Sep 1, 2006 11:20am Sep 1, 2006 11:20am
Quoting niceguy777
The perennial question!

Personally, I tend not to use them - but that isn't advice. The reason is the same as for trailing stops which aparsai was just talking about.

The currencies move in a fluid way according to the fractal patterns that you can see when you apply the Absolute Fibonacci Framework. They stick, turn and pause on or around these lines, and the lines are not equally spaced. Therefore, if you have a strict stop loss policy of a certain number of pips, you will get knocked out of lots of trades - often unnecessarily. And that's really annoying. If you know where the framework is, there's less of a worry around 'loss', since you expect them to retrace to certain points, and if they do, you feel better because that confirms wheich part of the framework they are on.

I sometimes use 'stop wins'. That is, once I am in a trade, if I don't want to watch it or I want to completely forget about the charts for a while and go and eat, sleep or whatever, I'll just put a stop somewhere that keeps me in profit should I have mis-read something.
Ammm! Sounds very nice to me.
This first time to hear about Absolute Fibonacci Framework (actully most of the Forex stuff is new to me). But i like it.
Could you explain more about this framework, Please.
Or provide some links to learn more about this framework.
Thanks
  • #40
  • Sep 1, 2006 11:47am Sep 1, 2006 11:47am
Quoting palabara
Hello everyone.

I Made this thread which i assume has been made 1000's times already but why not make it 1001 : How far do you Put your stop loss? Do you put it 30 pips 50 pips? or go further and put it to 70 or 90 or even further? Tell us your stop loss and where you place it and why do you place it there?

Ill start off with i place my stop loss at Key Reversal points if its bull market im gona place it at Key Support point if its Bear market it im gona place it at key resistance point which can be as far as 125-200 pips sometimes more. I place it at special key points that market reachs when it Reverses from bull to bear or vice versa.

Tell us yours.
Niederhoffer doesn't use SL. It may be a bad policy, but I only enter SL when I am not watching my computer screen. There really isn't a standard SL (as far as pips); it all depends on how much of a move I expect, how much of a loss I will tolerate, etc. Keep in mind that I haven't been trading FOREX for the past 20 years.

Best.
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