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The Really Useless Thread

  • #145,701
  • Edited 8:58am Nov 28, 2016 8:42am | Edited 8:58am
Quoting Pharm0r
Voting against the establishment that has not represented the people and has only represented personal interest since the great depression does not equal racist and extremist. Trump and Brexit was not brought about by racists and extremists. It was brought about by non-representation . Now you lambaste the poor and uneducated as racist and extremist because they are tired of getting screwed and voted for the only outlet left available? Trump didn't get elected because everyone hates Mexicans, he got elected because everyone is tired of the same...
Reince Priebus because everyone is tired of same old government? Steve Bannon because it's not about anti immigrant?
He is already a puppet. Bannon called him the alt-right's "blunt instrument" and he has surrounded himself with lobbyists.
The 'outsider' is the oldest trick in the pol book.
Duped the minority who supported him. I don't doubt you are right about the motive for support. Just saying it was a lie. And made an easier sell by using the anti immigrant lines.
The poor and uneducated you describe will likely lose out the biggest on this "only outlet left". But as long as you play the right broken record from the stump, they will rally. Like so many lemmings before them.
  • #145,702
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:51am Nov 28, 2016 8:51am
Quoting Pharm0r
Voting against the establishment that has not represented the people and has only represented personal interest since the great depression does not equal racist and extremist. Trump and Brexit was not brought about by racists and extremists. It was brought about by non-representation . Now you lambaste the poor and uneducated as racist and extremist because they are tired of getting screwed and voted for the only outlet left available? Trump didn't get elected because everyone hates Mexicans, he got elected because everyone is tired of the same...
Amen.
  • #145,703
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:58am Nov 28, 2016 8:58am
Quoting goosebone
{quote} Reince Priebus because everyone is tired of same old government? Steve Bannon because it's not about anti immigrant? He is already a puppet. Bannon called him the alt-right's "blunt instrument". The 'outsider' is the oldest trick in the pol book. Duped the minority who supported him. The poor and uneducated you describe will likely lose out the biggest on this. But as long as you play the right broken record from the stump, they will rally. Like so many lemmings before them.
We will get some more surprises in the coming years, and they will most likely not be positive for the average person. As if he would care.

Very well done for a person with personality that even he's own mother will have problem to love managed to win the election. It shows a little bit what he is capable of. Good thing is that it is possible greed that drive him more then power or any form of idealism. I bet he will be among the top 10 rich persons in the world during the next 10 years if he manage to sit the 4 years. ( And i expect the counting is correct for the votes. It is not so bad school system in US that people not manage basic counting )

Crazy world. Next dictator in the world is Erdogan that will use kind of the same strategy as another one did in 1933 to collect all power in the Turkey at one hand.

Long term outlook USD is sell, Long term gold is buy. Short term the exactly opposite.
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #145,704
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:59am Nov 28, 2016 8:59am
Quoting goosebone
{quote} Might be important to notice it's not only millennials out there. Plenty of your 40-50 year olds protesting. But I'm not sure why it's surprising anyone that there are protests. I can only imagine what kind of apeshit armed revolution we would be dealing with right now had DJT lost the electoral vote but won the popular by over 2 million. And before anyone replies with the lastest hitlary meme or link to a breaking snopes article proving she's a child trafficking shape-changer I'm not a Democrat I'm a realist so save it.
I can only speculate, but I'm pretty sure, police forces would actually do their job in the case you mentioned.
  • #145,705
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:09am Nov 28, 2016 9:09am
Quoting Mr Hatch
{quote} I can only speculate, but I'm pretty sure, police forces would actually do their job in the case you mentioned.
I'm sure you are right. Just meant to illustrate how it's not a special lefty thing these protests and outrage. Useless. But not special.
  • #145,706
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:34am Nov 28, 2016 9:34am
/CL up over a buck and oil will swing equities if that lube keeps coming. Wait for some Cyber Monday retail news and that will help jack if it is good. News of vote recounts will not matter much imo, as the recounts are not expected to change the results. But shit happens and the recounts could shed light on some systemic issues, snowball rolling downhill. Good old days Hitler could be goosestepping back and forth in front of the White House all day and Wall Street's bull market could keep on chugging. Maybe not so now, as fully wired and plugged-in population is more volatile, easier to incite. Easier to Control.

Anyway, a pullback would be good and I doubt the year's /ES highs are in. But tweet mode now in play and will be for next 4 years. Typical market gumminess in run-up to FOMC 2 weeks out...I had a good November, not eager to bactrack that trading a flat market now.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #145,707
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:36am Nov 28, 2016 9:36am
Quoting goosebone
{quote} I'm sure you are right. Just meant to illustrate how it's not a special lefty thing these protests and outrage. Useless. But not special.
I lost count on how many times the conceptions of left/right have changed during the past campaign, so I don't use that any more. The terms I'm trying to employ as a substitute are "person with common sense" and "idiot", makes it way easier.

btw... Martin Niemöller back then would be equivalent to who nowadays?

During the campaign I wasn't sure Trump would live to see the result, and I was quite sure Clinton would win... I was wrong on both. Thinking about it, I suddenly realized that you couldn't have a better measurement to let him finish the campaign in order to have actual numbers on how many people would like to see representation, no matter why or what aspect of Trumps speeches got to them.
Now, it is not an unknown anymore: basically half of the US has been neglected in intolerable ways for a democratic, free society - and guess what, there's outrage that this rug got lifted. And the result? "We need more of the same and prevent people from speaking their mind in the future".
The chain is only as strong as its weakest link, isn't it - no matter how hard you try to conceal that.

Economically it's a desaster, but none that the US isn't responsible for. The trade deals are terrible for anyone but the US, that boomerang had to come back.

Anyway, from my point of view Pharm0r nailed it. Racism/Extremism can be found in both camps, depends on how it is defined nowadays. A post-it note saying "Suck it up, pussies" is declared a hate-crime, so I don't have much hope.

Many countries will follow to seek out a leader, our great-grandparents would beat our asses with wooden sticks, and they'd be right about it. On the other hand, the established governments moved away from everything declared in Nuremberg, so I don't feel any sympathy.

btw... get back to trading folks, I was just passing through. See you next year
  • #145,708
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:54am Nov 28, 2016 9:54am
Quoting Mr Hatch
{quote} I lost count on how many times the conceptions of left/right have changed during the past campaign, so I don't use that any more. The terms I'm trying to employ as a substitute are "person with common sense" and "idiot", makes it way easier
Couldn't agree more with this. Appreciate your views on it all. Nothing wrong with a little politics squeaking it's way in here imo as its all pretty trading related at the moment. That said, my comments will likely get flagged shortly. Good luck.
  • #145,709
  • Nov 28, 2016 10:29am Nov 28, 2016 10:29am
Quoting goosebone
{quote} Reince Priebus because everyone is tired of same old government? Steve Bannon because it's not about anti immigrant? He is already a puppet. Bannon called him the alt-right's "blunt instrument" and he has surrounded himself with lobbyists. The 'outsider' is the oldest trick in the pol book. Duped the minority who supported him. I don't doubt you are right about the motive for support. Just saying it was a lie. And made an easier sell by using the anti immigrant lines. The poor and uneducated you describe will likely lose out the biggest...
I don't disagree with you there, which is why I said the real worry is what comes if the outsider (Trump) turns out to be a phony....
or if Brexit doesn't go through....The already poked bear that is the unrepresented wont be too pleased....

On the news this week....Looking over the past US numbers, both the current trend and month to month trends point to inline or better for ADP, Non Farm, and Unemployment
  • #145,710
  • Nov 28, 2016 10:42am Nov 28, 2016 10:42am
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} if the outsider (Trump) turns out to be a phony.... or if Brexit doesn't go through....The already poked bear that is the unrepresented wont be too pleased...
Agree. But I would add that the very same bear gets the unmentionable kind of poke when Brexit goes through and/or many of DJT'S plans are made from rhetoric into law. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. Wouldnt be the 1000th time.
  • #145,711
  • Nov 28, 2016 11:25am Nov 28, 2016 11:25am
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} I don't disagree with you there, which is why I said the real worry is what comes if the outsider (Trump) turns out to be a phony.... or if Brexit doesn't go through....The already poked bear that is the unrepresented wont be too pleased.... On the news this week....Looking over the past US numbers, both the current trend and month to month trends point to inline or better for ADP, Non Farm, and Unemployment
Perhaps a large surge on USD on good numbers, pricing in larger possibility of rate hike. On the other hand....not sure about bear reaction. Might be useful for those who are already in on macro play XUSD.
  • #145,712
  • Nov 28, 2016 12:37pm Nov 28, 2016 12:37pm
NY pull the hand break today and we got a choppy session. Wont last for long, markets are on a hurry and macro flows well underway from last couple of weeks....

Not much to see or do across the board, no break, no shake no nothing. Tracking 1.061x as only level in play for this week (M roll)...

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #145,713
  • Nov 28, 2016 1:09pm Nov 28, 2016 1:09pm
Quoting Pharm0r
Voting against the establishment ...
'Rejection of the establishment is one of those nice PR/Marketing messages that never manage to understood (maybe I would hesitate to think for a few secs with a black President with a muslim name will cut it but with Trump???)how the average Joe swallow it without even blinking.

What does it mean? who is exactly the establishment? ... being educated is establishment? or being non male white ?, maybe leaving in a particular city? believe in free markets? a equal society ? somebody concern about the environment? a jew, a muslim , a atheist? or just because the Clinton are the establishment you should set your country back to the mediaval times? what and who is? exactly is than non sense...

--> How the election of a mega rich white stale male, ivy league property magnate, big city and money, surrounded by a handful of dinosaurs politicians that have been in power for decades represent a challenge to the establishment? .he is the establishment !!!!. ..I keep snatching my head ....

-->Same applies to the Brexiters, with May and the 12 monkeys from oxbridge, the elite of the elite, some representing centuries of the 'privileged' class in the UK, that still believe the UK is the only Empire in the world and want to leave the country stuck and back in time to 19th and 18th century represent the rejection establishment. They are the establishment !!!! and in the UK the establishment extend a few centuries ....

Never mind, i never understood either why people fall for those "lose 50 pounds in 24 hours programmes after the enlarge 2x your penis with this pill didnt work.

Ignorance is the mother of all evils and if you know how to exploit it you can make lots of money .or run for President.

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #145,714
  • Nov 28, 2016 1:13pm Nov 28, 2016 1:13pm
Quoting sisse
{quote} 'Rejection of the establishment is one of those nice PR/Marketing messages that never manage to understood (maybe I would hesitate to think for a few secs with a black President with a muslim name will cut it but Trump?)how the average Joe swallow it without even blinking. What does it mean? who is exactly the establishment? ... being educated is establishment? or being non male white ?, maybe leaving in a particular city? believe in free markets? a equal society ? somebody concern about the environment? a jew, a muslim , a atheist? or just...

I would press "like" button much more times here if I could!
PVSRA
  • #145,715
  • Nov 28, 2016 1:32pm Nov 28, 2016 1:32pm
high-yield is my canary in a coal mine - "credit anticipates, equity confirms"
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"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #145,716
  • Nov 28, 2016 1:39pm Nov 28, 2016 1:39pm
Quoting sisse
{quote} 'Rejection of the establishment is one of those nice PR/Marketing messages that never manage to understood (maybe I would hesitate to think for a few secs with a black President with a muslim name will cut it but with Trump???)how the average Joe swallow it without even blinking. What does it mean? who is exactly the establishment? ... being educated is establishment? or being non male white ?, maybe leaving in a particular city? believe in free markets? a equal society ? somebody concern about the environment? a jew, a muslim , a atheist?...
Establishment has nothing to do with the race, money, gay right or whatsoever. It is not defined by outside reasons as was put there. It is simply the status quo that is defined trough near term historical policies that are applied to many parts of goverment. Just becouse there are 100 white guys running for president, a single black guy doesnt mean that is counter establisment, this is not how establishment is defined. Trump is not part of establishment becouse he is in top part of max gainers in US. In fact around the word there are top part of world gainers that are on black hit list of US policy for years and years, from those that actually are forming the establishment part. It is important to define the word "status quo", what does it mean, how it is represented, only then you can define establishment.
Certain charasteristics will apply to certain group of people, you cant randomly put the variables out as yes they will align to certain sides, but still mean very little.
Are majority of establishment people living in specific city? Yes. It has always been the case in every single superpower in history, the power in concentrated in single city where the long term establishment draws the plans. Are those people more educted than majority of the rest? Absolutely no doubt about it. You cant run the system without having at least the equal level of crowd. Free markets? Not really, the point of establishment is control, control of markets always leads too.....
The principle of singular or multiple human/society variables is what CIA has been very succesfully using for number of years, characterize certain "bad" or "evil" person with something that you define as enemy of the state. It works very good, in fact its pattern that works so good, that it didnt need any change in text book for decades, even century used before.

I dont know the votes that were gained on Brexit/Trump due to this or that, but i am fairly sure majority that voted against establishment did vote with upper explained view, altough pretty sure that was minority of vote. Many times the vote against establishment in eyes of crowd is just seen as vote for something else, different, they dont care how it will pan out, thats how majority of voters operate, they just want change. This is part of evolution of animals, not just humans. Then once they see nothing has changed after their vote....wait for it....here is best part.....they learn nothing. They do same thing again.
  • #145,717
  • Edited 2:56pm Nov 28, 2016 2:28pm | Edited 2:56pm
I think in the case of America and this conversation- "the establishment" is synonymous with "politician"

It's the working middle class (aka the blue collar white man) that is hit hardest by trade agreements, outsourcing, and welfare programs, taxes.. That's who voted Trump in, and I can't blame them....they haven't been represented by the government, despite EVERY politician to ever run saying they would raise up the middle class. It isn't that they are racists or idiots- they don't feel represented.

If you ask me, the voting democracy worked exactly as intended, doesn't necessarily mean for the best....nor have I tried to argue that Trump was any better than Hillary..

Now lets see if the Dems are able to dismantle the system and elect Hillary over Trump....wouldn't that be one hell of a show...
  • #145,718
  • Nov 28, 2016 2:33pm Nov 28, 2016 2:33pm
Quoting janpec1000
...e. Many times the vote against establishment in eyes of crowd is just seen as vote for something else, different, they dont care how it will pan out, thats how majority of voters operate, they just want change. This is part of evolution of animals, not just humans. Then once they see nothing has changed after their vote....wait for it....here is best part.....they learn nothing. They do same thing again.
I don't really disagree with most your premises. You sound like an educated and intelligent person.

You are coming from a very well formed opinion about social classes and the relation between states, markets and society. I particularly find them valid but way too 'left' ideologically for my personal taste to share your views.

We can discuss and have a healthy exchange of comments on this for pages and pages, however your well rounded opinion doesn't remotely represent the mental process of the average 'anti-establishment' voter in the last UK and US election and more importantly it hides the very well informed extreme right groups and scumbags groups that are fishing and moving the ropes in the background, benefiting and moving their sick agendas all now covered in the 'name of democracy'...

We may not want to check the actual reasons (in the case of the UK mostly lies) 'facts', sources and 'reasons' a large majority [not all obviously] of the brexitrumpeters that voted 'against' the establishment, as just glancing at the headlines on any of the UK tabloids everyday makes any decent human being feel sick...

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #145,719
  • Nov 28, 2016 2:43pm Nov 28, 2016 2:43pm
Quoting sisse
"lose 50 pounds in 24 hours programmes after the enlarge 2x your penis with this pill"
You nail it with this, sisse. People are much smarter than you think. When the alternative is cutting the penis off, who wouldn't chose "hope", no matter what is coming at a later point in time?

Years ago, I collected negative points because of people complaining, when I said, Erdogan is a dictator, and again, when I said, Obama is the 1st black president - full stop, nothing more positive to see with him.

Clinton stated, she is going to war with Russia (no-fly zone bs etc.), while Trump said the opposite. Who'd vote for Clinton?
Both candidates used techniques that Hitler successfully employed to get to the top of a nation. Clinton stated "individualism is dead, society comes first" and Trump is going to build the wall. Poor voter knows that bread on the table is more important at the moment.

There is nothing more to see or understand, and unfortunately it will repeat itself in many more countries. The resulting fragmentation is what people want, be it a dumb decision or not. At one point, the intellectual folks have to step aside and go on holiday for some time.

Don't fall for the "establishment-trap". The whole debate about race, gender is a debate that doesn't fill your stomach, and people know that and make the decision that (hopefully) gets your stomach filled.
We (over here) are very experienced concerning this topic, trust me.

btw: Tides are shifting again. Our press is praising a French "Pro-Putin-"candidate (Fillon). Anything to stop LePen from rising...

In politics, you'll never get a majority for policies that benefit the majority of the people.
  • #145,720
  • Nov 28, 2016 2:51pm Nov 28, 2016 2:51pm
Quoting Mr Hatch
{quote} You nail it with this, sisse....... In politics, you'll never get a majority for policies that benefit the majority of the people.
Plato may have preferred it said differently...

In Democracy, you'll never get a majority for policies that benefit the majority of the people.
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