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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #21,881
  • Nov 27, 2016 8:38am Nov 27, 2016 8:38am
Quoting GetThatPip
Hello my my friend harmonics1976, thanks so much for bringing up this subject which lots of novice traders even experienced ones struggle with no matter how good the method is. I know you d like to hear specifically from Mr pip s input about trading psychology and I don't want to sound like I'm talking on his behalf but from watching his videos and being a long time follower of this thread I can tell you that Mr pip is not perfect either there are times when he gets losses I remember one time he had a bad week accumulated more than 80 points worth...
Very well said, like the many other post here on what may be the toughest part of trading the psychology. It can be a bag of bricks if you let it. I will do my best to do it justice is a video. I have enjoyed reading all of the posts on the topic and agree with them. If you notice they all share a similarity that ties it down to us the individual and how we handle the changes that the market throws at us.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #21,882
  • Nov 27, 2016 9:32am Nov 27, 2016 9:32am
There is really no quick fix to this,no matter how many times you coach ppl and no matter how many videos you watch or books you read about pschology traders ll still fall prey to their own demons.in my opinions discipline is enforced through continous trial and errors until one build that inner intuition voice that ll guide you and tell you not to do it everytime the danger is sensed.
Personnaly I been burnt many many times ,but Im getting better at it as I build experience and Im sure one day Ill be completly healed.
  • #21,883
  • Nov 27, 2016 10:18am Nov 27, 2016 10:18am
Quoting stavrogijn
{quote} Seeing your trades I have must say they seem to work out even when you take a breakout trade (like I have seen once or twice) or play the opening in your unique way. Knowing your study intensive and diligent approach to trading from many posts, I would reason that you incorporate some additional ways of analysis that make a trade (that would seem aggressive when only the analytical instruments from this thread are applied) have a clear positive expectancy.
Yeah that's typically what I mean when I say a trade is aggressive although I also consider trades aggressive if you're going against expectation.

While expectations, order flow, bar by bar, and structure are always at the heart of my analysis, some additional analysis I use that is obvious on my charts are the ON levels along with prior close and daily open.

Some additional analysis that I use which is not always obvious on my charts consists of watching DOM order flow for YM and ES, and I also like to be aware of what the VIX is doing. Additionally, sometimes I add in some chart patterns and info that I've picked up throughout my trading journey (such as wedges retracing close to 100% the majority of the time, ending diagonals, accordion consolidations and where they occur, untested breakouts or breakdowns as targets, trapped traders, 5wave corrections, 1st impulse extensions to locate better trade entry etc...). So there is additional psychology regarding these ancillary details and how it applies to the main pillars of trade analysis that we've been taught in here.

Quoting Wolves77
{quote} hey mack, don't want to tread on anyones toes here, but i've noticed you've mentioned a few times that having a daily target like jmezz is a good idea, but have to disagree. from the post's so far, the psychological issues people are having is because they are trading their p&l. having a daily target, like 20-30 points each day, is just another, more subtle way, of trading your p/l. for your average trader the markets just don't work that way. this is just my opinion, but rather than saying 'ok, today im looking to make 20-30 points' it...
Quoting Mack2013
{quote} I think you missed the point. Sure you can look at a daily quota as a play on P&L but that's you. I like to think that it builds confidence. Success / winning breeds confidence. The more confident you are in your strategy the more likely you will to follow your rules and have faith in your system. But if your losing either or won't help you. I believe jmezz uses the quota not for profit taking anyway but rather to eliminate over trading and not to take unnecessary risk. Anyway, the point I was making was that you got to be open to ideas...
"I believe jmezz uses the quota not for profit taking anyway but rather to eliminate over trading and not to take unnecessary risk." - This.

I remember Damian stating recently that picking and choosing swings will lower success rate and to some degree I agree, however keeping the quota in mind has improved my success rate substantially. I think that there is a difference between picking and choosing swings vs qualifying swings, which is what keeping a quota in mind allows me to do a bit more easily as having that question of "Will this trade net me 20pts?" helps to keep things in perspective. Although, I do lose sight of this sometimes with the trades that I take, there's always something to work on right? Haha.

But back to the original point, if order flow is up and price is retracing back down, should you just buy that pullback because it goes along with your trade plan? What if there's no structure in the area? What if the r:r sucks? What if the retracement is strong and it shouldn't be? All swings are not created equal so swing qualification has its place imo.

So I agree with what Mack said. Starting my day each morning with the goal of 'looking for 20pts' allows me to be patient, not take unnecessary risks (most of the time haha), and not over trade ultimately giving profits back (although I do this sometimes). I am also guilty of cutting trades short when at or over quota and then leaving money on the table when price keeps running in my direction, so I do use it as a form of profit taking sometimes but I'm ok with this.

Great discussion over these past couple of pages.
  • #21,884
  • Nov 27, 2016 1:31pm Nov 27, 2016 1:31pm
Quoting crixus
Guys you might find this video interesting: FuturesTrader71 - Your Trading Mindset - Pitfalls & Fixes, part 2 of a multipart series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak5hrg_WbYM&t=4s) - What does Mindset mean? - The hopeful but helpless trader - Dissociative Identity Disorder – Who is really trading? - The most common psychological issues in trading - What does the right mindset feel like? - Things you can do to change your mindset - Accepting mistakes but not repeating them - Make everything your own - Follow a routine - Gratitude, humbleness...
This was a great video. thanks for posting
  • #21,885
  • Nov 27, 2016 1:34pm Nov 27, 2016 1:34pm
Quoting Mack2013
{quote} This was a great video. thanks for posting
I agree, thank you Crixus, very useful and helpful video. I also checked out the other 3 videos in that series and they are really good.
  • #21,886
  • Nov 27, 2016 3:59pm Nov 27, 2016 3:59pm
Quoting Mack2013
{quote} I think you missed the point. Sure you can look at a daily quota as a play on P&L but that's you. I like to think that it builds confidence. Success / winning breeds confidence. The more confident you are in your strategy the more likely you will to follow your rules and have faith in your system. But if your losing either or won't help you. I believe jmezz uses the quota not for profit taking anyway but rather to eliminate over trading and not to take unnecessary risk. Anyway, the point I was making was that you got to be open to ideas...
hey mack, fair enough, good points, guess i'll just have to agree to disagree, for me any daily points targets, not matter how they are used are just a subtle way of trading p/l, remember points = p/l , so if you get a good trade and hit your target, do you quit even tho there's another great set up, to stop you overtrading. are you thinking about the chart or your points? or what if you have 3 losers in a row, would you hesitate on taking a fourth, or let the fourth trade run more than you should to try to get back to the daily target. any time points on your mind, so is p/l even though it might not seem so, however, having said that if you feel having a daily target gives you focus and builds confidence and makes you a better trader, then this can only be a good thing.

regarding the post for mr. pip, i can see why that looks like a fear issue, but i should have explained the post better.
right now i feel as though my trading is about 60% mechanical / 40% discretionary. whenever i go through a bad period i try tighten up the rules and follow a strict line of logic so i can get to 95% mechanical / 5% discretionary, which is where i want to be, but when i do this i never end up taking a trade, because i cant find opportunties based purely on rules/logic, not because of fear of taking a trade. i also measure performance over long periods, for example, i've had 4 small winning months and 2 large losing months, which leaves me with a handful of pips over the last 6 months. i'll take 100's of trades over this period, so one trade doesn't barely register at all either way.
Finally, i use the money management i mentioned in the earlier post, (20% capital, 5:1 leverage), so i reckon you lose more down the back of the sofa every year, than i just lost on my horrendous 10 trade losing streak.

p.s. after mr. pips video, i squeezed in one trade on friday and got +34pips on e/u which wiped out nearly a third of those losses in one trade. and no, i didn't hestitate.
  • #21,887
  • Nov 27, 2016 4:28pm Nov 27, 2016 4:28pm
Quoting Wolves77
{quote} hey mack, fair enough, good points, guess i'll just have to agree to disagree, for me any daily points targets, not matter how they are used are just a subtle way of trading p/l, remember points = p/l , so if you get a good trade and hit your target, do you quit even tho there's another great set up, to stop you overtrading. are you thinking about the chart or your points? or what if you have 3 losers in a row, would you hesitate on taking a fourth, or let the fourth trade run more than you should to try to get back to the daily target....
Good to hear that you got some pips back.

Most of the time, I ramble on about stuff that I experienced which may totally be different from another traders experience. Each trader has a different journey. So even tho we don't see eye to eye doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong.

By the way, I'm totally jealous of jmezz daily win rate. I do okay but I still go through (imo) unreasonable long slumps.

Great discussion. Good luck this week
  • #21,888
  • Edited 3:34am Nov 28, 2016 12:56am | Edited 3:34am
GBPUSD

I liked the order flow overnight. Bullish bar bouncing off structure and 61.8 fib and around the 1.25 BRN.

Edit: Faffed around 1.25 and then broke down through support

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  • #21,889
  • Nov 28, 2016 5:42am Nov 28, 2016 5:42am
Here is a trade on took this morning on the fdax that im happy with but im not happy about closing the trade early.

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1. This is where i loaded the charts and drew in those 3 structure boxes, did i draw these in correctly?
2. Price got to the first box but i wasnt happy with the rotation and also wanted to see a deeper retrace so i waited
3. Price has very little reaction to this level so i waited more
4. I took the trade here as there was the strongest structure (more to the left that you cant see on this chart and got an ok rotation just below the 61.8 fib.
5 I closed the trade out here for 70 points (the fdax moves up his half point increments) Because it was at a 1:2 rr ratio and a brn, also because the 1 to 1 completetion seems so far that i was unlikely to reach it anytime soon and i dont like to stay in trades for hours and hours. This is my 2nd day back with this since friday and i was up 3% on my account and wanted to start the week of on a nice high but i feel this was completely the wrong way of thinking and i should of just lowerd my SL and let it hit that or continue running down to perhaps the 1:1 completetion
  • #21,890
  • Nov 28, 2016 5:57am Nov 28, 2016 5:57am
Quoting morph
GBPUSD I liked the order flow overnight. Bullish bar bouncing off structure and 61.8 fib and around the 1.25 BRN. Edit: Faffed around 1.25 and then broke down through support {image}
Seems like a pretty great looking trade despite the loss, where did you put your SL, below structure or below the HL?
  • #21,891
  • Nov 28, 2016 6:47am Nov 28, 2016 6:47am
Quoting rashidyousuf
{quote} Mastermind i must say u have got real beauty setup amazing trade all of them .....love it bro God blessed thanks and regards Rashid Yousuf
Many thanks.

I will continue to list trades in advance of the entry as much as possible or very close to the entry times.

The more real the trade the better all of us tend to learn.

Lets be patient and look for other potentially profitable trades.

I'll be looking for one in NY today.

Masterrmind..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #21,892
  • Nov 28, 2016 7:00am Nov 28, 2016 7:00am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Many thanks. I will continue to list trades in advance of the entry as much as possible or very close to the entry times. The more real the trade the better all of us tend to learn. Lets be patient and look for other potentially profitable trades. I'll be looking for one in NY today. Masterrmind..............
GBPJPY [M5 Chart]

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Possible short but not yet.

Observation time.

Note 1: Dangerous to trade this pair due to it being so volatile so trader beware!
Note 2: Also looking at other pairs for a potential entry.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #21,893
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:05am Nov 28, 2016 8:05am
YM

Keeping open mind in case we see follow-through to the downside.

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  • #21,894
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:20am Nov 28, 2016 8:20am
Quoting Hazza88
Here is a trade on took this morning on the fdax that im happy with but im not happy about closing the trade early. {image} 1. This is where i loaded the charts and drew in those 3 structure boxes, did i draw these in correctly? 2. Price got to the first box but i wasnt happy with the rotation and also wanted to see a deeper retrace so i waited 3. Price has very little reaction to this level so i waited more 4. I took the trade here as there was the strongest structure (more to the left that you cant see on this chart and got an ok rotation just...
Nice, I took the same one!

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It seems like you took the whole swing? Did you close and re-enter? What exactly are you unhappy about?
  • #21,895
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:44am Nov 28, 2016 8:44am
Hello Traders,

I'm having PC issues My skype is not working, My NinjaTrader 8 Has decided to disappear from my PC but I have the temp files which I don't understand so I'm not sure what the hell is going on. I will probably not trade today and get shit working again sorry.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #21,896
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:57am Nov 28, 2016 8:57am
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Hi guy's can anyone tell me how to get the screenshot to show on this screen?
  • #21,897
  • Nov 28, 2016 8:57am Nov 28, 2016 8:57am
See it now!!!
  • #21,898
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:15am Nov 28, 2016 9:15am
Quoting Troonman
See it now!!!
Yes

Quoting Mr. Pip
Hello Traders, I'm having PC issues My skype is not working, My NinjaTrader 8 Has decided to disappear from my PC but I have the temp files which I don't understand so I'm not sure what the hell is going on. I will probably not trade today and get shit working again sorry.
Sorry to hear that. Hope you get everything back to normal easily. Haven't missed much ... shitty price action for the moment.
  • #21,899
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:28am Nov 28, 2016 9:28am
Quoting stavrogijn
{quote} Nice, I took the same one! {image} It seems like you took the whole swing? Did you close and re-enter? What exactly are you unhappy about?
I accidently closed the trade at one point so i reopened another position pretty much straight away. Yes i got out the trade at almost the best moment, but this was mostly chance as it was more a "feeling" to exit the trade moreso then anything else. Good job on your trade too
  • #21,900
  • Nov 28, 2016 9:40am Nov 28, 2016 9:40am
Damian or anyone, I would appreciate any comments please good or bad and any mistakes you think I've made!

I'm done for the day with +30 pips. I don't want to turn good day into a bad one!!
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