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Help!!! US Traders, We Must Stand Up and Fight

  • #41
  • Oct 16, 2016 7:22pm Oct 16, 2016 7:22pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I only use 3 brokers, so I actually trade without a copier. I still distribute risk as if I have 3 open trades, one will be at each broker. However, I believe what you suggest may be a better option. Can you recommend any trade copier service?
I will research and get back to you....had links in favorites but cleaned out list some time ago..... Greentrader Tax (greencompany.com) I hear is a good professional tax service for traders here and overseas....maybe giving them a call or quick chat would give helpful information.

I think this is a good thread....lot of information already being brought forth.....working together only way to have a chance.

db
  • #42
  • Oct 16, 2016 8:31pm Oct 16, 2016 8:31pm
Information for anyone not familiar with Futures:

A funny thing about Forex Futures is the price is a little bit different from Spot (Right now I'm looking at the Pound - Spot is 1.2170 and Futures is 1.2183). The support/resistance and chart patterns, etc. are slightly different and the price movement tends to follow the Spot price - meaning a move which makes sense in Spot might not make sense in Futures.

Also, Forex Futures can be gappy and the bid/ask can be wider because of lower volume. The bulk of the money in Forex is in the Spot market.

Also, in the US there are no cross rates with Futures (e.g. EUR/JPY), only /USD pairs, so you'd have to do a synthetic cross (long EUR/USD and long USD/JPY simultaneously).

But on the plus side you can trade Futures in an IRA and Futures commissions are lower.

To answer someone's question, Interactive Brokers still offers Spot Forex, but with no leverage if your account is under $10 million (US), and their minimum position sizes are relatively large - something like 30,000 currency units, meaning you'd have to have a minimum of $30,000 in your account to trade only $3/pip EUR/USD.

Also, yes maxwell-eqtn, The Fool is not a fool, you can easily exit Options any time, unless you're foolish-enough to buy something with a $0.50 spread. And it's not too hard to get a margin account which allows you to short sell stock.
  • #43
  • Oct 16, 2016 8:55pm Oct 16, 2016 8:55pm
Not sure if this idea would work, but I believe there is a way without becoming an ex-pat.
I believe the non-US brokers do not require citizenship of a foreign country, only residence. So rent an apartment somewhere in a foreign country, done. You will still be responsible for US income tax, but can register for the offshore broker with your non-US address.
is this correct?
  • #44
  • Oct 16, 2016 9:19pm Oct 16, 2016 9:19pm
Quoting Rob Mondave
Information for anyone not familiar with Futures: A funny thing about Forex Futures is the price is a little bit different from Spot (Right now I'm looking at the Pound - Spot is 1.2170 and Futures is 1.2183). The support/resistance and chart patterns, etc. are slightly different and the price movement tends to follow the Spot price - meaning a move which makes sense in Spot might not make sense in Futures. Also, Forex Futures can be gappy and the bid/ask can be wider because of lower volume. The bulk of the money in Forex is in the Spot market....
$30,000 to trade $3/pip. Exactly my point, I can do that with $60 in my account offshore. Of course, that only allows a 20 pip stop. Bottom line is if I use a typical 50 pip stop, I need $150. Why should I need to put up $30,000 to risk $150. It just doesn't make sense, and to top it all, the CFTC wants us to deposit all of that extra money for margin and yet they will not allow the brokers to offer any protection of the funds. They have the naive among us actually believing the leverage requirements are for OUR PROTECTION. What a joke, it's actually embarrassing they take us to have no intelligence at all.
  • #45
  • Oct 16, 2016 10:28pm Oct 16, 2016 10:28pm
Quoting mrtommifunn
Don't trade as an individual but trade as a limited company. Now as legitimate entity your company can trade from any country and this does not effect your personal circumstances in tax. The company now pays its taxes and can off set its loses. Again this has no bearing to you a an individual except you own the shares. If you collect dividends (profit) from the company (you have removed from the trading fund) then you pay tax on that. Play the system with the rules you are given; don't fight the system
THIS IS EXACTLY WRONG. Beware of non-US residents who presume to advise you of how US business taxation works.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #46
  • Oct 16, 2016 10:39pm Oct 16, 2016 10:39pm
Quoting Rob Mondave
But on the plus side you can trade Futures in an IRA and Futures commissions are lower.
You might be able to trade futures in your IRA accounts, but I can't in mine.

https://sixfigureinvesting.com/2012/...ing-in-an-ira/
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #47
  • Oct 16, 2016 11:14pm Oct 16, 2016 11:14pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote}You might be able to trade futures in your IRA accounts, but I can't in mine. https://sixfigureinvesting.com/2012/...ing-in-an-ira/
Yeah, I'm with Think or Swim. Their only IRA restriction (aside from short-selling and naked puts and calls) is no Options on Futures. Otherwise, all Futures, Equities and Equity Options are available. They even allow Credit Spreads, which I think most other brokers don't.
  • #48
  • Oct 17, 2016 1:49am Oct 17, 2016 1:49am
Quoting Rob Mondave
They even allow Credit Spreads, which I think most other brokers don't.
Everybody that allows options trading allows credit spreads. This thread is a classic example of the worst of FF: the blind leading the blind.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #49
  • Oct 17, 2016 4:57am Oct 17, 2016 4:57am
Quoting The Fool
{quote}Everybody that allows options trading allows credit spreads. This thread is a classic example of the worst of FF: the blind leading the blind.
Well once again it is a thread that has become completely off topic. I was not looking for options other than spot forex. If I wanted to trade futures, options or equities I would do so. I am looking for a solution for all of us to be able to trade spot forex with the same freedom and protection as the rest of the free world. I currently do so by trading offshore. My concerns are my account balances are becoming too large to feel comfortable. Moving to a US broker does not alleviate that concern. So once again, the purpose is either to get things changed in the US or have someone with real experience explain how and where to set up in another country where all the good brokers of the world WILL ACCEPT US CLIENTS.
  • #50
  • Oct 17, 2016 6:26am Oct 17, 2016 6:26am
I did a quick search this morning for "mt4 trade copier software" and several links came up....www.mt4copier.com...www.forexcopier.com....etc..

Mt4copier allows trades from one platform and account to be duplicated across client accounts...not just your main account.

hope this helps

cheers
db
  • #51
  • Oct 17, 2016 7:56am Oct 17, 2016 7:56am
Quoting The Fool
{quote}Everybody that allows options trading allows credit spreads. This thread is a classic example of the worst of FF: the blind leading the blind.
Hey! Don't be a jerk! You and I are talking about IRAs, and most brokers don't allow Credit Spreads in IRAs. Talk about the worst of Forex Factory...
  • #52
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:20am Oct 17, 2016 8:20am
Quoting Rob Mondave
and most brokers don't allow Credit Spreads in IRAs. ...
WRONG! Anybody who represents they have the appropriate level of experience will be able to trade credit spreads in an IRA account.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #53
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:27am Oct 17, 2016 8:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
Well once again it is a thread that has become completely off topic. I was not looking for options other than spot forex. If I wanted to trade futures, options or equities I would do so. I am looking for a solution for all of us to be able to trade spot forex with the same freedom and protection as the rest of the free world..
" 4. Precious metals and stock indices. Why can't I trade gold or silver, the DAX or the DOW? Everyone else in the world can."

Wasn't that you whining about not being able to trade US stock indices and pm's?? How dumb can you be? And what rock have you been living under where you could not see the handwriting on the wall about spot forex? The solution you're looking for is to trade in a real market - the US exchanges. It won't be too long before that will be the only option you have.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #54
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:31am Oct 17, 2016 8:31am
Quoting The Fool
{quote}WRONG! Anybody who represents they have the appropriate level of experience will be able to trade credit spreads in an IRA account.
This has been my experience as well
  • #55
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:33am Oct 17, 2016 8:33am
Anyways, not sure what we are going to fight as US traders?

SEC isn't here to protect retail trading, much less listen to their complaints
  • #56
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:37am Oct 17, 2016 8:37am
Quoting The Fool
{quote}WRONG! Anybody who represents they have the appropriate level of experience will be able to trade credit spreads in an IRA account.
Wrong. I called around specifically for that and TD Ameritrade/Think or Swim was the only one I could find - and in fact, the TD Ameritrade side of the company does not allow it, but the Think or Swim side does. I'm sure there are, indeed, other brokers but it's not universal. I do remember calling Schwab and Fidelity, and don't remember the others. TradeStation might allow it, but if I remember correctly Interactive Brokers doesn't. The reason is that Credit Spreads (as you know) can lead to substantial draw-downs before expiration and assignment, and in theory one can lose more than his cash amount before assignment. Gee whiz, relax.
  • #57
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:48am Oct 17, 2016 8:48am
Quoting Rob Mondave
{quote} Wrong. I called around specifically for that and TD Ameritrade/Think or Swim was the only one I could find - and in fact, the TD Ameritrade side of the company does not allow it, but the Think or Swim side does. I'm sure there are, indeed, other brokers but it's not universal. I do remember calling Schwab and Fidelity, and don't remember the others. TradeStation might allow it, but if I remember correctly Interactive Brokers doesn't. The reason is that Credit Spreads (as you know) can lead to substantial draw-downs before expiration and...
There is not a Think or Swim "side of the company" - TDA bought out ThinkorSwim and there is not separate management. ThinkorSwim is just a trading platform owned by TDA. I place credit spread orders in IRA accounts at two other major US discount brokers. The fact that you need to "call around" means you aren't an options trader. Stick to what you know, whatever that is.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #58
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:53am Oct 17, 2016 8:53am
Quoting The Fool
{quote}There is not a Think or Swim "side of the company" - TDA bought out ThinkorSwim and there is not separate management. ThinkorSwim is just a trading platform owned by TDA. I place credit spread orders in IRA accounts at two other major US discount brokers. The fact that you need to "call around" means you aren't an options trader. Stick to what you know, whatever that is.
What's wrong with you, man? Are you really 55 years old? Bye.
  • #59
  • Oct 17, 2016 8:57am Oct 17, 2016 8:57am
Only a few broker providing trading opportunities for US Traders! That's pathetic! Honestly, I dont know why is that? Is it like US government dont permit Forex trading? Or Broker have no right to work in US? Or is it the brokers themselves decided not to do business in USa?
  • #60
  • Oct 17, 2016 9:54am Oct 17, 2016 9:54am
Quoting pipmaster77
Hi all, This thread is dedicated to finding a solution to enable US citizens to enjoy the same trading freedom as the rest of the civilized world. I am not sure how to accomplish this, so I am hoping by everyone sharing ideas we may be able to accomplish something. I have been trading offshore for several years, but this is becoming more and more difficult as well as they are now shutting down payment processors and several of the top choices have pulled out of the US recently. Our situation has become beyond ridiculous. I am not really even speaking...
forex market is not a regulated market anywhere in the world. If it was many of the orders in the classic GBP fall 2 weeks back would have been cancelled. I see many of the millionaire traders in US because of forex. so whom do they trade with?? if US is blocking so many companies. I think in the US requirement is of min 5k dollars plus account with a good broker
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