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Help!!! US Traders, We Must Stand Up and Fight

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 13, 2016 3:26pm Oct 13, 2016 3:26pm
Hi all,

This thread is dedicated to finding a solution to enable US citizens to enjoy the same trading freedom as the rest of the civilized world. I am not sure how to accomplish this, so I am hoping by everyone sharing ideas we may be able to accomplish something.

I have been trading offshore for several years, but this is becoming more and more difficult as well as they are now shutting down payment processors and several of the top choices have pulled out of the US recently.

Our situation has become beyond ridiculous. I am not really even speaking of the lower leverage, no hedging or the FIFO rule. What I am speaking of is:

1. No true ECN/DMA broker available. This is absolutely ridiculous. The NFA/CFTC are supposed to be the toughest regulators in the world, yet they allow the 3 remaining market maker brokers to get away with basically whatever they wish. Freezing platforms, rejected orders, random price spikes, etc. Last week when GBP crashed, my "unregulated" ECN broker didn't miss a beat while OANDA froze their platforms. This was done so anyone short couldn't book their profits while everyone long got crushed. How can we have such tough regulations and they do not see the need to eliminate dealing desks and price manipulation. We are trading with a conflict of interest where the other party controls the software.

2. Protect our funds. UK does, Australia does. Here in the US, the regulations actually prohibit it. Even if the brokers wanted to segregate our funds, they are not allowed to. How does this protect the trader?

3. Allow us to trade with these regulated brokers who protect our funds. If they are so concerned about protecting us, why do they not realize how much better off we would be trading with a well regulated broker in the UK or Australia where our funds are safe than the options presented here in the US.

4. Precious metals and stock indices. Why can't I trade gold or silver, the DAX or the DOW? Everyone else in the world can.

5. Going back to leverage, hedging and FIFO. While these can be worked around. 200:1, even 100:1 would suffice, FIFO is just plain stupid and hedging, while I only do it in rare situations, it does allow you to recover positions when used properly.

The problem is we are just sitting back and accepting it. I mean when your really look at the horror stories behind the 3 remaining options here in the US, you have to be completely oblivious or completely addicted to be trading with them.

So what can we do, open floor, everyone please chime in, even non US residents, even though it doesn't affect you, if you have some great suggestions, let us know!!

Looking forward to hearing from everyone.
  • #2
  • Edited 4:37pm Oct 13, 2016 4:17pm | Edited 4:37pm
Regulations are destroying the free market and the economies all over the world. Financial markets and FX is just the tip of the iceberg.
In Europe the situation in many aspects is much worse than US. Yes, we still have FX and access to all financial markets, but this may change in the future!

Look what is happening:
https://www.leaprate.com/2016/08/bel...tions-trading/
http://www.financemagnates.com/forex...n-cfd-trading/

There is a trend right now.......

I don't want to turn this topic into politics, but....
Let me tell you something,
The problem is not just about Forex.

This is what happens when you give power to the socialists(communists)! The USA is no longer free county (the free market is almost dead) and most of the developed world is heading toward communism 2.0 And this is only the beginning. How do I know? I can see the early signs. The UN push for globalization, confrontation between powers, the new cold war......the propaganda in the media......it is all happening now.
I know these things because I was born in communist country (now claimed for capitalist) and I know the communist tricks. My grandparents and the older generations have seen it all.

First they create the "nanny" state as a warm up. Eventually as the communists gain more power and support from the poor masses, they will remove all of your rights, confiscate your guns, land, and your capital investments, and will nationalize everything. Even the citizens and their property will become property of the state.

In short - we are all screwed! You don't believe me? Just wait for it..... it is happening.
  • #3
  • Oct 13, 2016 4:34pm Oct 13, 2016 4:34pm
Yes, the world is a mess and getting worse. I agree. This thread was not created to solve the world, I'm just looking for US traders to stand up and demand our rights to trade as the rest of the world does. How do we do it?
  • #4
  • Edited 6:32pm Oct 13, 2016 5:19pm | Edited 6:32pm
The people that make these rules, do so for their own benefit. You and I are nothing more than a nuisance to them. The "stand up and fight" argument, will accomplish nothing. Drawing up and presenting a "petition" (not yet suggested in this thread, but it probably will be), will accomplish nothing. FATCA (and other such laws) is not about the gvt wanting to catch tax evaders.... it's about capital controls. The US is financially broke and those in gvt know it. FATCA is a hunt for money. If you want something in gvt to change, you have to kick them in the pocketbook. More and more US citizens will have to expatriate and renounce their US citizenship, thereby reducing the population who pay into the system, before the gvt will even consider making a change. And even then, the gvt will fight to the last breath (making the lives of those citizens who remain in the US absolutely miserable) before making the necessary changes.

It's all about the money.
  • #5
  • Oct 13, 2016 5:47pm Oct 13, 2016 5:47pm
Quoting sknight1
The people that make these rules, do so for their own benefit. You and I are nothing more than a nuisance to them. The "stand up and fight" argument, will accomplish nothing. Drawing up and presenting a "petition" (not yet suggested in this thread, but it probably will be), will accomplish nothing. FATCA (and other such laws) is not about the gvt wanting to catch tax evaders.... it's about capital controls. The US is financially broke and those in gvt know it. FATCA is a hunt for money. If you want something in gvt to change, you have to kick them...
This is what I am talking about, sit back and let them have their way. Not acceptable. C'mon people, chime in, someone has to have some good suggestions. Has anyone set up a foreign entity, if so, how did you do it? where? cost? what brokers will accept you?
  • #6
  • Edited 6:16pm Oct 13, 2016 5:53pm | Edited 6:16pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} This is what I am talking about, sit back and let them have their way. Not acceptable. C'mon people, chime in, someone has to have some good suggestions. Has anyone set up a foreign entity, if so, how did you do it? where? cost? what brokers will accept you?
You can get suggestions in a forum like this. My suggestion was to expatriate. But for answers to your other questions... foreign entity, how, where, cost, etc... you're going to want to talk about that with an attorney, not with people on the internet.
  • #7
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:01pm Oct 13, 2016 6:01pm
Quoting sknight1
{quote} You can get suggestions in a forum like this. My suggestion was to expatriate. But for answers to your other questions... foreign entity, how, where, cost, etc... you're going to want to talk about that with an attorney, not with people on the internet.
Certainly someone has real experience doing it. There is no way that the big traders from the US are trading with FXCM, Oanda or Forex.com.
  • #8
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:07pm Oct 13, 2016 6:07pm
I was happily trading gold on margin in the cash market through a US FX dealer--until the Dodd-Frank monstrosity went into effect. It is all about control of capital at the expense and hazard of private traders and other victims.

I haven't heard of any leading political candidates advocating reestablishing personal freedoms here in the excited states.

sknight1 and alphaomega are right, as much as I hate being negative about improvement. There won't be any change for the better here. What's better is leaving, although Thomas Paine was right, so right, when he wrote that freedom has been a fugitive chased around the world.
  • #9
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:09pm Oct 13, 2016 6:09pm
Get the members of Freemason involved. They run the show.
  • #10
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:14pm Oct 13, 2016 6:14pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Certainly someone has real experience doing it. There is no way that the big traders from the US are trading with FXCM, Oanda or Forex.com.
The peons trade through the retail brokers. Bigger traders trade directly through the banks. The biggest traders ARE the banks and their owners.
  • #11
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:16pm Oct 13, 2016 6:16pm
New guy here, have yet to start trading with any real money. I am a US citizen and from reading the points made on this thread I can see that it is extremely hard to trade with US brokers.

This might be a stupid question but why don't you just open an account with an offshore broker? Or is this against the law or something?
  • #12
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:18pm Oct 13, 2016 6:18pm
Quoting timingchain
{quote} The peons trade through the retail brokers. Bigger traders trade directly through the banks. The biggest traders ARE the banks and their owners.

+1
  • #13
  • Oct 13, 2016 6:32pm Oct 13, 2016 6:32pm
Quoting timingchain
{quote} The peons trade through the retail brokers. Bigger traders trade directly through the banks. The biggest traders ARE the banks and their owners.
OK, so I see everyone wants to have the pessimistic attitude. How about the people between the peons and the banks. For example, I'm getting to the point where my trade size will be around 5 lots. I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with my account size offshore, but I refuse to let the US brokers just bleed my account with their deceptive tactics. I'd feel completely confident with Dukascopy (Swiss), LMAX, Pepperstone or IC Markets. All much better options than any US offering with ECN/DMA access, segregated accounts. What gives the US the right to restrict me from these brokers? There is no way people trading 5-10 lot trade sizes are trading with these thieves in the US.
  • #14
  • Oct 13, 2016 7:54pm Oct 13, 2016 7:54pm
From the OANDA thread:
Quoting Noorx
{quote} Of course OANDA will freeze the GBP pairs during a 2k pip drop, or else you'll blame their asses for loosing all your account trading superb dangerous pairs.
Trader's assume that risk when they open account. Trader's also assume that they will be able to trade WHEN THE MKT IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS. The mkt was open for business and Oanda wasn't allowing a trader to take advantage of the lower prices. Yet, They were HAPPY TO TAKE TRADERS MONEY AT THE BOTTOM via Stops.
Bad business practices Oanda!

This is a much better option for us CFTC, then a regulated DMA broker from the UK or Australia that you prohibit us from using.
To boot, with all this regulation, there was absolutely nothing done about this. Just take it and deal with it. That's the way it is, you have no choice. That's the attitude of the broker.
  • #15
  • Oct 13, 2016 7:54pm Oct 13, 2016 7:54pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Hi all, This thread is dedicated to finding a solution to enable US citizens to enjoy the same trading freedom as the rest of the civilized world. I am not sure how to accomplish this, so I am hoping by everyone sharing ideas we may be able to accomplish something. I have been trading offshore for several years, but this is becoming more and more difficult as well as they are now shutting down payment processors and several of the top choices have pulled out of the US recently. Our situation has become beyond ridiculous. I am not really even speaking...
If you're trading full lots, switch to futures:
1-Can trade all major currencies (6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6M, 6N, 6S)
2-Can trade nearly any commodity. (metals, energy, grains, livestock, etc....)
3-Can trade bonds, equity futures (DAX, dow, ES, etc....)
4-No FIFO rules
5-Lower transaction costs
6-Segregated accounts
7-You're not trading against the broker
8-Low intraday margins (good for scalping)

***With all the crazy rules they have with forex in the US and very few restrictive rules for futures trading, it's pretty clear which lobbyists have the most money.
  • #16
  • Oct 13, 2016 8:01pm Oct 13, 2016 8:01pm
Quoting srt
{quote} If you're trading full lots, switch to futures: 1-Can trade all major currencies (6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6M, 6N, 6S) 2-Can trade nearly any commodity. (metals, energy, grains, livestock, etc....) 3-Can trade bonds, equity futures (DAX, dow, ES, etc....) 4-No FIFO rules 5-Lower transaction costs 6-Segregated accounts 7-You're not trading against the broker 8-Low intraday margins (good for scalping) ***With all the crazy rules they have with forex in the US and very few restrictive rules for futures trading, it's pretty clear which lobbyists...
I trade a lot of crosses where there is little to no volume in futures. I also like the flexibility of moving in and out of positions as I please as well as closing partials moving stops to break even, trailing stops, etc. If futures is so great, why did everyone switch to spot and now they try to bring everyone back through over regulation?
  • #17
  • Oct 13, 2016 9:43pm Oct 13, 2016 9:43pm
i read somewhere that interactive brokers was going to stop forex trading. Anybody know why? this is the broker where the big US traders would trade forex i believe
  • #18
  • Oct 13, 2016 9:51pm Oct 13, 2016 9:51pm
Quoting hilmy83
i read somewhere that interactive brokers was going to stop forex trading. Anybody know why? this is the broker where the big US traders would trade forex i believe
IB has been done with forex for a couple of months already.
  • #19
  • Oct 13, 2016 10:03pm Oct 13, 2016 10:03pm
i can say one thing, profitable US traders are some of the best traders around

considering that we only have 1:50 leverage, FIFO rules, and we have very limited broker choices. Everytime i see a trader with hedge trades on same pair, i'm like fuck this guy and his trades...

i'm jealous that everybody can trade with low cost and some have fund protection, fuck these yankee lawmakers, i need to migrate
  • #20
  • Oct 13, 2016 10:21pm Oct 13, 2016 10:21pm
I could be wrong but I think that you can open an offshore company in a country where Forex is permitted and trade with that company name.

Or... Marry a foreign person and use their foreign nationality and country of birth information ( assuming he/she can provide an ID, address etc of said country) to trade.

Edit ..of course that does not fix the main issue with the U.S government creating laws-- to protect "its citizens" (or money)

The irony is that the government has no problem with you blowing your money on Lottery tickets or at Casinos, but high leveraged Forex trading is evil.
Dragon Rider
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