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The Really Useless Thread

  • #143,641
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:38am Sep 29, 2016 11:38am
Quoting Pharm0r
How many a man has thrown up his hands at a time when a little more effort, a little more patience would have achieved success. Elbert Hubbard The keys to patience are acceptance and faith. Accept things as they are, and look realistically at the world around you. Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen. Ralph Marston Genius is patience. Isaac Newton
But isn't that the point with SL hunt and shakeouts to get traders to throw their positions
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #143,642
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:38am Sep 29, 2016 11:38am
Would love to know who the multitalented people are riding the pig .... My 2 cents to that mastermind... Was wrong in the last post ....
Re-Incarnated
  • #143,643
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:44am Sep 29, 2016 11:44am
What purpose does a stop loss serve other than to make you lose money?
  • #143,644
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:54am Sep 29, 2016 11:54am
Quoting Pharm0r
What purpose does a stop loss serve other than to make you lose money?
It is actually the one thing we can control almost 100% in trading and that is our losses. But to get taken out on SL when you are right is truly a waste.

Personally I trade with mental very wide SL and will not be taken out on a shakeout. I have also for years been using the leverage Sisse was recommending the other day that actually is unleveraged. 1 USD per pip per 10.000 in equity.
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #143,645
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:56am Sep 29, 2016 11:56am
Quoting Pharm0r
What purpose does a stop loss serve other than to make you lose money?
saves the capital, which is need for tomorrow to trade!
  • #143,646
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:58am Sep 29, 2016 11:58am
Choppy day so far but more importantly DAX losing foot on the European close triggering imminent break down alerts making the 3er key market in a week sitting on the edge of a major break.

Moreover a wave of rumours and noise from the DB front (1/2 lies and a few other only 'interested' in stirring the pot) but at the end there is some fire inside one way or the other.... watch-out for Lehman style sessions if rumours become reality....

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #143,647
  • Sep 29, 2016 11:58am Sep 29, 2016 11:58am
Quoting Earleone
{quote} It is actually the one thing we can control almost 100% in trading and that is our losses. But to get taken out on SL when you are right is truly a waste. Personally I trade with mental very wide SL and will not be taken out on a shakeout. I have also for years been using the leverage Sisse was recommending the other day that actually is unleveraged. 1 USD per pip per 10.000 in equity.
So you mention mental stop loss- which many will say is a huge NO. Why do you think that is?

I think- generally, the vast majority of traders in this forum doesn't understand proper stop loss whether mental or physical. Saying "risking 2% per captial" gives the illusion that a hard stop loss at 2% is the correct way to use stop loss. That isn't true.

If you are correct in direction, what is the point of a stop loss?
  • #143,648
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:02pm Sep 29, 2016 12:02pm
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} So you mention mental stop loss- which many will say is a huge NO. Why do you think that is?

I know why it is. Been burnt on that many times. Easy to be undisciplined and let it go a little bit further.

The advantage is that you are not taken out on spread widening , and also not on spikes. I trade a lot of exotic instruments and there spread widening is a huge problem if you use hard SL.

If you are wrong you must be disciplined to accept it and then take your loss somehow too even if limit is not reached.
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #143,649
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:03pm Sep 29, 2016 12:03pm
...Watch-out for Euro ...noise levels from DB are reaching major decibels from all fronts and very quick....

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #143,650
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:03pm Sep 29, 2016 12:03pm
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} Saying "risking 2% per captial" gives the illusion that a hard stop loss at 2% is the correct way to use stop loss. That isn't true. If you are correct in direction, what is the point of a stop loss?
This is where I GET CONFUSED....So would you just trail it a certain % until target is hit?
  • #143,651
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:04pm Sep 29, 2016 12:04pm
Quoting Earleone
{quote} Yupp, will wait and see how it looks after close. I dont like long high activity candles on 4H penetrating MA 50 100 and 200 and resistance level for my shorts but lets see how it close. They took out a lot of SL with that one. Thats for sure.
Now when I am reading this this previous H4 turned into rejection candle, so later it could be high activity at highs. Sure not so bad. BARF again.
PVSRA
  • #143,652
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:06pm Sep 29, 2016 12:06pm
Quoting IMARICH1
{quote} This is where I GET CONFUSED....So would you just trail it a certain % until target is hit?
That's why I wanted you to put it on a chart for me

Many of you are getting sucked into techinicals, when you already KNOW the fundamental direction.
  • #143,653
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:06pm Sep 29, 2016 12:06pm
Guys .... I would suggest leave this very interesting conversation your are having for a bit and pay attention to what is going on in the market ...you may be missing something big on the background ....

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #143,654
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:07pm Sep 29, 2016 12:07pm
Quoting Fisher755
{quote} Now when I am reading this this previous H4 turned into rejection candle, so later it could be high activity at highs. Sure not so bad. BARF again.
Looks nice, I reloaded Enjoy the ride
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #143,655
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:14pm Sep 29, 2016 12:14pm
Quoting Pharm0r
What purpose does a stop loss serve other than to make you lose money?

Sill, we should get used to close red trades. It is a part of business too.
Trades that are well planed will always give good profits on the long run.

Quoting Earleone
{quote} Looks nice, I reloaded Enjoy the ride
I'm not in yet, was waiting closer to 1.3XX and missed the train. But have nothing against a scalp here and there in the right direction when momentum picks up.

Quoting sisse
Guys .... I would suggest leave this very interesting conversation your are having for a bit and pay attention to what is going on in the market ...you may be missing something big on the background .... sisse
Don't worry, we are multi-tasking.
PVSRA
  • #143,656
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:34pm Sep 29, 2016 12:34pm
Ok sisse! But, need to atleast post a chart for Pharm0r and we can tear it up later...

sisse,

Please post what we should be watching to understand market conditions and what is happening. I am watching DAX, 10 yr T-Bonds and news. You watch different things to understand the MARKET and its noise for me since I never really know what day to watch what..Oil? Gold? ES ect......
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  • #143,657
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:36pm Sep 29, 2016 12:36pm
Quoting workingforex
{quote} saves the capital, which is need for tomorrow to trade!
Bull shit. It takes your capital away from you, it doesn't save anything. If you want to save- stay out of the market (until you know where it's going). If you want to save capital- risk less.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying stop losses are useless nor am I saying they shouldn't be used. I think the context in which most are using them is incorrect

I'll continue this evening if everyone doesn't mind. sisse is correct- if a bank is about to collapse we should be watching the news
  • #143,658
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:39pm Sep 29, 2016 12:39pm
Quoting sisse
Guys .... I would suggest leave this very interesting conversation your are having for a bit and pay attention to what is going on in the market ...you may be missing something big on the background .... sisse
Wouldn't it be nice [not for the economy for sure ] that DB is the straw that broke the camel's back thus a time shortcut for my mid term trades !
Get Rich or Die Tryin
  • #143,659
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:46pm Sep 29, 2016 12:46pm
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} Bull shit. It takes your capital away from you, it doesn't save anything. If you want to save- stay out of the market (until you know where it's going). If you want to save capital- risk less. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying stop losses are useless nor am I saying they shouldn't be used. I think the context in which most are using them is incorrect I'll continue this evening if everyone doesn't mind. sisse is correct- if a bank is about to collapse we should be watching the news
Bro, think again. If you would use SL back then when you traded UJ maybe it would save you some. I have a very close friend, a trader that hates to use SL for a very long time. My trading buddy. I am slowly convincing him, my TE serves for this purpose too, because all my trades had SL in place.
I do trade without SL too, but only on Demo where I am very very patient because I am trading also 4 live accounts beside Demo and Demo is of course not priority. Fear of being stopped out is just a mental issue. If the trade direction AND timing is right, the trade will be green. Everybody makes mistakes either with direction or timing or both ... from time to time and it is good that past profits are secured with SL. At least accident SL ( wider ) should be in place always. My profits on Demo are much much smaller in % because of not using SL.
PVSRA
  • #143,660
  • Sep 29, 2016 12:46pm Sep 29, 2016 12:46pm
Quoting hoom
{quote} Wouldn't it be nice [not for the economy for sure ] that DB is the straw that broke the camel's back thus a time shortcut for my mid term trades !
Will not be nice at all. Many brokers will possible not be able to pay out the profits for your and other traders mid terms trades. If DB goes it will be bloody.
Trading in the shadow of SM
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