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  • #81
  • Edited 7:20am Sep 27, 2016 7:08am | Edited 7:20am
Quoting verv
{quote} The argument has moved on a bit, from being racist to actually saying something deemed offensive. I don't agree with what you said above, as you might as guessed . The problem is that being offended is it is entirely subjective. Below are three examples of the exact same words offending differently: (1) The same words, said with same tone and body language might offend person A, but not offend person B (lets assume they are both white males). (2) The same words, might offend person A when one tone or body language is used, but might not...
That guy was targeting white women. That is both racist and sexist. He called them sluts - find a woman who doesn't find that offensive! Quote, he also said
"They can't do nothing. I am going to come down your house and blow up you and your house." Threat. So, there you have it all. How is that subjective?

Quote one of the comments:
"Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. It means you can air your grievance against your government without fear of persecution. When he's INCITING VIOLENCE and CAUSING A PUBLIC DISTURBANCE, he foregoes any right to free speech." Agree absolutely.
  • #82
  • Edited 9:11am Sep 27, 2016 7:22am | Edited 9:11am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} " Lets test this out you moronic asshole. Having read and endured your pedantic nit-picking vacious rants over the last few months I thought your stupidity had plumbed all the depths.. but this one caps them all. " How does that strike you @verv? .. Are you having a "good" day or a "Bad " one.. Are you feeling "vulnerable" or "bullet-proof" Do you think this abusive and unacceptable or are you sanguine? How susceptible are you to being offended. Do let me know.. So I can in future couch my responses to you appropriately and avoid giving...

Cliff.

Given that I just went to considerable lengths to explain that I don't really care what morons think, you should know better lol.

unhinged
  • #83
  • Sep 27, 2016 7:30am Sep 27, 2016 7:30am
Quoting jen101
{quote} That guy was targeting white women. That is both racist and sexist. He called them sluts - find a woman who doesn't find that offensive! Quote, he also said "They can't do nothing. I am going to come down your house and blow up you and your house." Threat. So, there you have it all. How is that subjective? Quote one of the comments: "Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. It means you can air your grievance against your government without fear of persecution. When he's INCITING VIOLENCE and CAUSING A PUBLIC DISTURBANCE,...

but he also had a white girl friend wearing western clothes so I do not think he's a racist to white people more of a hypocrite and fool
  • #84
  • Sep 27, 2016 7:30am Sep 27, 2016 7:30am
Quoting jen101
{quote} That guy was targeting white women. That is both racist and sexist. He called them sluts - find a woman who doesn't find that offensive! Quote, he also said "They can't do nothing. I am going to come down your house and blow up you and your house." Threat. So, there you have it all. How is that subjective?

Quote one of the comments: "Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. It means you can air your grievance against your government without fear of persecution. When he's INCITING VIOLENCE and CAUSING A PUBLIC DISTURBANCE,...

That's different.

You are talking about inciting violence and causing a public disturbance. If I say the exact same stuff in the privacy of my own home, does that also qualify for inciting violence?

I'm not an absolutist, I have even said above in previous posts that inciting violence is different. I also said that racism is different from being a racist because of the material consequences.

My point is that if you cannot define the law, such that is an objective measurement of what it means to 'control speech' in certain situations then you risk applying that law compromising freedom of speech.

And I'm sorry, but offending a person is not a sufficient reason because it is too wishy washy. And as we can see below:

Quoting cliffedwards
@verv You are now becoming offensive.

BTW who is "we"? as in "we can decide"
People get offended these days very easily, even when you ask them to simply explain their argument... it is a stalling tactic of saying 'please stop', I need my 'safe space'.
  • #85
  • Sep 27, 2016 7:37am Sep 27, 2016 7:37am
Quoting verv
{quote} That's different. You are talking about inciting violence and causing a public disturbance. If I say the exact same stuff in the privacy of my own home, does that also qualify for inciting violence? I'm not an absolutist, I have even said above in previous posts that inciting violence is different. I also said that racism is different from being a racist because of the material consequences. My point is that if you cannot define the law, such that is an objective measurement of what it means to 'control speech' in certain situations then...
Well, clearly the Court doesn't agree with you...... And in the UK, Courts set precedences.
  • #86
  • Edited 7:50am Sep 27, 2016 7:39am | Edited 7:50am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Well, clearly the Court doesn't agree with you......
No, it doesn't.

And as I have described above, I have a problem with some of that interpretation - on this point I fully believe the American constitution which exactly outlines limits is better.

See video below, if you disagree with it let me know which parts please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gciegyiLYtY

Granted I understand that 'Section 5' was reformed in the video above. But I remember watching this years ago, and agreeing with everything Atkinson said, his argument is in the same vein as mine.

More:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9616750/Rowan-Atkinson-we-must-be-allowed-to-insult-each-other.html
  • #87
  • Sep 27, 2016 7:50am Sep 27, 2016 7:50am
Quoting verv
{quote} No. And as I have described above, I have a problem with some of that interpretation - on this point I fully believe the American constitution which exactly outlines limits is better. See video below, if you disagree with it let me know which parts please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gciegyiLYtY Granted I understand that 'Section 5' was reformed in the video above. But I remember watching this years ago, and agreeing with everything Atkinson said, his argument is in the same vein as mine. More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9616750/Rowan-Atkinson-we-must-be-allowed-to-insult-each-other.html...
I do see your point. I think however in the case of that Muslim guy, he was acting aggressively and threatening people. Others feared for their safety. That may be the difference.
  • #88
  • Edited 9:09am Sep 27, 2016 7:58am | Edited 9:09am
Quoting jen101
{quote} I do see your point. I think however in the case of that Muslim guy, he was acting aggressively and threatening people. Others feared for their safety. That may be the difference.

Thing is I can see your point also

I don't know where is appropriate to draw the line.

I think it needs serious discussion, and I think 'the line' needs to be as objective as possible.

I'm not happy with the system as it stands though, because I think it is too subjective, and there are no reasonably limits on how to apply the law to the detriment of free speech which I strongly believe should remain free.

But I'm just a forexfactory poster, and I don't think Theresa much cares for old verv's ramblings
  • #89
  • Edited 8:18am Sep 27, 2016 8:01am | Edited 8:18am
Quoting jen101
{quote} If you think Hillary is a scary option, look at our opposition. John McDonnell is our shadow Chancellor. He is a self declared Marxist and a very dangerous man! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808852/Labour-La-La-Land-Pledge-borrow-500bn-state-benefits-MP-punches-wall-Trident-row-party-plunges-fresh-round-infighting-incompetence.html They want to raise the minimum wage to 10/hour but even scarier than that, they want to enforce a MAXIMUM wage! Crikes. Then, once they have a band in place, it would just be a matter of...
Can someone tell me how that is not communism?

Oh and Corbyn should get a fashion coach! How does anybody take some one serious (Corbyn) when they are seen with their tie tucked into their pants?

He looks a little too much on the sauce if you want to know the truth!
  • #90
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:14am Sep 27, 2016 8:14am
Quoting ThunderHeart
{quote} Can someone tell me how that is not communism? Oh and Corbyn should get a fashion coach! How does anybody take some one serious (Corbyn) when they are seen with their tie tucked into their pants? He looks a little to much on the sauce if you want to know the truth!
According to John McDonnell it is iPad socialism
  • #91
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:16am Sep 27, 2016 8:16am
Quoting verv
{quote} No, it doesn't. And as I have described above, I have a problem with some of that interpretation - on this point I fully believe the American constitution which exactly outlines limits is better. See video below, if you disagree with it let me know which parts please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gciegyiLYtY Granted I understand that 'Section 5' was reformed in the video above. But I remember watching this years ago, and agreeing with everything Atkinson said, his argument is in the same vein as mine. More: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9616750/Rowan-Atkinson-we-must-be-allowed-to-insult-each-other.html...
  • #92
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:16am Sep 27, 2016 8:16am
Britain will be better off than the EU after Brexit and 'highly attractive' for investors, says Germany business chief

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808814/Britain-better-EU-Brexit-says-Germany-business-chief.html#ixzz4LSgPlNO3

I like his take on the EU "the EU becomes a ‘transfer union’ in which money is funnelled from rich states to poor ones"
  • #93
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:18am Sep 27, 2016 8:18am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} According to John McDonnell it is iPad socialism
Is that a new invention? Or is he counting on the sheep who are controlled by such devices for his support?
  • #94
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:21am Sep 27, 2016 8:21am
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  • #95
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:29am Sep 27, 2016 8:29am
Quoting verv
{quote} Thing is I can see you point also I don't know where is appropriate to draw the line. I think it needs serious discussion, and I think 'the line' needs to be as objective as possible. I'm not happy with the system as it stands though, because I think it is too subjective, and there are no reasonably limits on how to apply the law to the detriment of free speech. But I'm just a forexfactory poster, and I don't think Theresa much cares for old verv's ramblings
This thread is getting soft!

Here's to a nice cup of tea. (Proper tea that is, not Lipton Yellow or any American shit )

https://youtu.be/6pR1cVgk7Is
  • #96
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:29am Sep 27, 2016 8:29am
Quoting ThunderHeart
{image}

Is that Jeremy Corbyn after his visit to the fashion coach. I think he was also trying to hide his beard (or is now a goatee?)
  • #97
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:35am Sep 27, 2016 8:35am
Quoting jen101
{quote} This thread is getting soft! Here's to a nice cup of tea. (Proper tea that is, not Lipton Yellow or any American shit ) https://youtu.be/6pR1cVgk7Is
Hey! Easy now! I like my "Celestial Seasons"! Besides, nothing beats Chinese tea!
  • #98
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:37am Sep 27, 2016 8:37am
Quoting ThunderHeart
{quote} Is that a new invention? Or is he counting on the sheep who are controlled by such devices for his support?
I'm not sure he would know what an iPad is, but his advisors suggested that it would make him and Jeremy look more technologically with it, to appeal to the "youff" voter
  • #99
  • Sep 27, 2016 8:54am Sep 27, 2016 8:54am
Quoting ThunderHeart
{quote} Hey! Easy now! I like my "Celestial Seasons"! Besides, nothing beats Chinese tea!
This is how you do it:

https://youtu.be/mfQ5HNgRXsQ
https://youtu.be/jRB60d3Q_1A
  • #100
  • Sep 27, 2016 9:00am Sep 27, 2016 9:00am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Is that Jeremy Corbyn after his visit to the fashion coach. I think he was also trying to hide his beard (or is now a goatee?)

No No No! Don't insult the the nice legs!
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