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Attachments: Reality of FOREX: my experience with brokers + share yours
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Reality of FOREX: my experience with brokers + share yours

  • #401
  • Sep 19, 2016 8:14am Sep 19, 2016 8:14am
Quoting Noorx
{quote} Still the same answer, no reason to criticize Oanda company. If you're going to open up a thread blaming brokers for your mis-calculations then you better not. Cheers.
If my experience is not enough for you, just read through other threads at FF here, here, here, you fill also find a lot of discussion here. Or ask other traders in this thread - they will share their experience too. Anyway, if you are making profits with them, I am happy to hear it and I admire it too
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  • #402
  • Sep 19, 2016 8:23am Sep 19, 2016 8:23am
Quoting scalpeur
{quote} No reason, i am not agre with you, i close my accompte in july 2016. http://img4.hostingpics.net/thumbs/m...9oandacrap.jpg {image}
Thanks for sharing! Could you provide us with little more background? What are all those "balance updates"? If I understand it right, you opened and closed all the trades manually, correct? (no order was executed at SL or TP). Also the three trades with the same closing price 35,726 are quite interesting - as they were executed at the same price, but with something like 4 seconds time difference.
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  • #403
  • Sep 19, 2016 9:17am Sep 19, 2016 9:17am
Quoting TradingLife
{quote} Thanks for sharing! Could you provide us with little more background? What are all those "balance updates"? If I understand it right, you opened and closed all the trades manually, correct? (no order was executed at SL or TP). Also the three trades with the same closing price 35,726 are quite interesting - as they were executed at the same price, but with something like 4 seconds time difference.
Wouaw, i cannot get all my statement mt4, oanda remove the data before 19 june 2016, but i have many print screen make before as proof:

The problem start on 23 may 2016 (see the screenshot).

I already ask them on oanda forum, but never clearly answer, they say can be many thing, that's they say.

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  • #404
  • Sep 19, 2016 10:10am Sep 19, 2016 10:10am
Quoting TradingLife
{quote} Well you are pretty right that they write everything in their terms & conditions. Still those brokers usually scam traders by slippages / execution delays etc. to make traders lose even faster. By their terms&conditions I bet that they have some rules that they don't have to send you all your deposits. At least it's not ethic, but it's probably still legal. That's just the way how they are doing their business and making huge profits.

Yes, it's true, but I don't understand why people believe that brokers are charity institutions that throw money away with bonuses, it's obvious that there are no free money, so bonus must have specific rules to be withdrawn and it's always removed when loss is near client whole deposit.
  • #405
  • Sep 19, 2016 5:03pm Sep 19, 2016 5:03pm
Quoting scalpeur
{quote} Wouaw, i cannot get all my statement mt4, oanda remove the data before 19 june 2016, but i have many print screen make before as proof: The problem start on 23 may 2016 (see the screenshot). I already ask them on oanda forum, but never clearly answer, they say can be many thing, that's they say. {image} {image}

Looks to me like you have open positions and sometimes get interest, sometimes you have to pay the interest which is titlet as "balance update". You should ask your account manager what this means.
May the Pip be with you.
  • #406
  • Sep 19, 2016 5:44pm Sep 19, 2016 5:44pm
Quoting Chris1008
{quote} Looks to me like you have open positions and sometimes get interest, sometimes you have to pay the interest which is titlet as "balance update". You should ask your account manager what this means.
It's not the interest, i already ask them.

And with oanda i never trade a pair with negative interest, every time go with the positive interest as the JAP/TRY long only.
  • #407
  • Sep 19, 2016 5:51pm Sep 19, 2016 5:51pm
Here the answer from oanda:

After the the answer, i try 1 week, no make order, but still negative balance many time a day.

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  • #408
  • Sep 20, 2016 3:19am Sep 20, 2016 3:19am
Quoting insomniawawa
{quote} Yes, it's true, but I don't understand why people believe that brokers are charity institutions that throw money away with bonuses, it's obvious that there are no free money, so bonus must have specific rules to be withdrawn and it's always removed when loss is near client whole deposit.
Absolutely agree - there are no free money. The fact is that the bonuses are not withdraw-able and everything go to the b-book of the broker. So don't know why they let traders to loose all, the brokers would get all the money just little bit later. Bit still, doing business with the bonuses is not professional and people just love free things, that's probably why they are doing it. Plus if those brokers are selling their services aggressively via phone calls, they will probably catch a lot of people like that.
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  • #409
  • Sep 20, 2016 3:21am Sep 20, 2016 3:21am
Quoting scalpeur
Here the answer from oanda: After the the answer, i try 1 week, no make order, but still negative balance many time a day. {image}
Lol, after reading their response - it seems like you are paying them when you log in to your account or your MT4 sync with their servers I've never seen similar response from a broker before
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  • #410
  • Sep 21, 2016 6:32am Sep 21, 2016 6:32am
Do broker Hunt Stop Loss ?

Before I begin, it’s important to note that I have simplified a lot of the concepts for the purposes of this illustration; so things are not quite as simple and straight forward as I suggest in this post. Bear in mind that I am only trying to explain the basic principles.

we looked at the concept of 'stop hunting' and why retail brokers probably do not hunt the stops of their self-trading clients (you). Nonetheless, that is not to say it has never happened in the history of Forex trading; it simply means that nowadays, with the increase in regulation and the wide selection of credible brokers available, it should not be a concern.

So, if it isn’t the brokers that are hunting your stops then who is it and why are they doing it?
To better understand this, we need to develop a deeper insight into how the larger institutions operate and how their operations affect our trading plans. The distinction here is purely down to trade size; so even though I was trading millions of dollars at the height of my fund trading career, market still considered a 'tiny fish' in the same pool as the retail clients trading their own micro-accounts.

When looking for trading opportunities, the whole basis of our operation is to calculate which way the market might go next. More importantly, we need to time it stringently so that we enter the market in that direction as it starts taking off.

This is known as the 'Perfect Trade'.

How do larger institutions trade?
A large institution such as a bank, on the other hand, will significantly differ in the way that they trade. These are the players creating the moves and thus they have to time things completely differently.

Now, imagine that you are a large bank and that you have previously bought into the market and the market has now rallied so that you are in profit. The problem for you is that when you engage the market, you move it. This means that when you click ‘buy’, the price almost always goes up, until your order can be satisfied with enough sellers. This, of course, ends up giving you a worse price. This is called 'slippage', and is a big issue for large scale traders.

Another major issue is that of taking profits. Just like 'slippage', the same rules apply; if you just dump your position, the market is likely to revert against you (when closing a 'buy' order, you must sell it back to the market and that short, can push the price back down towards your entry point, wiping out some of the profits).

It's a troubling problem as I'm sure you'll agree.

So, how do large players exit their positions whilst ensuring that they do not push the price against themselves?

The answer is, of course, 'stop hunting'!

Here is an example:

The Large Player (LP) is long in position and wants to exit and take their profits.

The price is just below a level of strong resistance and the LP can see that there is likely to be a lot of traders placing Sell Orders at that level. In anticipation of the price moving down from that level, they can also see any orders that are placed on their books at these areas; providing further confirmation of pools of liquidity being present.

Additionally, the LP now knows that there is likely to be a nice big pool of Stop Loss Orders just above that level of resistance. This is where those traders will be cutting their losses in the event of the resistance failing to push price down.

These Stop Losses will of course, be Buying Orders.

Remember, the LP wants to sell their position back to the market so in order to do this (and to avoid pushing the price back down against themselves), they need enough buyers at a single price.

The pool of Stop Loss Orders (Buying Orders) is perfect for this.

The LP then calculates the cost of slightly pushing the price up, through the resistance level to the pool of Stop Loss Orders. Then, if it’s cost effective to do so, the LP forces the price to spike up into the orders. Here, they close their main position and due to their order size, avoid the price coming down.

Conclusion
As retail traders, we see these spikes, take out our stops and then drop in our intended direction and immediately get annoyed and think there is a conspiracy to get us. The truth is that there is a conspiracy; but it’s not personal and it’s usually the larger traders and not your broker working against you in this manner. (source JD)
Never Gamble Forex
  • #411
  • Sep 21, 2016 7:47am Sep 21, 2016 7:47am
Admit the reality. Brokers are not the main reason for your failure. After 5 years of endevour, if you still not successful, then that's because you're not smart enough. There are always smarter people. They learn fast and they can achieve things average people cannot achieve in their whole lives. That's cruel but that's reality....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #412
  • Sep 21, 2016 8:26am Sep 21, 2016 8:26am
Quoting heispark
Admit the reality. Brokers are not the main reason for your failure. After 5 years of endevour, if you still not successful, then that's because you're not smart enough. There are always smarter people. They learn fast and they can achieve things average people cannot achieve in their whole lives. That's cruel but that's reality....
It's just that trading require some specific personality traits that some people have and others don't. Mastering own emotions, having strong discipline day in, day out, having patience...don't have anything to do with intelligence. Of course, intelligence is necessary for this business since it's an intellectual one but you can be very intelligent and still be a bad trader.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #413
  • Sep 22, 2016 7:23am Sep 22, 2016 7:23am
Quoting yesyoucan
Do broker Hunt Stop Loss ? Before I begin, its important to note that I have simplified a lot of the concepts for the purposes of this illustration; so things are not quite as simple and straight forward as I suggest in this post. Bear in mind that I am only trying to explain the basic principles. we looked at the concept of 'stop hunting' and why retail brokers probably do not hunt the stops of their self-trading clients (you). Nonetheless, that is not to say it has never happened in the history of Forex trading; it simply means that nowadays,...
Thanks for your interesting post. I agree that it is not personal and no one is watching any account of any trader and moving market for 100 pips to hit his Stop-Losses. But following your post, you should consider two things:

A) there are about 10%, maybe even 5%, of brokers who are true ECN / STP / taking liquidity from interbank market. It means that something like 90% of brokers are b-booking / market making. As I wrote previously, the bad ECN / STPs can be still market makers with only one liquidity provider / b-book that is providing liquidity to the bad ECN / STP. Still none of the orders will get to the real market. And in this case the conflict of interests is clear. The fact is also that we, as retail traders, are so small that we will never be able to provide liquidity against huge orders of banks or corporations.

B) Brokers, even the scamming ones, surely (or at least usually) don't move the price against you for 50 or 100 pips. But the fact is that they can execute your orders with huge slippages, delays, widen spreads, execute your SLs with negative slippages and TPs without positive slippage etc. This all worsen your success probability / results and bring huge earnings to the brokers. Plus the bad brokers will earn the whole deposit if someone burns an account with them of course.
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  • #414
  • Sep 22, 2016 7:27am Sep 22, 2016 7:27am
Quoting heispark
Admit the reality. Brokers are not the main reason for your failure. After 5 years of endevour, if you still not successful, then that's because you're not smart enough. There are always smarter people. They learn fast and they can achieve things average people cannot achieve in their whole lives. That's cruel but that's reality....
Yep, brokers are probably not the main reason, but can do and influence a lot. Just count for yourself, if you have with the fair broker with neutral slippage in the long-term, so you have the trading costs something like 1 pip. But with the scamming broker you will get worse spread, 0,4 pips average slippage on every order (entry as well as exit), than you can trade with something like 2 pip costs and this makes a great difference.
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  • #415
  • Sep 22, 2016 7:29am Sep 22, 2016 7:29am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} It's just that trading require some specific personality traits that some people have and others don't. Mastering own emotions, having strong discipline day in, day out, having patience...don't have anything to do with intelligence. Of course, intelligence is necessary for this business since it's an intellectual one but you can be very intelligent and still be a bad trader.
Correct, psychology matters a lot.. it's more about the psychology, controlling yourself, managing money / accepting risks and let your profits run than intelligence - as you wrote. EAs can help with the psychology and self-control a lot.
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  • #416
  • Sep 22, 2016 8:14am Sep 22, 2016 8:14am
TradingLife Thanks for starting a very interesting and informative thread . I really, really appreciate your genuine efforts , right from the beginning u are replying every post sincerely without any biased attitude. U R A REAL TRADER , but i have a one question why very very few , traders are complaining about their BROKERS . WHY ?????????????
  • #417
  • Edited 3:52pm Sep 22, 2016 11:57am | Edited 3:52pm
Quoting TradingLife
{quote} Thanks for your pretty interesting post. You are more than right. The banks you are trading with are claiming that they are pure STPs and sending all the orders to some interbank platform or are you trading through some of the interbank platforms directly? I've heard that minimum volume with interbank platforms like EBS is 10 standard lots. I think that those banks can still execute orders like market makers and they probably hedge the orders on the interbank market depending on their current cash flow and risk management. But this might...
I think with my bank's fx account, -given the fact that the Norwegian stock exchange business is like the middle age, it is most likely the bank itself that provides their 1:20 leverage, and by that most likely act as a MM as well. It's just cooks down to the fact that they're a big bank, regulated by the Norwegian Finance authorities, and that's where the honesty part as I talked about becomes important again. Since their a bank they have to play nicely, or it can become a disaster for them in media, in a very competitive national bank market. They can't afford accusations of market manipulation or playing dirty.

I have started looking at bigger brokers as mentioned, outside the cfd/retail market to just filter aside some of all the problems that have been discussed in this thread. Been looking more into Exante lately, they seems promising, with a very up to date platform and do provide a wide set of different instruments. 10K$ to open an account with them. Great tradingview.com integration as well in their web-platform.

They do provide leverage at spot FX and metal instruments, 1:30 or some, but their disclosure of how they operate through a transparent orderbook system seems trustworthy though;

https://exante.eu/markets/Currencies/

I will contact them to explain this a bit more about the instruments above, and where they get their liquidity from with these instruments.




There is always pure futures left though as a last solution. They do provide great liquidity as well - I guess that is the safest choice, although it will require quite some account balance.


Any of you guys have experience with, or heard other's about Exante?
  • #418
  • Sep 23, 2016 1:47am Sep 23, 2016 1:47am
is pepperstone good?
I have plan for long life trading in this market
I want to know that this broker is good Enough

cause I have no problem since I trade with them

but I want to know from experienced trader

that this is good enough
  • #419
  • Sep 23, 2016 4:09am Sep 23, 2016 4:09am
Quoting msqtrader
TradingLife Thanks for starting a very interesting and informative thread . I really, really appreciate your genuine efforts , right from the beginning u are replying every post sincerely without any biased attitude. U R A REAL TRADER , but i have a one question why very very few , traders are complaining about their BROKERS . WHY ?????????????
Thanks msqtrader! I appreciate your feedback! Well traders usually read everywhere that if they loose, itīs only their own fault because of their bad decisions. This was discussed quite a lot in this thread - it is true in case of a lot of traders. But there are also so many traders who donīt really recognize and understand what cheating tricks can their broker play with them.
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  • #420
  • Sep 23, 2016 5:52am Sep 23, 2016 5:52am
I would also add Vipro Markets to the list, this broker specialises in forex, CFDs and precious metals and energy products. Offers also many deposit and withdrawal options and optimum execution of order. They also allow scalping and EA’s.
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