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Phillips Capital | First Retail Forex Exchange in US?

  • #41
  • Sep 8, 2016 8:51pm Sep 8, 2016 8:51pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} I thought you are rallying everybody to have Philip Capital to build a glorious Retail Forex Exchange for everybody. What's this trading contest? LOL If you are so keen on having a Retail Forex Exchange, why don't YOU build one? Since you obviously have the knowledge, the know-how, the experience, the cash and you are a "private fund manager" and is incorporated... WHY make us call up this Philip Capital? Why don't YOU team up with Philip Capital and build this exchange and then come back to us? We are all little retail traders who have...
You are simply not capable of coherent dialogue. You've wasted away in retail hell for so long and you've failed to produce lasting results that reliably grow capital and you cannot fathom anything beyond that tiny little world you've created for yourself.

When you reach a point where you can grew up long enough to realize just how silly you read, then come back and apologize for being a Troll. You are one of those people who says something that is clearly proven wrong and then pretends that he never said it. Go READ your comments about Interactive Brokers. That alone disqualifies you from authoring anything helpful or useful inside this thread.

Either be the Troll, or be the Trader. You have a choice.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #42
  • Sep 8, 2016 9:09pm Sep 8, 2016 9:09pm
Why doesn't CME or one of the other exchanges do this? They already have technology. If it was profitable wouldn't they go after it?
  • #43
  • Sep 8, 2016 9:29pm Sep 8, 2016 9:29pm
I don't care if you have hidden agendas or not, but you do have a point. I know where you're coming from..I tried institutional platforms and the difference is light years ahead; calling Retail bucket shops 'brokers' or comparing them to institutional execution is like comparing your 80's barely-moving Honda Civic to a brand new Bugatti. (With all due respect to Honda...This is just for illustration purposes)...What's happening here kinda reminds me of The Matrix movie..Retail traders are so used to bullshit from brokers that they think this is the norm, they're still reading reviews about which bucket shop is the best...They're still using a shitty bucket shop that lost 300 million dollar in 1 day and was about to go bankrupt, but they got an emergency loan from a loan shark to cover their ugly face/losses, They're just seeking the cleanest dirty shirt, They're so used to this misleading world of Retail Bullshit that their mind can't even consider other options, They never saw a clean shirt before. And even if they heard about it, most probably won't believe you...They're living in The Matrix...They never tried the Red Pill before
Simplicity is the key to brilliance.
  • #44
  • Sep 8, 2016 9:46pm Sep 8, 2016 9:46pm
Quoting Inceptionist
I don't care if you have hidden agendas or not, but you do have a point. I know where you're coming from..I tried institutional platforms and the difference is light years ahead; calling Retail bucket shops 'brokers' or comparing them to institutional execution is like comparing your 80's barely-moving Honda Civic to a brand new Bugatti. (With all due respect to Honda...This is just for illustration purposes)...What's happening here kinda reminds me of The Matrix movie..Retail traders are so used to bullshit from brokers that they think this is...
We might be living in the Matrix (and actually it's NOT true. We DO know the merit of having REAL foreign currency exchange - it's so ironic that forex the word itself stands for foreign exchange and yet the actual "foreign exchange" is traded OTC but nobody is willing to offer it because it's just not profitable enough) but Philip Capital is NOT the red pill.

iDouble is NOT advocating for an exchange; it's promoting Philip Capital which is a Futures broker.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #45
  • Sep 8, 2016 9:47pm Sep 8, 2016 9:47pm
Quoting nonlinear
Why doesn't CME or one of the other exchanges do this? They already have technology. If it was profitable wouldn't they go after it?
You do bring up a really good point in all this and it does show the history behind such a concept, at least here in the United States. What you are referring to was once called FXMS put together by both CME and Reuters. It was supposed to be the first "official" GFE (global forex exchange) with central clearing, but it failed because of its inability to attract sufficient liquidity. However, that problem was back before the 2008, economic melt down and it finally came to a head in about the 2008 time frame if memory serves.

I am not quite sure that having it rooted out of London, was the right thing to do. I don't know why it could not have been based out of Chicago or even New York, for that matter - or least somewhere here in the United States. The other problem was no doubt the way it was marketed and to whom it targeted as depositors. It was not pitched or classified as the current "Retail" model is today, where you can open an account with a low minimum deposit - a model that let's face it, does attract more "accounts" in the absolute column but it does not show up in large numbers on the balance sheet. For whom they did target, somehow that was not sufficient to attract the level of liquidity necessary to keep it going, however. That is a crucial point, no doubt.

This is why I say that Timing is very important. Today, is 2016 and the same broad economic factors are simply not at play as they were between the time FXMS was initiated in 2006 and when it was boarded-up in 2008. Liquidity globally had dried up back then and banks were certainly not in the extensibility mode they are now in today in terms of expanding new horizons. Lots of money got sidelined as a direct result of 2008 and there is still plenty of it looking for avenues to penetrate into new markets and new opportunities today.

Could CME and Reuters team up and do it again? Personally, I'd sure like to see that and I think under the current global economic substrate that the result now would be quite different than it was back between 06 and 08. You do ask a very good question, however. And, it does demonstrate the importance of deep liquidity.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #46
  • Sep 8, 2016 9:54pm Sep 8, 2016 9:54pm
Quoting nonlinear
Why doesn't CME or one of the other exchanges do this? They already have technology. If it was profitable wouldn't they go after it?

BTW - Reuters did acquire FXall and that platform is now being offered by Reuters for FX Trading. It is an institutional platform and it was already one of the most liquid FX platforms in existence before the acquisition took place. It has to be even larger in terms of commercial bank liquidity specifically engaging in FX transactions today.

So, we know that at least Reuters is still in the business of making its offerings more extensible. But, again, would the CME and Reuters team up again, who knows. I'd sure like to see it happen.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #47
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:06pm Sep 8, 2016 10:06pm
Quoting Inceptionist
...What's happening here kinda reminds me of The Matrix movie..Retail traders are so used to bullshit from brokers that they think this is the norm, they're still reading reviews about which bucket shop is the best...They're still using a shitty bucket shop that lost 300 million dollar in 1 day and was about to go bankrupt, but they got an emergency loan from a loan shark to cover their ugly face/losses, They're just seeking the cleanest dirty shirt, They're so used to this misleading world of Retail Bullshit that their mind can't even consider...
Nailed it.


Quoting Inceptionist
And even if they heard about it, most probably won't believe you...They're living in The Matrix...They never tried the Red Pill before
It is one of the main reasons why I don't do anymore online sharing of my developed ideas and concepts. People will see something being sold to them without ever locating a sales receipt from anyone. There is such myopia in Retail FX today, that I wonder how it is possible for most of its Traders to remain alive in the business.

Trading well and for prolonged periods of time, especially at the retail level, requires a broad minded approach, hard work and lots of creativity. If people cannot even fathom seeing themselves making a phone call that might change their own potential for success in this business, then I hardly think they have what it takes to remain with a Bucket Shop and translate that relationship into long term success.

Of course, my idea of long term success as a Trader is being able to grow capital geometrically. Hard to do, but that's always my goal and my focus, so all of my research has gone into finding ways to make that a reality. That leads to better System design, less risk and better profitability long term.

The mentality of the typical Retail Trader, especially in Forex over the last 15 years that I have observed, has become so incredibly shortsighted and unable to see the forest for the trees, that I think no amount of red pill swallowing can ever change it at this point. I would guess the number of people willing to do what's is genuinely necessary to graduate from retail hell, is the lowest now than it was back when first got started trading Equity Options in the early 90s.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #48
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:07pm Sep 8, 2016 10:07pm
Above my pay grade on these topics, but I get more concerned as my lot size grows. I am intrigued by brokers like Global Prime who will show you who filled your order, not that I can get an individual account with them, but perhaps someday an off-shore institutional. Of course, they take a mark-up but at least it is transparent.
  • #49
  • Edited 11:15pm Sep 8, 2016 10:08pm | Edited 11:15pm
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} You do bring up a really good point in all this and it does show the history behind such a concept, at least here in the United States. What you are referring to was once called FXMS put together by both CME and Reuters. It was supposed to be the first "official" GFE (global forex exchange) with central clearing, but it failed because of its inability to attract sufficient liquidity. However, that problem was back before the 2008, economic melt down and it finally came to a head in about the 2008 time frame if memory serves. I am not quite...
Now we are getting somewhere. FXMS (FXMarketspace) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fxmarketspace would be something that not just retail traders but ALL spot foreign currency traders are looking for, a true global central exchange for spot foreign currency where all currencies are traded with ONE central price. And see it would NOT be something that can be started by a broker but it would be an joint effort on a global level and in this case by an existing exchange and the world's largest quote services that all institutions tap into. Exactly what I said in my previous post:

Quoting Forexia
{quote}An exchange is a meeting place where everybody freely trades an instrument with a centralized price. Since spot forex is traded WORLDWIDE because it's MONEY that people use everyday at every single minute of the day, you need to open this exchange to EVERYBODY in ALL corners of the world basically as long as this currency is used in this place, it has to have access to the exchange 24/7 otherwise all you have is still a localized ECN by one or at best few brokers. So it's not even just a bunch of brokers and institutions getting together...
And it makes sense that they would want to have it in London because London is still considered THE place for Foreign Exchange just like New York is THE place for stocks and Chicago is THE place for commodity exchange. Old habits die hard. The European market is still the market where the trading volume is the highest out of all of the four markets in forex.

I do hope CME and Reuters (or Bloomberg) team up again to create a central exchange for spot foreign currency, something similiar to FXMS. But the brokers are still needed to provide the platform and leverage to us retail traders along with the institutions providing the clearing services. So the people for us to call to revive this TRUE foreign currency exchange is CME AND Reuters IF we truly want to have an exchange for foreign currency NOT some futures broker like Philips Capital.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #50
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:09pm Sep 8, 2016 10:09pm
Quoting Forexia
iDouble is NOT advocating for an exchange; it's promoting Philip Capital which is a Futures broker.
All the while still unable to explain yourself, still unable to read for yourself, still unable to comprehend what you have read and still delusional about something being sold to you when you can't point to a single word anywhere in the thread that demonstrates it.

You are a hyper blue pill swallowing paranoid delusional without common sense, better judgment nor the ability to understand why you are wrong, how you became so wrong and why you continue spewing wrong as though it will someday magically turn itself into right.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #51
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:13pm Sep 8, 2016 10:13pm
Of course, as has been discussed here to a dead horse, one could always trade futures on an exchange, although with limited available contracts and (I here) less liquidity at larger lot sizes. Some on here have done both at decent positions (over 50 lots) and swear by spot liquidity, even through a "broker."
  • #52
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:15pm Sep 8, 2016 10:15pm
But then we will be paying exchange fees, market data fees and whole new set of fees on top of commissions to the brokers who will be just doing order-matching just like when we trade futures or stocks.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #53
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:18pm Sep 8, 2016 10:18pm
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} All the while still unable to explain yourself, still unable to read for yourself, still unable to comprehend what you have read and still delusional about something being sold to you when you can't point to a single word anywhere in the thread that demonstrates it. You are a hyper blue pill swallowing paranoid delusional without common sense, better judgment nor the ability to understand why you are wrong, how you became so wrong and why you continue spewing wrong as though it will someday magically turn itself into right.
Ok time to put you on "Ignore". This is getting ridiculous and pathetic.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #54
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:20pm Sep 8, 2016 10:20pm
It's getting better for futures traders, but, yes, more hurdles there. If there ever was a true FX exchange, I expect one would have to pay to play like futures. For better or worse, MQ at least opened a somewhat deceiving door to retail traders many years ago, which the US has gradually closed.
  • #55
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:33pm Sep 8, 2016 10:33pm
Quoting nonlinear
Above my pay grade on these topics, but I get more concerned as my lot size grows. I am intrigued by brokers like Global Prime who will show you who filled your order, not that I can get an individual account with them, but perhaps someday an off-shore institutional. Of course, they take a mark-up but at least it is transparent.

I don't have a problem with "off-shore" as long as "off-shore" is regulated in relationship to segregated funds and as long as the entity doing the trading is "off-shore" as well. This is where an attorney competent in tax jurisdictions, resident status, and corporate/business entity structuring becomes invaluable. Deutsche Bank, has a number of different global services but that's all at the institutional level.

LMAX, has some interesting offerings, but you need to be an "entity" outside the US. I know of two Traders who have established Proprietary Trading Firms where they are "Chief Trading Strategist" of the firm. They are mere "employees" of the firm and are therefore, not trading their own capital. Those firms are not located or headquartered within United States jurisdiction and such a firm would not have a problem with 7 USC 1a or anything relative to Dodd-Frank's extensions to prohibitions on "US" based Traders or Financial Services entities.

It takes work and study, but if you really have a need to move beyond retail hell, there are solid and legal methods for establishing a business entity that handles things you cannot handle yourself.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #56
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:37pm Sep 8, 2016 10:37pm
Yes, that is exactly what I mean, and, of course, to set that up legally and properly also costs decent money. I don't mind being the key employee.
  • #57
  • Edited 11:12pm Sep 8, 2016 10:53pm | Edited 11:12pm
Quoting nonlinear
It's getting better for futures traders, but, yes, more hurdles there. If there ever was a true FX exchange, I expect one would have to pay to play like futures. For better or worse, MQ at least opened a somewhat deceiving door to retail traders many years ago, which the US has gradually closed.
I don't know WHY FXMS closed down though. According to the Wiki article, it seemed that they had EVERYTHING covered, speed, efficiency, centralized clearing AND anonymity which was a BIG issue aka excuse used by the "Big Banks" to not having spot foreign currency traded on an open exchange.

And FXMS even eliminated the credit risk and settlement risk which is always an issue with exchanges where without huge clearing firms holding down the fort during crisis time the exchange would collapse. But then again maybe they never stress-tested the exchange to see how it would REALLY hold up during major news or economic numbers time. Imagine one day spot foreign currency of the ENTIRE world are all traded on ONE centralized exchange and a huge sudden event like SNB crisis of last year happened and all of the banks who most likely would be the clearing firms of the exchange decided to bail like what they did last year then the entire exchange would collapse and in reality the entire foreign exchange market did collapse for about an hour when some of the largest banks stopped providing quotes. Spot foreign currency is MONEY, legal tenders that everybody uses at every single minute, second of the day. You can't really have trading halts like in those stock exchanges where whenever there is tiny bit of news for a company, there is a trading halt for the company then nobody can exchange money anymore. And spot foreign currency is largely impacted on a regular basis by economic numbers and/or major news, what are you going to do? Have a trading halt every time when the NFP numbers come out? What if somebody wants to exchange EU for USD just at the time when the NFP number is coming out? And if you DO decide to always keep the exchange running regardless what happens, then those clearing firms would need to be prepared to take on potentially HUGE losses when some BIG shit hit the fan because all trades settle through them, so no matter what happens, they would have to "hold down the fort" and be on the opposite side of the transaction even if they are losing. (Just to give you an idea, LMAX currently is running something close to an exchange for spot foreign currency and you are not allowed to trade on news with them) Many specialists on the NY stock exchange went bankrupt during those "Black Friday'" events.

I dunno if that is the reason why the FXMS closed down because it did seem to close down during the financial crisis. So having spot foreign currency traded on an central exchange is an evolutionary step but there is a lot of issues that need to be worked out.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #58
  • Sep 8, 2016 10:58pm Sep 8, 2016 10:58pm
Quoting nonlinear
Above my pay grade on these topics, but I get more concerned as my lot size grows. I am intrigued by brokers like Global Prime who will show you who filled your order, not that I can get an individual account with them, but perhaps someday an off-shore institutional. Of course, they take a mark-up but at least it is transparent.
If you want something that is closer to a true ECN, you should try IB. IB is still offering leveraged forex trading to small-capital investors in countries outside of US. Global Prime, at best, is a hybrid STP broker where it selectively chooses to be a market maker and an ECN.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #59
  • Sep 8, 2016 11:25pm Sep 8, 2016 11:25pm
Quoting nonlinear
Yes, that is exactly what I mean, and, of course, to set that up legally and properly also costs decent money. I don't mind being the key employee.

Or, just a trader within the firm that is off-shore. One can do some interesting things with remote desktop software and a 24hr market.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #60
  • Edited 9:31pm Sep 9, 2016 7:58am | Edited 9:31pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} We might be living in the Matrix (and actually it's NOT true. We DO know the merit of having REAL foreign currency exchange - it's so ironic that forex the word itself stands for foreign exchange and yet the actual "foreign exchange" is traded OTC but nobody is willing to offer it because it's just not profitable enough) but Philip Capital is NOT the red pill. iDouble is NOT advocating for an exchange; it's promoting Philip Capital which is a Futures broker.
You misunderstood what I was trying to say...Philip Capital isn't the Red Pill; i stoch's idea is the Red Pill which we're all afraid to take...He's proposing the idea of calling an interested broker to let them know that many retail traders are interested in doing business with them if they started a true ECN/Currency Exchange...Maybe he's overly optimistic or excited about the idea, but I don't think he's promoting the company itself. Let us know If there's another broker interested in offering a decent ECN/STP/Exchange experience to Retail Traders. We can give them a call. I don't see any point in all these arguments; The man proposed an idea, If you like it, you follow his advice.. If not, ignore his post. Let's keep it simple and clean. Best of luck to you in your trading journey. Regards
Simplicity is the key to brilliance.
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