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10% a month challenge

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 11, 2016 8:45pm Aug 11, 2016 8:45pm
Goal is to make 10%+ profit a month

Rules:
Must trade a live trading account with $1000+ balance
Must not have a draw-down of more that 10%
Must track performance using third party (either FF Trade Explorer or myfxbook)
Trade whatever methodology you want

I will create an account on Monday to start the challenge (so it would be half a month performance for 5% )

Anyone else interested in joining me in this self-challenge? You are welcome to subscribe and enjoy the ride
  • #2
  • Aug 12, 2016 6:41am Aug 12, 2016 6:41am
Quoting JustUsePrice
Goal is to make 10%+ profit a month Rules: Must trade a live trading account with $1000+ balance Must not have a draw-down of more that 10% Must track performance using third party (either FF Trade Explorer or myfxbook) Trade whatever methodology you want I will create an account on Monday to start the challenge (so it would be half a month performance for 5% ) Anyone else interested in joining me in this self-challenge? You are welcome to subscribe and enjoy the ride
Sounds like a good idea!

Especially limiting the maximum DD as this will weed out the ultra traders from those who apply no DD limits.

Can actual trades taken be hidden?

Can the SL + TP levels be hidden from view?

Or is this more like a show all details type of affair?

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #3
  • Aug 12, 2016 9:31am Aug 12, 2016 9:31am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Sounds like a good idea! Especially limiting the maximum DD as this will weed out the ultra traders from those who apply no DD limits. Can actual trades taken be hidden? Can the SL + TP levels be hidden from view? Or is this more like a show all details type of affair? Masterrmind............

It is up to you if you would like to share your trade details or if you just want to show your balance growth, as this is a challenge to self discipline and trying to be profitable at the same time, it is not a thread to show your system, unless you want to and help others trade, it is all good.

Good luck to all
  • #4
  • Aug 12, 2016 9:54am Aug 12, 2016 9:54am
Quoting JustUsePrice
{quote} It is up to you if you would like to share your trade details or if you just want to show your balance growth, as this is a challenge to self discipline and trying to be profitable at the same time, it is not a thread to show your system, unless you want to and help others trade, it is all good. Good luck to all
Sounds like a very good challenge to me.

Maximizing monthly growth at a limited 10% DD.

Should be interesting to see the various strategies applied that limit DD to 10% whilst achieving maximum growth.

You should define your definition of DD too as there are different interpretations.

For example on myfxbook you have the maximum DD and the histogram values:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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You can see the max DD on left side panel is 17.13%
You can see the maximum histogram DD (%) is just over 7.5%

So which parameter will you be applying to this challenge.

Masterrmind.........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #5
  • Edited 10:15am Aug 12, 2016 9:58am | Edited 10:15am
How long did you trade with real money, JustUsePrice?
10% per month seems realistic & get-at-able.
May you do well!
FXcube
  • #6
  • Aug 12, 2016 10:20am Aug 12, 2016 10:20am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Sounds like a very good challenge to me. Maximizing monthly growth at a limited 10% DD. Should be interesting to see the various strategies applied that limit DD to 10% whilst achieving maximum growth. You should define your definition of DD too as there are different interpretations. For example on myfxbook you have the maximum DD and the histogram values: {image} You can see the max DD on left side panel is 17.13% You can see the maximum histogram DD (%) is just over 7.5% So which parameter will you be applying to this challenge. Masterrmind............

Thanks for your input Mastermind.

I am referring to the Maximum drawdown, not the histogram DD.
  • #7
  • Aug 12, 2016 10:22am Aug 12, 2016 10:22am
Quoting Forexcube
How long did you trade with real money, JustUsePrice? 10% per month seems realistic & get-at-able. May you do well! FXcube
I have been trading real money for many years, but have always had a problem with discipline. Hence the creation of this thread to try and be as disciplined as possible, and looking for support from other thread subscribers
  • #8
  • Aug 12, 2016 10:43am Aug 12, 2016 10:43am
Quoting JustUsePrice
{quote} Thanks for your input Mastermind. I am referring to the Maximum drawdown, not the histogram DD.
You also need to be aware that the TE applies maximum return DD which is the peak to trough loss in equity on a given trading account.

For the example account I showed above myfxbook provided a maximum floating DD = - 17.13%

However, on the same account the TE reports the maximum return DD = - 13.6%

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Although this is a friendly challenge to save any disputes later the rules should be set in concrete before trading commences.

This is your call so all I'm doing is bringing it to your attention.

What you should do is have the same analytics applied so there will be no dispute (TE or myfxbook?)

Good trading,

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #9
  • Aug 12, 2016 11:36am Aug 12, 2016 11:36am
forget myfxbook and DD, the DD by myfxbook is not real. It is NOT the highest difference between Equity and Balance

Example:

- 1) one order is 100 $ in minus

- 2) a second order is 100 $ in plus

DD is 0

Not by myfxbook here is the DD 100 $ AFTER the order 1) is closed in win

this is 10% DD the highest in 6 months, today 1.8% DD

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  • #10
  • Aug 12, 2016 11:42am Aug 12, 2016 11:42am
Quoting ghostbiker
forget myfxbook and DD, the DD by myfxbook is not real. It is NOT the highest difference between Equity and Balance Example: - 1) one order is 100 $ in minus - 2) a second order is 100 $ in plus DD is 0 Not by myfxbook here is the DD 100 $ AFTER the order 1) is closed in win
Yes true!

I'm well aware of this but the main point is that we all use the same analytics either TE or myfxbook.

I don't care which one as long as a choice is made ... by the Op!

ps. once your account hits a DD >10% then you are out!

Let the games begin!

Masterrmind..........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #11
  • Aug 12, 2016 11:53am Aug 12, 2016 11:53am
One will need very high leverage to achieve this.
Quant Trader - My Blog: quantstop.blogspot (dot) com
  • #12
  • Aug 12, 2016 2:49pm Aug 12, 2016 2:49pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes true! I'm well aware of this but the main point is that we all use the same analytics either TE or myfxbook. I don't care which one as long as a choice is made ... by the Op! ps. once your account hits a DD >10% then you are out! Let the games begin! Masterrmind..........

Good points made by all. I did not know about all the different DD calculations, and I admit ignorance in this matter. I am going to go with numbers reported by TE and that is it I hope everyone is agreeable to that. AS Mastermind said, if you hit > 10% DD you are out and yes, let the games begin

Good luck to all
  • #13
  • Aug 12, 2016 2:50pm Aug 12, 2016 2:50pm
Quoting aroxalot
One will need very high leverage to achieve this.

Not sure what you mean? on contrary you do not need high leverage to stick with < 10% DD
  • #14
  • Aug 12, 2016 3:45pm Aug 12, 2016 3:45pm
Quoting JustUsePrice
{quote} Not sure what you mean? on contrary you do not need high leverage to stick with < 10% DD
take ernie chan's hedge fund, he achieves returns of 50% annually. his leverage averages between 5 to 10. This is very high for a 50m in AUM fund. If he averaged 12 to 24 leverage, he could get that golden 10% per month. 24x leverage is astronomically high.
Quant Trader - My Blog: quantstop.blogspot (dot) com
  • #15
  • Aug 13, 2016 4:33am Aug 13, 2016 4:33am
Here is an example that some might find interesting in terms of FX trading gains month on month and year on year (Jan 2011 through July 2016).

It is a random example and I certainly have no connection or interest in it whatsoever.
It is a registered CTA Advisor and trading company (Futures and Forex mainly)
I am sure there are many many more examples that could be discussed.
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Source: http://www.qtscm.com/managed-accounts/

The stated historical account leverage ranges from 1 to 13.

Also the account is traded by automation only using a system of trading algorithms.

Note 1: I would have liked to know the month by month maximum leverage used and the maximum DD but this is not provided.
Note 2: Looking at the month by month FX returns except for the year 2011 most months are single digit gains, BE or negative.
Note 3: However, the historical maximum DD is given which is stated at 38% DD !!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The information is provided to give you some idea of what monthly gains you might like to shoot towards and how this translates into YTD returns and the almost 500% gain over an almost 6 year period.

If you can achieve better results than the above (albeit less than a 6 year term) and keep the DD below 10% then you are truly trading like a pro!

Bare in mind though that there are many other managed accounts and hedge funds that have far worse and far better results than the example above.

Do your own research online and you'll soon develop a realistic target worth achieving!

Here is a list of the yearly compounded returns on some of the largest Hedge Funds:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot3.png Size: 48 KB


AUM is in the Billions not millions!

In a nut shell:

If you can trade FX using a maximum 10% DD and achieve double digit monthly growth (>=10% monthly) then you will be very very popular in pro trading circles.

Make it happen team!

Good trading,

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #16
  • Aug 13, 2016 5:13am Aug 13, 2016 5:13am
Quoting JustUsePrice
{quote} Good points made by all. I did not know about all the different DD calculations, and I admit ignorance in this matter. I am going to go with numbers reported by TE and that is it I hope everyone is agreeable to that. AS Mastermind said, if you hit > 10% DD you are out and yes, let the games begin Good luck to all
I am out then. Well discipline is very hard to achieve My friend.

Both TE FF and Myfxbook are good choice to show the DD. Nothing so wrong with that. So far I got -36,8% DD in TE FF and Myfxbook shows -39.45%. Very very big, no matter what the reason.

I hope this thread will be a good thread to learn.

Good Luck.
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #17
  • Aug 13, 2016 5:37am Aug 13, 2016 5:37am
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} I am out then. Well discipline is very hard to achieve My friend. Both TE FF and Myfxbook are good choice to show the DD. Nothing so wrong with that. So far I got -36,8% DD in TE FF and Myfxbook shows -39.45%. Very very big, no matter what the reason. I hope this thread will be a good thread to learn. Good Luck.
The good news though is that this challenge does not start until Monday.

So you are good to go!

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #18
  • Aug 13, 2016 9:26am Aug 13, 2016 9:26am
Quoting Masterrmind
Here is an example that some might find interesting in terms of FX trading gains month on month and year on year (Jan 2011 through July 2016). It is a random example and I certainly have no connection or interest in it whatsoever. It is a registered CTA Advisor and trading company (Futures and Forex mainly) I am sure there are many many more examples that could be discussed. {image} {image} Source: http://www.qtscm.com/managed-accounts/ The stated historical account leverage ranges from 1 to 13. Also the account is traded by automation...
I have no interest in promoting him. I've read one of his books recently so he popped into my head immediately. I was rather trying to make a point on leverage as well as returns. Even the best traders in the world struggle to beat a couple returns a month. If one traded very high leverage it would certainly be possible, but very dangerous unsustainable. Even when I was trading with 50:1 leverage on a $250 account i would only make or break 10%-20% a month (Un leveraged 0.2%-0.4%), only making 2-3 trades each month. It was very unsustainable and i remember at one point losing 25% in a single trade.
Quant Trader - My Blog: quantstop.blogspot (dot) com
  • #19
  • Aug 13, 2016 10:11am Aug 13, 2016 10:11am
Quoting aroxalot
{quote} I have no interest in promoting him. I've read one of his books recently so he popped into my head immediately. I was rather trying to make a point on leverage as well as returns. Even the best traders in the world struggle to beat a couple returns a month. If one traded very high leverage it would certainly be possible, but very dangerous unsustainable. Even when I was trading with 50:1 leverage on a $250 account i would only make or break 10%-20% a month (Un leveraged 0.2%-0.4%), only making 2-3 trades each month. It was very unsustainable...
Thanks for sharing the info its all ok and examples help us strive to meet a certain goal which we know (or believe) has been attained by someone else so why can't we do it.

Well! All traders with a competitive nature should have a go .... there are plenty of great traders floating around FF (are there not??).

In the FX retail world many traders forget about what low or high leverage actually means.

I think they misunderstood you when you said that would take high leverage.

I guess many retail FX traders might see low leverage as 50:1 and high/v,high leverage as >= 200/300/500/1000:1.

Institutional leverage can be a different ball game altogether with generally far lower (much much lower) leverage applied such as 1:1/5:1/10:1.

The starting balance could be an issue too dependent upon the margin required to hold the smallest position size of say 0.01 lot (1000 units of currency) so each competitor will need to do their own homework and work out what best suits them.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'll be keen to see how results evolve over time and if any trader can keep max DD under 10% whilst making double digit gains.

Personally I'll be trading this challenge.

Probably applying 500:1 leverage (however I could easily choose 20:1/50:1 or 100:1)

The thread OP has stated basic rules and leverage forms no part so the skies the limit (1000:1/2000:1 is possible if you wish).

I'm sure there will be traders that will do very well.

Lets see how many months they can keep it going ... that's the real challenge (consistency over multiple months)

I hope you join the challenge.

ps. Thanks for sharing some of your trading experiences ....

Good trading,

Masterrmind.........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #20
  • Aug 13, 2016 10:28am Aug 13, 2016 10:28am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Thanks for sharing the info its all ok and examples help us strive to meet a certain goal which we know (or believe) has been attained by someone else so why can't we do it.
Sorry if I came off as a bit of a Richard, I wouldn't mind competing if I do so on a small account.
Quant Trader - My Blog: quantstop.blogspot (dot) com
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