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BREXIT RULES! The Consequences

  • #301
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:01am Jul 12, 2016 9:01am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} What? to form their opinion, about an opinion? With out consulting the facts for themselves? What? they are too stupid to read the original and form their OWN OPINIONS? WoW! that makes sense Sherlock? I say again.. the facts are here.. http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm Read them and form your own opinion.
You say the "the facts", but all that your link indicates are the rules and procedures, it says nothing to interpretation of these by the EU and its associated bodies.

http://jessenorman.typepad.com/files/speech_on_the_eu_charter_and_ecj_smf_160516.pdf
  • #302
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:22am Jul 12, 2016 9:22am
Quoted from Sa7an:

So what exactly has the EU done for Britain - Just in from an expatriate Brit!

A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Hollands AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of 80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with 20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.
The bicycle for the Greens was made in the Far East, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK.
We used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

Still want to stay? Well it must be some consolation that you have had Cameron to negotiate in Europe on your behalf.
And of course, the real deal-breaker .... democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view.
  • #303
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:34am Jul 12, 2016 9:34am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Thank you @Devauxt.. He is "Doin' me Head in.. Bro"
Thats good I must be doing something right.

Well all the latest activity caused by Brexit is having the opposite effect of what the Remainers had hoped for,,,,, a flurry of countries wanting Trade deals,,,, Sterling appreciating like there's no tomorrow ( where else were the investors going to invest their money? Certainly not dinasaurus EU!!!!

Consumer confidence back ,,,yeah!!!!!!

Also I iz a she
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #304
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:37am Jul 12, 2016 9:37am
Quoting itsallover
{quote}Sterling appreciating like there's no tomorrow
Yes i'm quite impress with the strength of GBPUSD barely 2 weeks after the vote while brexit didn't even happen yet it's only down less than 20 cents! Quite impressive vote of confidence from the investor isn't it? -_-
  • #305
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:37am Jul 12, 2016 9:37am
Quoting NaughtyPip
Quoted from Sa7an: So what exactly has the EU done for Britain - Just in from an expatriate Brit! A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU... Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British...
Wow!
This is just so heartbreaking and I never thought the cost was so high.
I could wring their miserable EU necks!!!! The swines!!!!!

,,,and our fish too! all gone!!!!
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #306
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:43am Jul 12, 2016 9:43am
Quoting NaughtyPip
Quoted from Sa7an: So what exactly has the EU done for Britain - Just in from an expatriate Brit! A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU... Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British...
That's the benign, innocent and benevolent EU for you. The UK giveth and the EU takes some more.
  • #307
  • Edited 9:56am Jul 12, 2016 9:45am | Edited 9:56am
[quote=Devauxt;9025353]{quote} You say the "the facts", but all that your link indicates are the rules and procedures, it says nothing to interpretation of these by the EU and its associated bodies. ./quote]

http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm

"all that your link indicates are the rules and procedures"

"Hey Cliff that contract I want you to sign, is just about the boring old definitions and substance of our agreement.
Dont bother reading all that sh*t.. Come on over to the Bar and Ill introduce you to a friend of mine whose great on this stuff. Hes an SC? no.. Trust him? Of course! Heck hes a politician. Member of my Club, Cant recommend better than that."

On your Bike.
  • #308
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:49am Jul 12, 2016 9:49am
Quoting itsallover
{quote} Sterling appreciating like there's no tomorrow
Very appropriate.. There isnt any. LoL
  • #309
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:54am Jul 12, 2016 9:54am
Quoting itsallover
{quote} Also I iz a she
Madam.. Your Servant.
  • #310
  • Jul 12, 2016 9:57am Jul 12, 2016 9:57am
Quoting cliffedwards
You dont want to be burdened witha ll that stuff.. {quote} "all that your link indicates are the rules and procedures" "Hey Cliff that contract I want you to sign, is just about the boring old definitions and substance of our agreement. Dont bother reading all that sh*t.. Come on over to the Bar and Ill introduce you to a friend of mine whose great on this stuff. Hes an SC? no.. Trust him? Of course! Heck hes a politician. Member of my Club, Cant recommend better than that." On your Bike.
So cliffedwards, are you saying that these rules and procedures are not open to interpretation by the EU?

July 2015 Britain will be liable for close to £1 billion of emergency loans to Greece, it can be revealed, after Jean-Claude Juncker tore up a “black and white” deal to protect UK taxpayers from Eurozone bailouts.
  • #311
  • Jul 12, 2016 11:10am Jul 12, 2016 11:10am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} So cliffedwards, are you saying that these rules and procedures are not open to interpretation by the EU?
'More debating games? Eh? @Devauxt.. You know perfectly well that all law is subject to interpretation, and that the authority and mechanism that interpretation (should it be required? is embodied in the Procedure... Which I exhort everyone to read. here http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm
Read the facts. Form your own opinion. Then and only then take in the opinion of others.

Youre keeping up the old slight of hand arent you?
"Hey Cliff, you cant be serious about reading that boring contract? I mean whats written there means nothing.
Anyway you wont understand it.. let my Buddy James advise you on how the whole legal process is subverted.. and why that contract which has been approved jointly by the best legal minds in the country means nothing?"

Maybe I should start my own blog link..
how_to_read_the_contract_before_some_politician_sells_you_a_crock_of_sh*t
  • #312
  • Jul 12, 2016 11:29am Jul 12, 2016 11:29am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} 'More debating games? Eh? @Devauxt.. You know perfectly well that all law is subject to interpretation, and that the authority and mechanism that interpretation (should it be required? is embodied in the Procedure... Which I exhort everyone to read. here http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm Read the facts. Form your own opinion. Then and only then take in the opinion of others. Youre keeping up the old slight of hand arent you? "Hey Cliff, you cant be serious about reading that boring contract? I mean...
Yet you seem to offer the link as proof that it is a "SERIOUS MISREPRESENTATION that the EU indulges
in the repeatedly alleged "UNDEMOCRATIC IMPOSITION OF REGULATIONS BY UNACCOUNTABLE BUREAUCRATS", when in fact it is only proof that the EU has documented procedures and no more than that.
  • #313
  • Jul 12, 2016 1:27pm Jul 12, 2016 1:27pm
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Im glad your ing, because its a fun story. And it also shows the dangers of not checking ones facts. A problem I understand that has been already pointed out . The answer to your conundrum is that the original petition site was set up by a student, William Oliver Healey, and English Democrat Party supporter and BREXITEER. It was meant to protest an expected Remain outcome, with deliberate backdoors to allow the Brexit creators to manipulate and boost the figures. kery. Which because of the 1 second attention span of the British...
You need not have concerned yourself. The story was well covered in all the news outlets .

I was making a tongue in cheek comment to meyoik

I was about to call you patronising nit ,,,,,, but as I am well past my quota ,,, I'm behaving myself
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #314
  • Jul 12, 2016 1:32pm Jul 12, 2016 1:32pm
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Yet you seem to offer the link as proof that it is a "SERIOUS MISREPRESENTATION that the EU indulges in the repeatedly alleged "UNDEMOCRATIC IMPOSITION OF REGULATIONS BY UNACCOUNTABLE BUREAUCRATS", when in fact it is only proof that the EU has documented procedures and no more than that.
Good. Lets then encourage EVERYONE to read them first.
http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm (http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm)

And form their own opinions as to their democratic credentials and if they allow scope for an unaccountable bureaucracy?
Which is what I believe, you have engaged me in this Pissing Match, to obfuscate, contest and discourage.

After that, and thus informed, everybody will be better able to judge and evaluate the OpEd political right wing views of your nice friend James.
And they will be less likely to accept what are widely contested views, uncritically.??

Sounds fair to Me.

Now Ive had a good day on $ weakness , so Ill bid you good evening, pour myself a nice glass of Fendant
and rewatch that Peter Cook, satirical classic of political manipulation, . "The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer" .(1970) with some friends.
  • #315
  • Jul 12, 2016 1:43pm Jul 12, 2016 1:43pm
Quoting itsallover
{quote} I was about to call you patronising nit ,,,,,, but as I am well past my quota ,,, I'm behaving myself
I would expect no less of a Lady. Bon Nuit.
  • #316
  • Edited 3:01pm Jul 12, 2016 2:12pm | Edited 3:01pm
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Good. Lets then encourage EVERYONE to read them first. http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm (http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm) And form their own opinions as to their democratic credentials and if they allow scope for an unaccountable bureaucracy? Which is what I believe, you have engaged me in this Pissing Match, to obfuscate, contest and discourage. After that, and thus informed, everybody will be better able to judge and evaluate the OpEd political right wing views of your nice...
The reference document states
" Drafting EU law
Before the Commission proposes new initiatives it assesses the potential economic, social and environmental consequences that they may have. It does this by preparing 'Impact assessments' (http://ec.europa.eu/smart-regulation/impact/index_en.htm) which set out the advantages and disadvantages of possible policy options."

Reality - Whilst, Impact assessments are the framework on which EU institutions base their preliminary views of proposed laws. They are supposed to ensure legislative proposals are evidenced based. Yet they are kept confidential until the Commission publishes its proposal. If no directive is proposed, the impact assessment is never published. This means there is no public input on the type of instrument chosen, the evidence used or reasoning behind the final decision. Even the way impact assessments are carried out is controversial. Campaigners claim evidence is sometimes twisted to legitimise political decisions, rather than the decisions being based on sober consideration of all the facts.

This is from a UK Parliamentary report "While all legislation must be formally agreed by the Council, the great majority of legislation is agreed without any debate at all at Ministerial level, having been previously negotiated by officials in the Council’s preparatory bodies, working groups and Coreper, working to instructions from their respective Ministers. It has been estimated that most decisions (around 70%) are in practice made before reaching the Council level and are proposed by Coreper for adoption as ‘A’ items. "
  • #317
  • Jul 12, 2016 6:16pm Jul 12, 2016 6:16pm
Quoting NaughtyPip
Quoted from Sa7an: So what exactly has the EU done for Britain - We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view.
This argument has little to do with the EU. You may as well ask where your Ipad was made, where your socks are made or where your TV was made. Manufacturing moves to its best site.

Do you seriously believe that none of this would have happened if the UK was not an EU member?
Gone to a better place
  • #318
  • Jul 12, 2016 6:35pm Jul 12, 2016 6:35pm
What I have seen in the run up to (and after the vote) is a huge swathe of angry people, previously not allowed to state their case, now crawling out of the woodwork who have been allowed to vote with their anger. Their statement is "We want out and we want you out". (Google it)
Gone to a better place
  • #319
  • Jul 12, 2016 6:38pm Jul 12, 2016 6:38pm
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} The reference document states " Drafting EU law Before the Commission proposes new initiatives it assesses the potential economic, social and environmental consequences that they may hav "
Cutting and pasting doesn't flatter your case. It makes you seem a bit dopy, like your avatar.
Gone to a better place
  • #320
  • Jul 13, 2016 8:58am Jul 13, 2016 8:58am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} This is from a UK Parliamentary report "While all legislation must be formally agreed by the Council, the great majority of legislation is agreed without any debate at all at Ministerial level, having been previously negotiated by officials in the Councils preparatory bodies, working groups and Coreper, working to instructions from their respective Ministers. It has been estimated that most decisions (around 70%) are in practice made before reaching the Council level and are proposed by Coreper for adoption as A items. "
These are the unedited as-published CONCLUSIONS this Parliamentary Report*:

62. Regardless of any progress made by the Council in improving the transparency, accountability and efficiency of EU legislative processes, we consider that the (UK) Government could and should take action itself to make more information available to Parliament and to the public. At the European Union level, it could take the lead in making public statements of the reason for its vote more frequently.
63. We accept that Parliament could take a lead in increasing the transparency of negotiations and decisions taken by the Council. That will only succeed if the Government matches its own commitments to support the scrutiny system by providing complete and timely information and scheduling debates when they are still timely.
64. Transparency is not simply a matter of making information available, but of ensuring it is usable. In taking forward our 2013 Scrutiny Reform Report recommendations, we will reflect further on improvements that we might make to our own procedures and to the usability of the information we make available.
65. In particular, we commend for further careful consideration the changes suggested by our witnesses and detailed in Paragraph 60.

Now WHERE is there criticism of the EU process? Where is there anything that underpins your implications?
The criticism is WHOLLY of the UK government who have (within the EU process) all the remedies to address the alleged lack of transparency .

Read the report. Form your own opinion. Its not long.
Here... http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmeuleg/128/128.pdf
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