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BREXIT RULES! The Consequences

  • #241
  • Jul 7, 2016 5:55am Jul 7, 2016 5:55am
Quoting verv
{quote} Thanks. The generational gap is real. I think the ability to move and travel within the EU freely, although a positive, really ranks right at the bottom when making decisions about the EU. Yet that is what many young people immediately think of when asked about the EU - go ask the Irish passport office ha. If a person biggest problem with leaving the EU is having to get a visa to visit continental Europe, then that is what we call 'first world problems'.
This is so true. My son's friends voted Remain because they thought that they would not be able to travel to Europe never mind needing a visa to do so. All University educated I might add.
  • #242
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:03am Jul 7, 2016 6:03am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} This is so true. My son's friends voted Remain because they thought that they would not be able to travel to Europe never mind needing a visa to do so. All University educated I might add.
A university degree is a lot more expensive than common sense, and in a large number of cases, a lot less useful lol.
  • #243
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:10am Jul 7, 2016 6:10am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} This is so true. My son's friends voted Remain because they thought that they would not be able to travel to Europe never mind needing a visa to do so. All University educated I might add.
I can't vouch for your son's friends but I think most young people are p!ssed off because they have now probably lost the right to work in Europe.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #244
  • Edited 6:31am Jul 7, 2016 6:13am | Edited 6:31am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} You regularly criticise the decision made by the electorate, but you fail to analyse the cause of the decision. It wasn't Farage or Gove or indeed Johnson who brought us to this point, it was the EU itself. Please stop blaming those who voted Leave, as they felt that they were left with no choice. You said "And when I see the anxiety and insecurity already being caused by it in the lives and futures of the 1.3mio UK citizens living in the EU, and the 2-3 mio EU citizens lining and working in the UK I make no excuse for my anger." But what...
I respect the points you make.
BUT YES.. I am criticizing the decision.
Im not criticizing the RIGHT to the decision?
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT?

In relation to the the anxiety and insecurity already being caused" to the 52+% of the UK population?
I have the utmost sympathy for them. But not by the remotest stretch of the imagination are they in the situation they are in because of the EU.
They are in that situation because of the incompetence of successive UK governments and incompetent UK politicians.
Are you seriously advising that Brexit will improve these people lot? I mean..seriously?
Yes? OK show me.
Youre like a guy with a flat tyre that thinks that changing the oil will fix it?
Misdiagnosis.
  • #245
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:15am Jul 7, 2016 6:15am
Quoting verv
{quote} A university degree is a lot more expensive than common sense, and in a large number of cases, a lot less useful lol.
There speaks a graduate?
Or not?
  • #246
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:19am Jul 7, 2016 6:19am
Quoting theras2000
{quote} I can't vouch for your son's friends but I think most young people are p!ssed off because they have now probably lost the right to work in Europe.
Yeah.. pre Referendum research advised that 90 of University staff were in favour of Remain.
And 50 % would consider emigrating id Brexit happened.
Got to admit.. you guys really got the smartest and best.. the future leaders of our industry and country convinced.
NOT.
  • #247
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:26am Jul 7, 2016 6:26am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} There speaks a graduate? Or not?
Yes.

Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Yeah.. pre Referendum research advised that 90 of University staff were in favour of Remain. And 50 % would consider emigrating id Brexit happened. Got to admit.. you guys really got the smartest and best.. the future leaders of our industry and country convinced. NOT.
Don't think they were making their decision on the basis of what is good for the country at large.

University staff, in the vast majority, talk their own book and vote in the interest of their own book, a large part of their book is funding from the EU and they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.
  • #248
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:27am Jul 7, 2016 6:27am
Quoting verv
{quote} You have had an interesting life cliffedwards. I don't think of you are a stupid old man. In fact I have read some of your other posts and just last night cited you as an educated 'Remainer'...one of the few. http://www.forexfactory.com/news.php?do=news&id=596324#post9015604 It is wrong for anyone to think the other side is stupid just because they voted one way, it leads to errors of judgement. The attitude of many Remain voters post referendum in trying label every Leave voter as either stupid bigot or old with no future in...
@very I understand from closer reading of your posts that you are involved in empirical science.
I have utmost respect for that background and discipline. I promise to read your posts more carefully going forward..
And trust that you will draft them with similar care.*

*Oh sh*t.. sorry mate.. couldnt resist the dig..
  • #249
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:28am Jul 7, 2016 6:28am
Quoting verv
{quote} Yes. {quote} Don't think they were making their decision on the basis of what is good for the country at large. University staff, in the vast majority, talk their own book and vote in the interest of their own book, a large part of their book is funding from the EU and they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.
Fair comment.
  • #250
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:29am Jul 7, 2016 6:29am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} I respect the points you make. BUT YES.. I am criticizing the decision. Im not criticizing the RIGHT to the decision? HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT? In relation to the the anxiety and insecurity already being caused" to the 52+% of the UK population? I have the utmost sympathy for them. But not the remotest stretch of the imagination are they in the situation they are in because of the EU. They are in that situation because of the incompetence of successive UK governments and incompetent UK politicians. Are you seriously advising...
So let me get this straight. The EU is the innocent party in all of this? It has played no part in the mindset of the UK population or indeed the Eurosceptic citizens of the rest of Europe? It is just a benign and maligned benefactor?

And I am seriously suggesting that they felt that they were left with no other option, because neither the UK government nor the EU were able to demonstrate otherwise, unless you have evidence to the contrary
  • #251
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:35am Jul 7, 2016 6:35am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} You regularly criticise the decision made by the electorate, but you fail to analyse the cause of the decision. It wasn't Farage or Gove or indeed Johnson who brought us to this point, it was the EU itself. Please stop blaming those who voted Leave, as they felt that they were left with no choice. You said "And when I see the anxiety and insecurity already being caused by it in the lives and futures of the 1.3mio UK citizens living in the EU, and the 2-3 mio EU citizens lining and working in the UK I make no excuse for my anger." But what...
I get the impression cliff was living a comfortable life compared with the working class majority in the uk, and being in the eu has been working in his favour.
  • #252
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:36am Jul 7, 2016 6:36am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} @very I understand from closer reading of your posts that you are involved in empirical science. I have utmost respect for that background and discipline. I promise to read your posts more carefully going forward.. And trust that you will draft them with similar care.* *Oh sh*t.. sorry mate.. couldnt resist the dig..
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Fair comment.
Dig away. I have pretty thick skin.

Yes I do and I am University staff, not that it should matter, content is content.

I have soured on this profession, it isn't what people think it is.

It is short term, REF returns decides if you keep your job along with the money you bring in. That provides considerable incentive to 'sex up' and 'talk up' research, as if it is going to be something world changing.

Science used to be about query, I'm not kidding when I say it is all about money now. Science is now about selling a product, your research.

Edit - I'm referring to University research, not industrial research.
  • #253
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:42am Jul 7, 2016 6:42am
Quoting theras2000
{quote} I can't vouch for your son's friends but I think most young people are p!ssed off because they have now probably lost the right to work in Europe.
I don't think so. As you will probably know, most UK school leavers and indeed most post grads don't even have a second language
  • #254
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:49am Jul 7, 2016 6:49am
Quoting theras2000
{quote} I can't vouch for your son's friends but I think most young people are p!ssed off because they have now probably lost the right to work in Europe.
Only the privileged young people care about such things. Most young people just want assurance they will have a job and be able to afford bills.
  • #255
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:54am Jul 7, 2016 6:54am
Quoting NaughtyPip
{quote} Only the privileged young people care about such things. Most young people just want assurance they will have a job and be able to afford bills.
"Most young people just want assurance they will have a job and be able to afford bills" If that is true (which I doubt), it's probably why the voted Remain.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #256
  • Jul 7, 2016 6:56am Jul 7, 2016 6:56am
Quoting NaughtyPip
{quote} I get the impression cliff was living a comfortable life compared with the working class majority in the uk, and being in the eu has been working in his favour.
Maybe, but it is a totally different view here on the ground in the UK. Research and polls have their place, but most of the polls got it wrong regarding the mood of the country, as did the politico
  • #257
  • Edited 7:11am Jul 7, 2016 6:57am | Edited 7:11am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} So let me get this straight. The EU is the innocent party in all of this? It has played no part in the mindset of the UK population or indeed the Eurosceptic citizens of the rest of Europe? It is just a benign and maligned benefactor? And I am seriously suggesting that they felt that they were left with no other option, because neither the UK government nor the EU were able to demonstrate otherwise, unless you have evidence to the contrary
Your familiar with the phrase "sense of entitlement"
Its my impression of our entire EU attitude that is somehow that the UK is "Special"
Thats not how teams work. And working Confederations are about team work.
The UK has no obligations under Schenken. No obligations to the EZ. And a seriously eurosceptical press bias.
In fact we have less obligations than almost any other member state.
We have whinged and whined about our small net positive contribution as the second, now third biggest economy in the EU
to help cohesion with our neighbors while at the same time spending 12B pa on aid to bongo bongo land.
We have never been on board the EU.
( UK Newspaper headline: FOG IN CHANNEL..EUROPE CUT OFF!)
We owe our historical power and influence to the Industrial Revolution, the Slave Trade, and our colonial exploitation.
We have dabbled in wars that have swept back and forth across Europe for centuries, without ever experiencing what it is to be invaded.
We are not on the same page as Europe.
So little suprise in one way that we now face a future outside, and that that situation is regarded by many of the remaining 27 despite their apparent shock and sadness at the Brexit decision.. as actually a bit of a relief.
  • #258
  • Jul 7, 2016 7:00am Jul 7, 2016 7:00am
As a side, I want to thank you all for this interesting thread. No matter which is your side of the debate - I find the differing ideas and arguments very interesting and enlightening. It's even pretty civil - mostly
  • #259
  • Jul 7, 2016 7:00am Jul 7, 2016 7:00am
This is the lowest ever i have seen for gbp..

will see some long from yesterday low
The High Frequency Trader with 10years experience
  • #260
  • Jul 7, 2016 7:14am Jul 7, 2016 7:14am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Your familiar with the phrase "sense of entitlement" Its my impression of our entire EU attitude that is somehow that the UK is "Special" Thats not how teams work. And working Confederations are about team work. The UK has no obligations under Schenken. No obligations to the EZ. And a seriously eurosceptical press bias. In fact we have less obligations than almost any other member state. We have whinged and whined about our small net positive contribution as the second, now third biggest economy in the EU to help cohesion with our neighbors...
I might point out that we never voted to be in the EU. We voted to be in the EEC, a trading bloc. Political integration, EU law making and a erosion of UK sovereignty were never in the deal that the UK voted for in the first place or since. You talk about entitlement, but it is the EU who feel that they are entitled to impose these things with out reference to the UK public.

Surrender of our Sovereignty an Act of Treason under the 1351 Treason Act and a Praemunire, under the 1392 Act of Praemunire, it is Treason under the 1559 Act of Supremacy and the 1688/9 Declaration and Bill of Rights.

It is a Praemunire to allow any laws or regulations not made by the Sovereign in parliament to take effect as law in England. This is illegal under the Acts of Treason 1351, the Act of Praemunire 1392, The Act of Supremacy 1559, and the Declaration and Bill of Rights 1688/9.
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