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The Big secret to trading success

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  • Post #61
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  • Apr 24, 2016 2:55am Apr 24, 2016 2:55am
  •  Troonman
  • | Joined Jan 2014 | Status: Member | 65 Posts
I'm about halfway through this one and looking for the next book!
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  • Post #62
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  • Apr 24, 2016 2:57am Apr 24, 2016 2:57am
  •  Nala66
  • Joined Mar 2016 | Status: Member | 5,507 Posts
I read a book once... It began with 'Once upon a time' :nerd:
 
 
  • Post #63
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  • Apr 24, 2016 3:41am Apr 24, 2016 3:41am
  •  bloodpoodle
  • Joined Dec 2010 | Status: Member | 572 Posts
The big secret is there is no big secret or holy grail..
The only system that will work is one designed by and for yourself.
 
 
  • Post #64
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  • Apr 24, 2016 4:30am Apr 24, 2016 4:30am
  •  Troonman
  • | Joined Jan 2014 | Status: Member | 65 Posts
Quoting Nala66
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I read a book once... It began with 'Once upon a time' :nerd:
Ignored
you must be the very rich and clever Quartile Trader
 
 
  • Post #65
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  • Apr 24, 2016 4:53am Apr 24, 2016 4:53am
  •  shakles
  • | Joined Jan 2016 | Status: Junior Member | 5 Posts
With so much arguments going on cat was never able to discuss his trend following strategy.
 
 
  • Post #66
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  • Apr 24, 2016 6:27am Apr 24, 2016 6:27am
  •  diceman555
  • Joined Jun 2009 | Status: Member | 5,529 Posts
The very word trend is responsible for confusion and misinterpretation ,many loose due to this pre concieved idea of trend.

long term horizon traders can trade succsefully following increased value or decreased value of the given instrument, using sound fundamental knowledge and are extremly profitable.but for the majority of intraday traders need to apply diferent perspectives to determine flows in and out of currencies.we need to determine and measure the market to interpret this.looking at the market for intraday trends needs to be supported as a whole,across the market which happens iregualary ,for the best part values of a currency are traded for everyday purpose ,they trade between ther average price on various t/f,s,this can clearly be determined in the confliction in the overall market.if the market trends intraday the majority of the time it will be in synce and in harmoney across the whole market.

i dont see mant threads here with such perspectives .most descusions are repeated method that appears to fail
 
 
  • Post #67
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  • Apr 24, 2016 7:07am Apr 24, 2016 7:07am
  •  nolimitz
  • | Joined Apr 2015 | Status: Member | 33 Posts
Well, there is not such a thing as a secret. In order to succeed in Forex you would need a lot of patient and hard work. It is impossible to start trades without any losses in the beginning and you have to take that into account. Furthermore, tons of educational books and articles have to be read. In addition a lot practice should be involved. As for the practice I would advice to start with NO Deposit bonuses, as they would allow you to trade with real money. There you can improve your skills and get advanced in time.
This is pure my opinion! I hope that helps
 
 
  • Post #68
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  • Apr 24, 2016 7:28am Apr 24, 2016 7:28am
  •  Nala66
  • Joined Mar 2016 | Status: Member | 5,507 Posts
Quoting Troonman
Disliked
{quote} you must be the very rich and clever Quartile Trader
Ignored
I would be even more so if I wrote books.:nerd: Clever I wouldn't say that, just practical. I learned to trade the hard way by reading books and more books, articles, magazines, bulletins, forums and so forth. Now I look at charts and they tell me the stories I need to know to trade the NOW situation. To tell you the truth I don't think the books helped very much at all.
 
 
  • Post #69
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  • Apr 24, 2016 8:31am Apr 24, 2016 8:31am
  •  Swarog
  • | Joined Mar 2016 | Status: Member | 16 Posts
I find two things as the major drivers to the success .

First is relaxed brain and second is open mind.
Relaxed brain to better dive into the understanding of the matter and open mind for learning new things (totally different from your current convictions).

This sounds a bit strange but in my case ,my whole trading success (which is till now almost 6 years) isn't gained that much from any specific book or analysis.
It is gained from the way of thinking about it.
There is a process in learning,that most people don't do properly.Of course there is not any specific way to do things right in learning but very better understanding of matter comes from some separate cycles.Cycle of reading , cycle of testing (questioning) , cycle of thinking about it separate from screens (or working place).
Be aware (very conscious) that it brain need some time to process informations.

It is absolutely astonishing how much better we understand things when brain and whole body is relaxed.

I think that it is more important the way we do things than anything else.

If I can derive any single valuable adage that is :"Don't run for profit by itself, enjoy the senastion how things work.How beautiful things fit!Money comes later as prize."

I know that the problem for most people is lack of the "free-time" and problems from everyday life.But relax ,because only relaxed you can absorb the quality facts.

Very good thread CAT!

 
 
  • Post #70
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  • Apr 24, 2016 8:35am Apr 24, 2016 8:35am
  •  lemna
  • | Joined Jun 2011 | Status: Member | 158 Posts
Trend following has worked well enough in Forex, provided its done on major / USD pairs, and you enter on pullbacks with fairly tight stops, and forget about breakouts.

Just take an excel of major pairs with weekly data and go long when price is higher than X look back or short vice-versa.

You will find positive results, if you bother to play with excel for an hour or so. Just stick with USD and forget crosses.

As for previous comments about Turtles, its pretty well known that it worked well in the 70s and 80s, but not so much since the 90s.
 
 
  • Post #71
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  • Apr 24, 2016 9:02am Apr 24, 2016 9:02am
  •  Snah
  • | Joined Apr 2016 | Status: Member | 17 Posts
Quoting bloodpoodle
Disliked
The big secret is there is no big secret or holy grail..
Ignored
Everybody knows that,
but the paradox is that still everyone is looking for it.
 
 
  • Post #72
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  • Apr 24, 2016 9:17am Apr 24, 2016 9:17am
  •  seahorse
  • | Joined Oct 2015 | Status: Member | 752 Posts
So, the secret is trend following?
 
 
  • Post #73
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  • Apr 24, 2016 9:45am Apr 24, 2016 9:45am
  •  cat
  • Joined Oct 2010 | Status: Member | 5,441 Posts
As promised, here are a few charts from the index I trade every day, which is the Dax 30 rolling daily. In the New York trading hours, I normally switch over to the Dow. I don't trade anything else, though my favourite forex pair, which I still trade from time to time, is GBP/JPY.

I'm showing the entire month of April, which has been in a strong uptrend. Starting with the Daily, you can see where the 200 zero laf moving average (turquoise/pink), came underneath the price to offer support when the price came back off the 50% fib ( brown horizontal line ) and the 100sma/200ema, which I've marked. I was expecting the price to come back towards the zero lag and I was also expecting it to offer support, which id did. Obviously to get a clean entry, I came right down to the 1 minute TF and lower. Did I know that this would be the decisive move? No, of course not, but I always take my trade set ups regardless of where I think they may go. This one came back off of the 200ema before it turned and punched through it the following day. The important thing to note here, is that with the zero lag MA now beneath, and the the 100sma beneath, I was now very Bullish and confident that the previous downtrend had reversed.

H4 - Now that I have shown the Apr 7/8th Supprt, I can show you the H4 chart. This I think doesn't need too much explanation. Once the 200ema was broken, it was very bullish. It comes back, but now with all the MAs beneath the price, it is just a question of identifying support on the smaller TFs, and going long again. The Weekly 61.8% is the level the Dax is currently floundering around.

H2 - This shows the MACD diversion which added to the Daily zero lag, gave a great buy signal. As always, I'm not looking for just one signal that the tide maybe about to turn, I look for a combination. The price gets a bit stuck between the 200ema and the ZL, but it soon punches through. Now it's bullish all the way on a strong trend. All the best trades throughout this perios are longs, and with the moving averages lined up like this beneath the price, there's no reason to expect it to go anywhere except up. Looking top right at what is happening currently, the price is ranging, having reached the Weekly 61.8%, and it was held up by the ZL on Friday as you can see.

H1 6th-13th - Getting interesting now isn't it? So, you see the 100sma R on the 7th April. We then dropped to form the MACD diversion on the H2 chart, and during the Asian session on the 8th, the price rallied. On that particular morning it was just a question of timing a good long entry either around the Frankfurt or London open. The price could have gone all the way to the 200ema on the 8th, but it got just above the 76.4% fib and dropped. Actually, it may have been a 30 minute MA that offered resistance here as well, I can't remember. By the way, I am a multi- time frame trader, using six monitors all showing different time frames, because you never know just where S&R are going to be, so by watching the most important time frames all the time, it gives me a far better overall insight of where these levels are likely to be.

Still on this TF, you can now see how the ZL being beneath gives clear support. It will usually be very volatile like this when the 200ema is hot, or rather in the period leading up to a major break out. Why? Because many other traders see what is happening but because the BO hasn't happened yet, there will be nervousness - traders jumping in not wanting to miss the move, and of course sellers who still believe that the price will drop further. My zero lag shows me that they will be caught on the wrong side of the trade.

Check out the beautiful support on the 100sma ( orange dash ) on the 12th. Even so, it has one last dip back down before it finally breaks free to rise to the moon.

H1 17-22nd Apr - You'l see here that the price drop beneath the ZL for the first time during the Asian session on the 18th, which was last Monday. However, we were still bullish, and anyone selling on Monday morning would have been unwise. Support came in on the 45m TF ( My TFs go by 1/4s, ie, 15m, 30m, 45m, H1)

Some of you may now be thinking ' ah, but with the ZL now above the price, this isn't so bullish now, perhaps it's going to drop? Not so, the up trend is still firmly in place. Look at the H2 chart, and the zero lag is very much beneath - this overrides the H1 200 zero lag. This is why I use multiple TFs, I get the fullest possible picture.

Looking now up to date, to the 22nd which was Friday, the ZL has got above the price again, and the price was trapped between it and the 100sma all day. So what's different now between the 18th and the 22nd? Look at the H2 chart, and see how much closer the ZL is now to the 20 exponential ( thin red/blue ) Also, on the H1 chart, the distance between the price and the 200ema is much greater so there is now room to drop a bit. Monday might well see the price challenge the H1 ZL, but this is now potentially likely to offer much more R than it did on the 18th because of its position now on the H2 chart.

30m - This shows beautifully why we were range bound on Thursday and Friday on the Dax, with support beneath in the form of the 200ema/sma, and R above in the form of the 200 zero lag. Alsoas you can see, the Central Pivot, the black dashed line, offered the main R of the day.

Dax 10m 18th Apr - Catching last Monday's sudden turn around from the Frankfurt to the London open was tricky, but there was a great pullback to the ZL as you can see, and then another one to the 200ema just before the NY open. It tested the 200ema once, then again, and then it was off. The important thing here is that once these MAs have got beneath, there's no ? about direction, it's BUY BUY BUY!!!

19th - Not too much to explain here. A dip at the London open, but anyone who knows the Dax will know that this is what usually happens, an aggressive move against the trend, to then rally hard. Great time for trading, but you've got to be quick. yes you can get in higher up, but it's always risky jumping in without waiting for a pullback.

20th - not going to say much here, as I've marked the important stuf on the chart. You can see what the price was doing, up to the ZL, hard down I think to either the 61.8% or 76.4%, then up to the ZL again, then a mess before it breaks out powerfully during the New York session following the DOW and S&P. Again, the trend was up, and once the R had been tested and tested again, it remained for Wall St to take it higher.

Last one, the H1 chart for the 21 & 22nd April - Price trapped, but a fantastic day's swing trading on the small time frames, up and down all day. In case anyone thinks otherwise, although trend trading is the best and safest, a choppy day like Friday, with no clear direction, can be very profitable, but you have to go down to the small time frames, which in my case is 10sec, 30 sec, 2m.

There's loads more I could show, entries etc, but I have covered quite a lot of that on my ' Trader's Academy' thread if anyone is interested in taking a look Even though that thread is closed, it's still there to look through, and has stuff not just by me, but some really great contributions from others.

Miow!!
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  • Post #74
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2016 10:18am Apr 24, 2016 10:18am
  •  4xPIPAHOLIC
  • Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Member | 2,576 Posts
Quoting alphaomega
Disliked
Trading with the trend will not put the odds in your favour! If it was so simple.....everyone will do it and we will see a lot more successful people. But we all know that's not the case and its a little bit more complicated. First of all, from all markets forex has the strongest tendency to revert to the mean. (this is a fact, proven mathematically and there are many studies on the subject) This means that classic trend following is pretty much the worst strategy you can apply. Especially if you trade short term or intraday like 99% of the people....
Ignored
This is funny joke right!??! You do not have to be a genius to see where the edge is.... just look witch swings are larger.
Do traders DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TRADE the TREND .. very possible....
I would love to read studies that show that trend trading does not have an edge and counter trend trading has a BIGGER one.
I am not saying that there are not traders that might like to counter trend better... but the edge is in the trend.
Here is something for some to read.

Something form the PDF for those who are bored to read the whole thing:

"5 Conclusions
In this study, we have established the existence of anomalous excess returns
based on trend following strategies across all asset classes and over very long
time scales."

Can't wait to read those other studies....

4x
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Twocenturiesoftrend-following.pdf   452 KB | 1,102 downloads
 
1
  • Post #75
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2016 10:32am Apr 24, 2016 10:32am
  •  Xumm
  • | Joined Feb 2016 | Status: Member | 41 Posts
Quoting alphaomega
Disliked
To think that you can beat the market just by following the trend especialy in fx.......this is naive. Trend following is one of the biggest myths.
Ignored
Trend following is the opposite of naive, it's a smart way to put the odds in your favour, if done properly.
I agree on what you said about mechanical systems being unprofitable in the long run though (my system is discretional).
 
 
  • Post #76
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2016 10:47am Apr 24, 2016 10:47am
  •  Atokys
  • Joined Aug 2015 | Status: Member | 745 Posts
Quoting alphaomega
Disliked
Do you remember the "The turtles" ?? It's a great entertaining story.....but nothing more. Richard Dennis is one of the people who use to preach and propagate the trend following myth. In fact he belongs to some sort of cult-like society/sect along with "legendary" traders like Ed Seykota. These people use to claim that trend following is the holly grail and the best way to trade.
Ignored
Good lord.

Richard Dennis never 'preached' or even publically revealed the way he traded. His trading style and system was kept to himself and his associates until recently when sensational writers and ex-colleagues made it publically known.

Dennis himself traded a part of his portfolio using a discretionary method and also had a part invested with the Turtles who traded the mechanical system. Lucky for him, because the mechanical component paid for all his sucker discretionary plays.

In my opinion, the Turtles' system lacks robustness and is a poor choice to trade (despite being profitable when Dennis used it). Dennis lacked the insight to discern this.

An interview with Dennis revealed that he doesn't believe in the future prospects and profitability of trend following.

I have not seen evidence to suggest that Dennis knows Mr Seykota and is part of some cult together with him.

Oh right... Forex Factory.
 
 
  • Post #77
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2016 11:14am Apr 24, 2016 11:14am
  •  4xPIPAHOLIC
  • Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Member | 2,576 Posts
Quoting Atokys
Disliked
{quote} Good lord. Richard Dennis never 'preached' or even publically revealed the way he traded. His trading style and system was kept to himself and his associates until recently when sensational writers and ex-colleagues made it publically known. Dennis himself traded a part of his portfolio using a discretionary method and also had a part invested with the Turtles who traded the mechanical system. Lucky for him, because the mechanical component paid for all his sucker discretionary plays. In my opinion, the Turtles' system lacks robustness and...
Ignored
Correct and allow me to add please....

While Richard Denis lost everything trading "his" turtle system or a variation of it..... Ed Seykotas net worth is $4.3 billion.
Now Bruce Kovner who was trained by Michel Marcus(one of the biggest trend traders to walk the earth) who was trained by Ed Sekoyta
all trend followers his Caxton Associates fund has generated more than 12 billion in gains since he found it.

4x
 
 
  • Post #78
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2016 11:25am Apr 24, 2016 11:25am
  •  Nala66
  • Joined Mar 2016 | Status: Member | 5,507 Posts
Right on Atokys. It is hard to believe anything written on the Internet without personal proof.

I don't believe 9/11 ever happened because I wasn't there and anyway Donald Trump said it was 7/11 so who can I believe.

Here in the Forex Factory we seek the truth and every single opinion I have seen thus far has had the opposite view chucked at it until an argument ensues.

Really what does it matter which way produces the more pips or points these are only the chart increments it is what we do with them that counts as far as trading is concerned. One can develop a robust trading method in either direction, winning some and losing some, after all if we all traded in the same direction we wouldn't have a market to trade in.

There are always going to be superstars in this business and will probably keep their methods close to their chest leaving others to simply speculate on what they are doing, their money making practices probably comes via many other investments not even associated with trading. The point is who cares about these superstars they certainly are not interested in me.

I am ever the cynic being the only ant on the planet with the intelligence to know I am going to be stomped on if I run with the pack.
 
 
  • Post #79
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  • Apr 24, 2016 11:26am Apr 24, 2016 11:26am
  •  Atokys
  • Joined Aug 2015 | Status: Member | 745 Posts
Quoting 4xPIPAHOLIC
Disliked
Correct and allow me to add please.... While Richard Denis lost everything trading "his" turtle system or a variation of it..... Ed Seykotas net worth is $4.3 billion.
Ignored
Dennis reports that he lost 10% of the money he made from trading in the turbulent conclusion of his career. The accounts he was managing also experienced major losses during this time. Despite this they were still profitable to the tune of 25% annual compounded returns.

I don't think Ed Seykota has revealed his net worth publically. I would like to see your source on that.
 
 
  • Post #80
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2016 11:29am Apr 24, 2016 11:29am
  •  4xPIPAHOLIC
  • Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Member | 2,576 Posts
Quoting Atokys
Disliked
{quote} Dennis reports that he lost 10% of the money he made from trading in the turbulent conclusion of his career. The accounts he was managing also experienced major losses during this time. Despite this they were still profitable to the tune of 25% annual compounded returns. I don't think Ed Seykota has revealed his net worth publically. I would like to see your source on that.
Ignored
https://www.trendfollowing.com/2012/...appears-at-85/
 
 
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