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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #18,601
  • Mar 24, 2016 3:54pm Mar 24, 2016 3:54pm
Quoting SteeP7
{quote} Nice man im sure you more than made up for the losses with that trade. Ive been getting beat up all week. So im clearing up my trading plan i've been trading a bit wreckless and need a Precise and clear plan on entry and trade management.
Thanks! I'm sure you'll get it all worked out. I definitely took a few trades that I shouldn't have today. I'm trying to learn to be more patient once I am in a trade and more patient waiting for them to set up. Always fighting them damn emotions!

Anyways... Happy holidays everyone. Cheers!
  • #18,602
  • Mar 25, 2016 7:45am Mar 25, 2016 7:45am
Hey everyone! I'm still in the hospital, but making progress. (I do have a chest tube, Mr. Pip. It's not super pleasant, but necessary. My lung was 40-50% collapsed when I came in, it's around 5-10% now). I managed to spot this trade on the USDJPY 162tick around 9pm last night. A good quick 2:1. It ended up going further, but I decided to cut it out at 2:1. My dad was here and I was showing him the process and the setups. He's impressed with the system. I got in way late, compared to the fib retracement rotation. But when it hit the previous days close and kept going, I decided it was worth the risk.

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Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent - JMK
  • #18,603
  • Mar 25, 2016 8:09am Mar 25, 2016 8:09am
Quoting Timwelch
Hey everyone! I'm still in the hospital, but making progress. (I do have a chest tube, Mr. Pip. It's not super pleasant, but necessary. My lung was 40-50% collapsed when I came in, it's around 5-10% now). I managed to spot this trade on the USDJPY 162tick around 9pm last night. A good quick 2:1. It ended up going further, but I decided to cut it out at 2:1. My dad was here and I was showing him the process and the setups. He's impressed with the system. I got in way late, compared to the fib retracement rotation. But when it hit the previous days...
Lol, in the hospital bankin money on the hospital wifi. What other job allows you to do that? Haha.

Were you doing anything strenuous at the time of the collapse or were you just sitting there? Having a lung collapse sounds heinous.

Regardless, glad to hear you're doing better.
  • #18,604
  • Mar 25, 2016 8:22am Mar 25, 2016 8:22am
Quoting jmezz
Tried a couple from the long side. Everyone is extremely short from the overnight session and I'm letting this impact my trade decisions as I think there could be a short squeeze. Hard to let go of this thought today and focus on expectations only. Also I think I may be too aggressive with stops, but I'm definitely keeping my losses low this way. I'll need to have a look and perhaps try giving them more room to see if it's more beneficial for me. {image}
Well we got the squeeze, did anyone get a piece of this??
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  • #18,605
  • Mar 25, 2016 8:30am Mar 25, 2016 8:30am
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} Hi, the long at YM at 50 fib was a bit early. I did it, because I had a pending order and I protected immediatly my entry just in case that there will be an expectation failure and price tries to go up. I had also a pending order in line with my deep retracement expectation at 61.8 Fib (not 78.6), because of the structure left. I get bad results, if I wait for candle information which tends to give me opposite information.
Yeah my reasoning for entry was that there was nice rotation off that structure zone, however now comparing this new screenshot to the original one I posted, the price candles look different. I don't know why ninjatrader does that but I've noticed it on the tick charts and also with the executions that get plotted on the chart.

On that trade I decided to back off being so aggressive on the stops so I probably could have kept that to a much smaller loss had I been managing it like I was prior.

Just trying to find that happy medium

Thank you for your comments!
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  • #18,606
  • Mar 25, 2016 12:12pm Mar 25, 2016 12:12pm
I was playing soccer... And, someone has to pay the hospital bills, might as well be forex. ;-)

Quoting jmezz
{quote} Lol, in the hospital bankin money on the hospital wifi. What other job allows you to do that? Haha. Were you doing anything strenuous at the time of the collapse or were you just sitting there? Having a lung collapse sounds heinous. Regardless, glad to hear you're doing better.
Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent - JMK
  • #18,607
  • Mar 25, 2016 1:17pm Mar 25, 2016 1:17pm
Quoting jmezz
{quote} Well we got the squeeze, did anyone get a piece of this?? {image}
I saw the possibility to go long, but my familly wanted to go to a restaurant. Hence, I did not enter the trade.
It would have been nice to enter and protect the entry and let it go, but ok afterwards we know always what would have been nice to do.
  • #18,608
  • Mar 25, 2016 1:20pm Mar 25, 2016 1:20pm
Quoting Timwelch
Hey everyone! I'm still in the hospital, but making progress. (I do have a chest tube, Mr. Pip. It's not super pleasant, but necessary. My lung was 40-50% collapsed when I came in, it's around 5-10% now). I managed to spot this trade on the USDJPY 162tick around 9pm last night. A good quick 2:1. It ended up going further, but I decided to cut it out at 2:1. My dad was here and I was showing him the process and the setups. He's impressed with the system. I got in way late, compared to the fib retracement rotation. But when it hit the previous days...
Amazing what you have you head free to trade. I wish you good recovery. Congrats to your trade.
  • #18,609
  • Mar 25, 2016 1:30pm Mar 25, 2016 1:30pm
Quoting jmezz
{quote} Yeah my reasoning for entry was that there was nice rotation off that structure zone, however now comparing this new screenshot to the original one I posted, the price candles look different. I don't know why ninjatrader does that but I've noticed it on the tick charts and also with the executions that get plotted on the chart. On that trade I decided to back off being so aggressive on the stops so I probably could have kept that to a much smaller loss had I been managing it like I was prior. Just trying to find that happy medium Thank...
Is there a special reason why you use 144 tickchart. Why not 162, 233,...

Sorry to ask the stupid question, but I heard here for the first time about tickcharts.
I currently try 233 tick on MT4. I do not know if this emulated chart is accurate (wonderfull MT4 is not able to do it without added tool).
At least on Thursday it worked well on DOW.
Future will tell.
  • #18,610
  • Mar 25, 2016 2:19pm Mar 25, 2016 2:19pm
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} Is there a special reason why you use 144 tickchart. Why not 162, 233,... Sorry to ask the stupid question, but I heard here for the first time about tickcharts. I currently try 233 tick on MT4. I do not know if this emulated chart is accurate (wonderfull MT4 is not able to do it without added tool). At least on Thursday it worked well on DOW. Future will tell.
Incidentally, I have the same question.
Damian, why do we use 233 ticks, or 162, 144 and not 50, 100, 150, 250 and so on...simple and round numbers? Just curious.
  • #18,611
  • Edited 3:18pm Mar 25, 2016 3:04pm | Edited 3:18pm
Quoting ujku80
{quote} Incidentally, I have the same question. Damian, why do we use 233 ticks, or 162, 144 and not 50, 100, 150, 250 and so on...simple and round numbers? Just curious.
55+89=144
89+144=233
144+233= 377
and so on

Fibonacci numbers in tickbars
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #18,612
  • Mar 25, 2016 3:17pm Mar 25, 2016 3:17pm
Earleon got it, they're fib numbers.

I started off on 233 here but moved down to 144 to experiment with tighter stops.
  • #18,613
  • Mar 25, 2016 3:22pm Mar 25, 2016 3:22pm
Hehe... I use 162 tick. It's not a fib number, but it is the golden ratio (1.618, or 0.618 as the inverse golden ratio), and if you divide any fib number with the next (233/144 or 377/233), you'll see the golden ratio. So I use the golden ratio as my tick, and I use fibonacci's as Mr. Pip's method explains. It makes sense to me to use the golden ratio as my tick and not a fibonacci derived number, because you use fibonacci (projection / retracement) to derive the golden means (tick), not the fibonacci (proj / retracement) to derive the fibonacci (tick)! :-)

* But it's all the same in the end. It all leads you to the same place! It just leads you in different timings / lengths of candles. The system Mr. Pip teaches works on ANY candle, whether it's 5M, 15M, 4H, 89tick, 233tick, etc... Use what you are comfortable with using!

Quoting Earleone
{quote} 55+89=144 89+144=233 144+233= 377 and so on Fibonacci numbers in tickbars 162 I am not sure where is coming from.
Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent - JMK
  • #18,614
  • Mar 25, 2016 3:26pm Mar 25, 2016 3:26pm
Quoting Timwelch
Hehe... I use 162 tick. It's not a fib number, but it is the golden ratio (1.618, or 0.618 as the inverse golden ratio), and if you divide any fib number with the next (233/144 or 377/233), you'll see the golden ratio. So I use the golden ratio as my tick, and I use fibonacci's as Mr. Pip's method explains. It makes sense to me to use the golden ratio as my tick and not a fibonacci derived number, because you use fibonacci (projection / retracement) to derive the golden means (tick), not the fibonacci (proj / retracement) to derive the fibonacci...
Interesting, never thought to try the 162. Adding it to the study list for this weekend.
  • #18,615
  • Mar 25, 2016 3:37pm Mar 25, 2016 3:37pm
Quoting Timwelch
Hehe... I use 162 tick. It's not a fib number, but it is the golden ratio (1.618, or 0.618 as the inverse golden ratio), and if you divide any fib number with the next (233/144 or 377/233), you'll see the golden ratio. So I use the golden ratio as my tick, and I use fibonacci's as Mr. Pip's method explains. It makes sense to me to use the golden ratio as my tick and not a fibonacci derived number, because you use fibonacci (projection / retracement) to derive the golden means (tick), not the fibonacci (proj / retracement) to derive the fibonacci...
Not sure about that. It can be like with fibonacci retracements and extensions. All traders see the same levels and it becomes self fulfilling prophecy at the levels. Maybe the same goes for candles too .
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #18,616
  • Mar 25, 2016 3:47pm Mar 25, 2016 3:47pm
Quoting jmezz
{quote} Yeah my reasoning for entry was that there was nice rotation off that structure zone, however now comparing this new screenshot to the original one I posted, the price candles look different. I don't know why ninjatrader does that but I've noticed it on the tick charts and also with the executions that get plotted on the chart. On that trade I decided to back off being so aggressive on the stops so I probably could have kept that to a much smaller loss had I been managing it like I was prior. Just trying to find that happy medium Thank...
This was one reason I moved away from tick charts for now. My internet was not the best and I think it misses some ticks, so if I was to reload my chart there would be a lot more bars than before. Not sure if this is the issue but felt it was too inconsistent to trade.
  • #18,617
  • Mar 25, 2016 4:07pm Mar 25, 2016 4:07pm
Quoting Earleone
{quote} 55+89=144 89+144=233 144+233= 377 and so on Fibonacci numbers in tickbars
Thanks. Funy i didnt think about it. 😀
  • #18,618
  • Mar 25, 2016 4:08pm Mar 25, 2016 4:08pm
Quoting PipTrendz
{quote} This was one reason I moved away from tick charts for now. My internet was not the best and I think it misses some ticks, so if I was to reload my chart there would be a lot more bars than before. Not sure if this is the issue but felt it was too inconsistent to trade.
There's a reason for it apparently. I found this from Ninjatrader forums - http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=76219

So essentially the second you reload your chart or restart Ninjatrader your tick bars are going to be different than they were when you initially saw them as you were trading. This makes going back and studying your trades almost worthless as you could have seen a strong buy bar originally but when you go back to look it could be a completely different bar.

On Monday I'm going to keep an eye on the screenshots that I post throughout the day and I will compare them with price action at the end of the trading day. ES and YM are the only 2 charts I look at on NT, I don't cycle through symbols so the bars should essentially remain the same.

This looks to be another benefit of recording your trading session for you to review.
  • #18,619
  • Mar 25, 2016 4:19pm Mar 25, 2016 4:19pm
Quoting jmezz
{quote} There's a reason for it apparently. I found this from Ninjatrader forums - http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=76219 .
This is interesting. It means that we all see different bars on our Ninjatraders even if we use the same tick size. So where I have an wick an other user can have a full candle an get an NSH while I get an LH. hmm.
Trading in the shadow of SM
  • #18,620
  • Edited 5:15pm Mar 25, 2016 4:50pm | Edited 5:15pm
Quoting jmezz
{quote} There's a reason for it apparently. I found this from Ninjatrader forums - http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=76219 So essentially the second you reload your chart or restart Ninjatrader your tick bars are going to be different than they were when you initially saw them as you were trading. This makes going back and studying your trades almost worthless as you could have seen a strong buy bar originally but when you go back to look it could be a completely different bar. On Monday I'm going to keep an eye on...
Yeah I kind of knew/guessed this anyway, makes sense. When not time based most charts will look slightly different in the charts openings.

The thing for me was there were a LOT of missed ticks (therefore missing bars also). I am sure I posted some evidence once, let me see if I can find it.

Edit: here is where I mention the issue with a screen shot http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=8026380#post8026380
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