Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade | Page 916 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

Learning to trade with harmonics 11 replies

Time for Change - Pivots & Harmonics to freedom 67 replies

180 reasons to trade Harmonics and Patterns 13 replies

Group Trading based on Elliott wave and Harmonics 0 replies

Attachments: Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade
Exit Attachments

Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #18,301
  • Mar 17, 2016 1:05pm Mar 17, 2016 1:05pm
here is my first and only trade of the day. Missed most of the moves as was a bit busy but happy to get this one in for 41 pips.

Entry in line with OF, retraced to the 38.2 and then after a bullish candle I entered. Moved my TP up with price and decided to exit for about 41 pips. Could have had more but aware of the RN (although this doesn't impact too much on the Dow) and didn't want to give any pips back. The 1:1 of the previous move would have netted anothe 20 pips or so but still happy with the trade.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: image.png Size: 209 KB
  • #18,302
  • Mar 17, 2016 1:07pm Mar 17, 2016 1:07pm
Very good work Mr Pips. I'm following and learning this thread
  • #18,303
  • Mar 17, 2016 3:10pm Mar 17, 2016 3:10pm
Quoting Timwelch
Where did you get your news indicator? It looks pretty awesome. :-) {quote}
tim that news indicator comes from the sonic r system thread,,,but you dont need indicators,,,just use the forex factory calender here and place coloured vertical lines on your chart as a reminder
  • #18,304
  • Mar 17, 2016 3:35pm Mar 17, 2016 3:35pm
Yeah, I use the calendar here, but it would be nice to have something like that so that I don't have to refresh another tab in my browser. :-) lol

** Ben hooked me up. All I wanted was the little panel with the headlines in it. I think it's nifty. Not looking to add any indicators to the chart, just like to see upcoming headlines without having to switch between too many windows. :-)


Quoting devontrader
{quote} tim that news indicator comes from the sonic r system thread,,,but you dont need indicators,,,just use the forex factory calender here and place coloured vertical lines on your chart as a reminder
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screen Shot 2016-03-17 at 4.43.38 PM.png Size: 27 KB
Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent - JMK
  • #18,305
  • Mar 17, 2016 3:52pm Mar 17, 2016 3:52pm
Quoting jmezz
First 2 futures papertrades went pretty well. Took 61.8 / structure sells on ES and YM, tightened stops on both when price was nearing the opposite 50fib retrace. {image} {image}
Hey jmezz, nice trades.

One thing that I wonder about when I see people post 2 charts like this is that he seem to be the same (almost). So they have the same/similar things influencing the markets, meaning that you are effectively "doubling down" on your trade. If one wins, then likely both will, however if one lose then likely both will, meaning your DD could be double.

Not sure if I am missing it as to why people do this, or am I pretty correct with the above?
  • #18,306
  • Mar 17, 2016 4:57pm Mar 17, 2016 4:57pm
Quoting PipTrendz
{quote} Hey jmezz, nice trades. One thing that I wonder about when I see people post 2 charts like this is that he seem to be the same (almost). So they have the same/similar things influencing the markets, meaning that you are effectively "doubling down" on your trade. If one wins, then likely both will, however if one lose then likely both will, meaning your DD could be double. Not sure if I am missing it as to why people do this, or am I pretty correct with the above?
Is there much correlation between S&P and Dow?
  • #18,307
  • Mar 17, 2016 5:04pm Mar 17, 2016 5:04pm
Quoting rolandW
{quote} Is there much correlation between S&P and Dow?
Not sure tbh, do you trade those? I only trade the Dow now, more than enough opportunities to trade for me.

I just thought it when I used to trade the EU and the cable. They were very similar a lot of the time but not always, so if I did trade both then most of the time they were both winners or losers, apart from the odd time my SL/TP was hit before a reversal.

I only double traded a few times as I noticed it was kinda like doubling your lot size on one, plus managing 2 simultaneous trades was, imo, not a great idea.
  • #18,308
  • Mar 17, 2016 5:41pm Mar 17, 2016 5:41pm
Quoting PipTrendz
{quote} Hey jmezz, nice trades. One thing that I wonder about when I see people post 2 charts like this is that he seem to be the same (almost). So they have the same/similar things influencing the markets, meaning that you are effectively "doubling down" on your trade. If one wins, then likely both will, however if one lose then likely both will, meaning your DD could be double. Not sure if I am missing it as to why people do this, or am I pretty correct with the above?
I think some people would make 2 similar plays like this just because they see the patterns forming and can't find a reason not to take them. What happens after you enter a trade is completely out of your control so I think there are those traders that take the entries then gauge how the positions do once they get going. It's no strange sight to see one index lag or outperform the others so perhaps that's a reason why some take trades this way.

However for me, I did it just because I want the practice and I want to gauge how futures act. This is my first time trying to trade them (am using demo acct not real).
  • #18,309
  • Mar 17, 2016 5:49pm Mar 17, 2016 5:49pm
Quoting crixus
{quote} Such momentum burst can mean that price went too far too quick but in your example the number of bars that formed the retracement is made of many bars . The burst contains 4 bars while the retracement contains 14 bars. The only conlusion is that it is tough for the bears to bring price down. They (the bears) face some resistance , it is not that easy for them. Given price is making HH HL i would look at it as bullish neutral. I'd wait for more information before taking a decision. In your example price makes a W formation after the retracement,...
This is a great response, thank you!
  • #18,310
  • Mar 17, 2016 6:26pm Mar 17, 2016 6:26pm
Quoting SteeP7
{quote} not sure if this helps but this is what i see {image}
I guess my question is why was your bias bullish at the time of your entry? We just had that strong bear move down which was a NSL, making the swing high of that large leg (17316) the point that would have to be broken to change the long term order flow back to bullish.

I went short because I thought I was following the long term order flow. Clearly your bias was correct today (good job and nice trade ).

I am struggling with determining the correct bias and which swings to follow so was looking to see what made you go long so that way I could study and see where I went wrong.
  • #18,311
  • Mar 17, 2016 7:45pm Mar 17, 2016 7:45pm
Quoting SteeP7
looks like The day will end at +27 ticks for me. Couldn't find anywhere to get back in long. Mr. Pip would love to see your trades if you could provide them and see if you were able to get in on anything else. The retracements today were too shallow for me to find anything else to jump into. Anyways thank you for all your help.
Sorry I did not have an opportunity to trade today. I hope to be able to tomorrow.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #18,312
  • Mar 18, 2016 5:35am Mar 18, 2016 5:35am
Dear all,

maybe somebody can give me a hint.

The chart is what I traded today. After the NSL and expectation failure ("1"), I was looking to get long ("2").
Here again (happens to me very often), if I wait for "candle information", it gives me a very bad entry since the candle is huge. If I enter in between (not yet closed) it happens also often that the candles looks e.g. bullish until 3 sec before end of candle time formation and then falls to a wick (no body) and price can also go down.

My second entry was in the area of thick box for short.

Moreover, by looking the "candle information" in the area "3", it could invite to enter short e.g. at the bearish candle ("3"). I did not, because I did not want to trade against my "longer" term expectation (70% versus 30% probability) expressed by the main swing.

All trades went in profit, but it was painful (took long and price remained too long against me).

Is the candle information less good on a M1 chart? (compared to the tick chart)

Is there a possibility to get a tick chart on MT4?

Thank in advance for your input
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: all.jpg Size: 154 KB
  • #18,313
  • Mar 18, 2016 5:58am Mar 18, 2016 5:58am
Quoting evocpr19
Dear all, maybe somebody can give me a hint. The chart is what I traded today. After the NSL and expectation failure ("1"), I was looking to get long ("2"). Here again (happens to me very often), if I wait for "candle information", it gives me a very bad entry since the candle is huge. If I enter in between (not yet closed) it happens also often that the candles looks e.g. bullish until 3 sec before end of candle time formation and then falls to a wick (no body) and price can also go down. My second entry was in the area of thick box for short....
I think that the order flow is as valid on 1 chart as it is on any other.

The benefit of the tick chart is you can see the candles formed by order, and not dictated by time, so ultimately there will always be 233 orders in the 233 tick chart, but that could be formed over 1 minute or 1 day depending...

The issue with the 1 minute is the lack of time to make decisions, if you are 10 seconds late in getting your order filled, price could have moved substantially.. like wise, the 1 min could be filled by 1 order or 1 million, you have no way of knowing... so the basis of information you are deriving your decisions at are less than any other chart....

Personally, I have moved to the 4h, so I can properly evaluate what is going on... the 1 min, and 5 min just don't give me that level of time to decide... also you are pretty much guaranteed to have a decent amount of orders in there to build up some decent information!

Does that make sense?

With regards to the entries, and long candles... Regardless of what time frame you are on, you can get exactly the same scenario... in these instances, if the R;R is not there, then you simply don't take them, or you manage them very aggressively. This is half the game when you have the opportunity to entre on the Best information, but the circumstances are not quite right.... you should pass... the same way as if everything stacks up, but you are close to S/R... why take the risk?
  • #18,314
  • Mar 18, 2016 7:13am Mar 18, 2016 7:13am
Quoting evocpr19
Dear all, maybe somebody can give me a hint. The chart is what I traded today. After the NSL and expectation failure ("1"), I was looking to get long ("2"). Here again (happens to me very often), if I wait for "candle information", it gives me a very bad entry since the candle is huge. If I enter in between (not yet closed) it happens also often that the candles looks e.g. bullish until 3 sec before end of candle time formation and then falls to a wick (no body) and price can also go down. My second entry was in the area of thick box for short....
Hello, it's not that the information on the 1 M is any less valuable. Sure chick candles in my opinion are way more powerful as they are a true read on price action since they are based on transaction but what you should keep in mind is that, on the 1M you are really trading the immediate order flow vs the longer term. This will provide you with a higher frequency of trading which brings in lots of everything else wins, losses, ranges and everything else. Nothing changes and the expectancy is the same. Your profits need to be realistic to the time frame you are trading.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #18,315
  • Mar 18, 2016 7:48am Mar 18, 2016 7:48am
Quoting rolandW
{quote} I think that the order flow is as valid on 1 chart as it is on any other. The benefit of the tick chart is you can see the candles formed by order, and not dictated by time, so ultimately there will always be 233 orders in the 233 tick chart, but that could be formed over 1 minute or 1 day depending... The issue with the 1 minute is the lack of time to make decisions, if you are 10 seconds late in getting your order filled, price could have moved substantially.. like wise, the 1 min could be filled by 1 order or 1 million, you have no way...
Thank you a lot Roland.

When you trade in 4h, how do you manage for example an expectation change since you have to wait maybe 1.5 days to get to the long/short entry?
and if you place lets say on a long your SL below 78.6 fib. Your potential loss is huge (at least when you enter a continuation trade at 38.6 Fib; ok potential profit is also high).
You might be right what concerns the quality of information that you get from 4h TF, but the time spend on a single trade is huge.
  • #18,316
  • Mar 18, 2016 7:56am Mar 18, 2016 7:56am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} Hello, it's not that the information on the 1 M is any less valuable. Sure chick candles in my opinion are way more powerful as they are a true read on price action since they are based on transaction but what you should keep in mind is that, on the 1M you are really trading the immediate order flow vs the longer term. This will provide you with a higher frequency of trading which brings in lots of everything else wins, losses, ranges and everything else. Nothing changes and the expectancy is the same. Your profits need to be realistic to...
Thank you Damian.

Your teaching (expectation,....) bewared me to close the trade once it ran against me. I was confident (praying) to be in 70% case.
  • #18,317
  • Mar 18, 2016 8:52am Mar 18, 2016 8:52am
First trade of the day
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 06-16 (233 Tick) 3_18_2016.jpg Size: 140 KB
  • #18,318
  • Mar 18, 2016 8:59am Mar 18, 2016 8:59am
Mr Pip-

I had the main swing defined with the white trendline. Price made a NSH (yellow line) then pulled back a bit, so now does the yellow line become my new main swing? And below the blue swing low would change the short term order flow to bearish, while below the white swing low would change long term flow to bearish right?

Now that price made a NSH at the yellow, would I extend the white trend line up to match it? And eventually extend it up to the swing high that is currently in process ~17470?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 76 KB
  • #18,319
  • Mar 18, 2016 9:10am Mar 18, 2016 9:10am
Quoting evocpr19
...Is there a possibility to get a tick chart on MT4?
I use both platforms Ninjatrader and MT4 and yes there is a way to display tick chart interval on MT4.

I bought this package collection a while ago and it works perfectly:

There is a free trial if you want to test them.
http://ovo.cz/products/offline-charts-for-mt4/omnia-charts-collection/

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM_tickChart.jpg Size: 134 KB
  • #18,320
  • Mar 18, 2016 9:13am Mar 18, 2016 9:13am
Got taken out i trailed too tightly
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 06-16 (233 Tick) 3_18_20161.jpg Size: 150 KB
3 traders viewing now