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How banks push price against you?

  • #81
  • Jan 16, 2014 1:29am Jan 16, 2014 1:29am
Quoting attila
looks like the casino is rigged.. maybe the thin foil hats were right after all... http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A0E0JH20140115

The above link should be of interest. I'm not surprised and the stakes are so high I'm sure it has always been the same and always will...
Gone to a better place
  • #82
  • Jan 16, 2014 2:29am Jan 16, 2014 2:29am
Quoting smikester
{quote} The above link should be of interest. I'm not surprised and the stakes are so high I'm sure it has always been the same and always will...
Gentlemen, does someone actually looks closely into such investigation articles to figure-out the nature of the rig-up?! Most of the time is like before-weekend libors or interbank swap rates rigged up for like 0.000005% (they matters for a billion dollars turn-overs, ok). But it is not like a trader places his SL at 10 pips on the current price with his over-dued, overly-stretched and overly-leveraged account and get hurt. In that term - most retailers can't even feel the manipulation of the market- they just blow their accounts with their own actions.
  • #83
  • Jan 17, 2014 11:26pm Jan 17, 2014 11:26pm
Quoting srmfx
The banks have all the info about the order flows.The only thing bank traders care are their bonuses. They use the info about the orders not to do harm to the other traders, but just to make money. Stop gunning (hunting) is done for two main reasons: to make quick bucks or to find liquidity. Thta's in general.
Absolutely!
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #84
  • Jan 18, 2014 1:29am Jan 18, 2014 1:29am
Don't worry the big guys lose trading as well

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9AK01C20131121

Goldman Sachs lost 1.3 billion in the 3rd Quarter of 2013, so just a few months ago. Maybe someone on FF ran their stops
  • #85
  • Jan 18, 2014 1:38am Jan 18, 2014 1:38am
Quoting Sherpa
Don't worry the big guys lose trading as well http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9AK01C20131121 Goldman Sachs lost 1.3 billion in the 3rd Quarter of 2013, so just a few months ago. Maybe someone on FF ran their stops
The problem most people have is they think bank traders have some immense market power or some extraordinary analysis skills, and are necessarily smarter than every retailer out there. Wrong! :-)
  • #86
  • Jan 18, 2014 2:19am Jan 18, 2014 2:19am
Your broker doesnt care about your mini or micro lot stops. Traders will destroy their accounts all by themselves given enough time.
  • #87
  • Jan 20, 2014 4:59pm Jan 20, 2014 4:59pm
Quoting michaelpelly
{quote} The problem most people have is they think bank traders have some immense market power or some extraordinary analysis skills, and are necessarily smarter than every retailer out there. Wrong! :-)
You are correct. Listen to what this former Goldman Sachs trader has to say about how much training he got before they handed him $10 mill and told him to trade it.


Inserted Video
  • #88
  • Jan 21, 2014 1:09am Jan 21, 2014 1:09am
Quoting michaelpelly
{quote} The problem most people have is they think bank traders have some immense market power or some extraordinary analysis skills, and are necessarily smarter than every retailer out there. Wrong! :-)
In fact they are smarter than 99% of forex retail traders, that's why they are chosen to work there. That is in general, of course, there are some exceptions in both parties
  • #89
  • Jan 26, 2014 6:32pm Jan 26, 2014 6:32pm
I love this thread. I used to think that there was no way to make money trading forex. I would loose so many trades. Even what I thought were the perfect trades would get stopped out by a margin of only a few pips. How could this happen over and over if there aren't any stop hunters? This is where real trading comes in. It's more of a chess game to gain a position in the direction you think price will go. You need to think a few steps ahead. I for one have come to LOVE market manipulations and stop hunting. It has given me some of my most profitable trades ever. Look at it this way, you can enter a trade during a stop run so what's wrong with stop hunting? Have you ever noticed how the market screams towards a huge support/resistances level only to spike through the level by 15 pips or whatever, then turns around and moves 100s of pips in the other direction? Chess game...
  • #90
  • Jan 26, 2014 8:26pm Jan 26, 2014 8:26pm
I have entirely different hypothesis on how the price moves.

We all would agree I think about the following facts.

1. Liquidity providers are providing liquidity to make money.

2. They offer Bid and Ask. They do not initiate any trades.

3. Every time a trader buys at Ask price, liquidity providers has an outstanding sell now. Same way when a trader sells at Bid, liquidity provider has an outstanding buy.

How can they make money ? They are constantly evaluating their net position and the net price. If let us say they have 100 lots bought at 1.0000, they will offer to sell at 1.0001 and the Bid will be set based on the spread. If more traders come in and sell more, liquidity providers have now more lots on hand. So they will once again recalculate their cost and will offer to sell at higher price.

If you were a liquidity provider wouldn't you do the same thing? Basically, price is moved by the traders and not the liquidity providers. They simply offer Bid and Ask where they make money on their position. Sometimes this will involve sitting on a very large net position but they are capable of sitting on it until they can reduce the position at position. This is exactly why price seems to move against the traders. Traders have small pockets so their stops can be hit but liquidity providers are never forced to get out of their position until they make money.
  • #91
  • Dec 20, 2014 6:15am Dec 20, 2014 6:15am
Well, i agree with yuri and have also some information to add.

First i would like to say that the numbers of trolls here denying the obvious things that yuri is saying is amazing. Why you put so much effort on denying something instead of trying to realize he might actually be saying the truth?

First i would like to mention the big players here in order, and the reason why.

1 Central Banks. ECB FED BOJ. they have an account of 100 trilions of their own currency, you know why? Because they can create money trought bonds and things like QE. Creating a bond is creating a money with a interest rate. QE is just buying back that bond with money out of nowhere. QE will raise inflation bonds wont. Want a proof? Take a look at the american public debt and MN chart of eur usd. All the dolar drops are actually money beeing created by bonds. USA has 17 trilion dolars public debt most of it created after the popularization of forex market.
IF they have an agreement for example, between FED and ECB they shall create currency for example, ECB creates 3 trilion euros euro will drop from 1.50 to 1.20 then FED create 4 trillion dollars eurusd will raise back into 1.50 levels( american public debt shall raise by the same ammount);
Why they dont do it simultaneously so the chart doesnt actually move. Thats the big secret.
Plus central banks have also huge reserves, except for the FED at least officially cos dollar is simply worlds main reserve currency.

2 Big forex banks
Citi Credit Deutsche these guys plays with bilions but never with trilions, i just watched an interview with a possible ex worker trader at those banks, what he basically said is that those banks are scalping around with 500 milion dolars orders. well give me a break if i dont beleive it. I think he actually never worked there.
Would you put a 500 milion dolars order with a 100 pips stop loss?
No you would rather play with much less money and much bigger long term.
These guys fight against the central banks. But they can never comand the market. just take a look at the full value of those banks, all of them together isnt powerful as a FED.

3 Brokers hedge funds big investors and so.
These ones are a mix between big banks and small investors.

4 Retail.
We are still a growing mass, but still very small part of the market. The reason we are created, that the bank system allowed us to come in is to counter balance their orders, or helping them fighting the central banks.

For example, eurusd droped from 1.60 to 1.20 of course most of all those big players are buying, and almost none of them wants to sell.
Central banks have tools who knows ecxacly where the profit is, they dont need info from brokers, they have it directly from forex system, dont forget it is a software with acess to important data, these data are only allowed to central banks, maybe also for big banks, nobody else.

So you might be right yuri, the market wich for me is 90% controled by central banks, moves only towards the direction of profit, thats the reason we still see such huge volatility in forex market. But it doesnt mean it always go against retail traders, for example, a central bank just realised 60% of the cash is on sell they will pump it up, and if retail traders are buying they will get the profit not the big banks.
  • #92
  • Mar 16, 2016 2:53pm Mar 16, 2016 2:53pm
Quoting 60minuteman
nice new place to pile up the bullshit and absurd assumptions thanks
And this comes from someone that thinks there is somthing special with a 4H bar


Lorgic you got it right...... whats up with that? most here can not read or can not comprehend what they read
Live today like theres no tomorrow-- Prioritize like you will die today
  • #93
  • Mar 16, 2016 3:55pm Mar 16, 2016 3:55pm
Quoting Lorgic
... they have an account of 100 trilions of their own currency... they can create money trought bonds and things like QE. Creating a bond is creating a money with a interest rate. QE is just buying back that bond with money out of nowhere. QE will raise inflation bonds wont... the bank system allowed us to come in is to counter balance their orders, or helping them fighting the central banks... Central banks have tools who knows ecxacly where the profit is, they dont need info from brokers, they have it directly from forex system, dont forget it is a software with acess to important data, these data are only allowed to central banks, maybe also for big banks, nobody else....
what is the source please?
As Above, So Below
  • #94
  • Mar 16, 2016 4:55pm Mar 16, 2016 4:55pm
I knew it - I always knew in my heart that someone was working against me - now I know it's the big boys. They really see my 0.01 lot stop loss - and they target it just to wipe me out - I must be one hell of a threat to their profit line.

There is a really simple solution. If big traders are looking for liquidity to trade, then don't put a stop loss in the middle of the liquidity pool!! Come on guys - no-one is out to get us. Good retail traders trade with the banks not against them - and they do it at a leverage and risk that allows the market movers to find the liquidity they need without wiping them out.

The best way to slay a giant is to use its strength against it - the best way to beat the bank is to play the bank at its own game. Be one of the fish that hangs onto sharks - feed of the bank - because you're never goning to starve it.

JMHO...
  • #95
  • Mar 17, 2016 2:36pm Mar 17, 2016 2:36pm
Quoting hollowhead
I knew it - I always knew in my heart that someone was working against me - now I know it's the big boys. They really see my 0.01 lot stop loss - and they target it just to wipe me out - I must be one hell of a threat to their profit line. There is a really simple solution. If big traders are looking for liquidity to trade, then don't put a stop loss in the middle of the liquidity pool!! Come on guys - no-one is out to get us. Good retail traders trade with the banks not against them - and they do it at a leverage and risk that allows the market...

Straight and just solution , taken
  • #96
  • Mar 17, 2016 2:52pm Mar 17, 2016 2:52pm
Quoting FerruFx
Stop looking at what others are doing (no matter how big they are) and concentrate on your own trading. That's entirely the trader's fault if he is losing money. Not the broker fault, not the bank fault, ...
could not have said it any better

any trader talking about manipulation surely hasn't matured ...still a babe ..
practising coitus interruptus
  • #97
  • Mar 17, 2016 3:37pm Mar 17, 2016 3:37pm
Quoting Yuri57
Call me nuts but this is what really happens: FX dealers have ALL your information, regarding average position size, price entry and SL levels. This information is given to the liquidity providers (Deutsche Bank, JPM and so on) and they can easily push the price until you all get stopped out. If you have traded FX for some years I don't think this information is too surprising for you. Price goes in the direction where it can cause maximal pain. (Let me add, this is not true for all the markets for eg. bond market but FX because here are the most...
You are somewhat barking up the wrong tree.

First of all, most of the users in this forum are retail traders.

The daily trading flow of retail Traders is just 4% of the entire daily fx flow. Retail FX is just a tiny part of the complete FX market. 96% of the daily FX flow is Institutional flow.

So why would the big guys care about the 4%? They don't, they have enough to do with the 96%.
Forex is a losers game.
  • #98
  • Last Post: Mar 17, 2016 4:04pm Mar 17, 2016 4:04pm
This thread is funny as hell.
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