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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #16,681
  • Feb 19, 2016 9:30am Feb 19, 2016 9:30am
hi again MR PIP, sorry for so many questions.as for harmonics could be trade before D is completed, which signal did you mostly used for entry? trend line breakout? engulfing bar or pinbar, or fibo ratios? or others?
im so afraid of to trade before D,cause there are a lot of fake breakouts, fake pin/engulfing bars...
Voll Verdienst, doch dichterisch, wohnt der Mensch auf der Erde.
  • #16,682
  • Feb 19, 2016 9:51am Feb 19, 2016 9:51am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} I use NinjaTrader, I have limited knowledge of the wave principle but there is a strong correlation in Elliot Wave and Fibonacci. My issues with the Wave Theory is that it is way too complex and mistakes are easy to be made. Trading needs to be simple. If my expectations play out to such a high degree then that is all I need to be able to read and trade. Easy Peesy as my 6 year old would say. At the end of the day price can only do 2 thing from your entry point go up or down, that is simple enough so why the high failure rate is really mind...
nice said MR.PIP! "EASY PEESY"
Voll Verdienst, doch dichterisch, wohnt der Mensch auf der Erde.
  • #16,683
  • Feb 19, 2016 11:07am Feb 19, 2016 11:07am
Quoting fxderek
hi again MR PIP, sorry for so many questions.as for harmonics could be trade before D is completed, which signal did you mostly used for entry? trend line breakout? engulfing bar or pinbar, or fibo ratios? or others? im so afraid of to trade before D,cause there are a lot of fake breakouts, fake pin/engulfing bars...
We have not covered this yet. We will be covering this soon. Have you seen the videos I have posted? and the entries everyone has been taking lately. Not one of these are at a point D they all mainly occur at point C. I will get to the patterns and the completion points but we are learning how to process the chart and learning how to read price action.

To address specifics for entry keep it simple and keep it wholesale. What I mean by that is the skilled prey on the unskilled. Retail trading is full of traps and the fat cats looking for liquidity to fill the large orders by taking advantage of the weaker retail traders trading breakouts, pins, and all the other crap out there. That's why the majority fail because they are traps. Once you have a clear expectation for price and properly assess the Order Flow you will be buying and selling at wholesale prices and not falling victim to the sharks. We not having the capital the sharks have need to be smarter then them. The sharks may be one of the top predators of the sea but they don't mess with dolphins because they are way smarter. Be the dolphin and the sharks will not hurt you. I hope you understand my point.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #16,684
  • Edited 11:49am Feb 19, 2016 11:24am | Edited 11:49am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} You were in a complex correction. Be aware of structural boundaries to understand what the expectation should be.
Original Post: Post 16,657 page 833

Dear Mr. Pip,

please apologise to ask again, but I do not get your point. The structural boundaries were described in my post (within the limits of my english) and I do not know what is wrong with them.
The fact that the price did in fact a complex correction is after completion of the move also evident for me, but not at the time of taking the trade. Moreover, the price turned and the sign for down was also present (bearish engulfing and next candle was big and down). When should I entry if this point was wrong?

Furthermore, the dominant swing had decreasing strength in the candles in comparison to the main swing down (expection: price wants push down). I would have expected the complex correction to take place between my point of entry and the NSH of the main swing, but remaining within these boundaries and not to escaped further above to 61.8 fib.
Should I only change expectation, if the price it my SL which would be above the 78.6 fib?

I would be grateful if you could explain it further or anybody else, since this is for me a crucial aspect. Any input is welcomed.
  • #16,685
  • Feb 19, 2016 11:48am Feb 19, 2016 11:48am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} I disagree almost completely. While the big players need to find liquidity one way or another is true and sometime will play dirty to fill their needs, the markets have order and a pulse. If your statement were true Harmonics and ratios would not be as powerful as they are. We are not at the mercy of the big banks and central players, We are empowered traders with expectations that play out the majority of the time and that is huge power. Those that are at the mercy of these player and believe in noise and all the other nonsense are traders...

Hi Mr Pip;

I don't see it as playing dirty "they" have a Business Model, which is repeated day after day, which is to Accumulate Orders by Manipulating the Market if necessary to acquire their Orders (Liquidity) then Distribute these Orders for profit. We, as Retail Traders need to align ourselves with this Business Model. The EUR/USD Chart I posted earlier is a classic example of this Post 16,674 (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=8765178#post8765178) .

Market Structure and Order Flow are very important but when used in conjunction with the Market Makers Business Model gives even more clarity. It gives extra depth to how the Markets operate.

The Zones I have marked on my chart are not simply Supply and Demand Levels they indicate where Institutions have been Accumulating Orders in the past.

Remember Institutions are Buying on the way DOWN by the time most Retail Traders start to Buy the Institutions are already Liquidating (Sell) to them for profit. (Zero Sum Market).

Good Luck
  • #16,686
  • Feb 19, 2016 12:33pm Feb 19, 2016 12:33pm
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Mr Pip; I don't see it as playing dirty "they" have a Business Model, which is repeated day after day, which is to Accumulate Orders by Manipulating the Market if necessary to acquire their Orders (Liquidity) then Distribute these Orders for profit. We, as Retail Traders need to align ourselves with this Business Model.
I'm curious, how do you know what the "Market Makers Business Model" is?

And why does it matter to what is being taught here?
  • #16,687
  • Feb 19, 2016 2:17pm Feb 19, 2016 2:17pm
Hi Mr. Pip and Happy birthday

I think that i am one of those that getting a little confused with the complex correction.

I have posted 2days' EUR/USD chart (with some notes on) and i 'd like to know what would have been your thoughts around this area with the little yellow arrow.
What are the things that we should focus on to understand that the market will not continue down anymore..
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learn more , earn more
  • #16,688
  • Feb 19, 2016 2:32pm Feb 19, 2016 2:32pm
Quoting Harmonic1976
{quote} I'm curious, how do you know what the "Market Makers Business Model" is? And why does it matter to what is being taught here?

Hi Harmonic;

Because I see it happen every day and in every Market. Accumulation - Manipulation - Distribution

Because having awareness and knowledge of it you in a far stronger position to Trade.

But that's only my opinion so don't worry about it.
  • #16,689
  • Feb 19, 2016 3:03pm Feb 19, 2016 3:03pm
Quoting sasongko10
{quote} correct me if im wrong, you were using fib. expansion not extension. On marketscope FXCM there is no fib. extension tool, but as long as i know the extension of 1.272 is equal by -0.272 fib. retracement. Just in my opinion
Hi Sasongko,

You can draw Fibonacci Extension lines on Marketscope by selecting the -0.272 level in the Fibonacci Retracement properties window.
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  • #16,690
  • Feb 19, 2016 3:05pm Feb 19, 2016 3:05pm
Well had my first 2 bad trades since using this method, but the third one started to pan out positively and quite nicely but the market closed.

I had expected a new structure low both times and thought I was buying the retracement properly. Once I realized it was a 1:1 harmonic trade, then I just placed an entry order at the 1:1 and it hit the entry and went in the desired direction very fast.
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  • #16,691
  • Feb 19, 2016 4:21pm Feb 19, 2016 4:21pm
mr pip, what is your analysis as to what I could have done better or maybe missed in those two trades? Or should I just have had the stop 10 pips above previous structure high? If I had then it wouldn't have been stopped out. Thoughts?
  • #16,692
  • Feb 19, 2016 5:05pm Feb 19, 2016 5:05pm
give me some time. I will respond to every post. I'm celebrating my daughter's birthday.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #16,693
  • Feb 19, 2016 5:09pm Feb 19, 2016 5:09pm
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Harmonic; Because I see it happen every day and in every Market. Accumulation - Manipulation - Distribution Because having awareness and knowledge of it you in a far stronger position to Trade. But that's only my opinion so don't worry about it.
can u go into more detail of how u analysis the market?
  • #16,694
  • Feb 19, 2016 5:14pm Feb 19, 2016 5:14pm
Quoting Mr. Pip
give me some time. I will respond to every post. I'm celebrating my daughter's birthday.


Right on, Enjoy your daughters birthday!
  • #16,695
  • Edited 6:31pm Feb 19, 2016 6:02pm | Edited 6:31pm
R
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Mr Pip; I don't see it as playing dirty "they" have a Business Model, which is repeated day after day, which is to Accumulate Orders by Manipulating the Market if necessary to acquire their Orders (Liquidity) then Distribute these Orders for profit. We, as Retail Traders need to align ourselves with this Business Model. The EUR/USD Chart I posted earlier is a classic example of this Post 16,674 (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=8765178#post8765178) . Market Structure and Order Flow are very important but when used...
Sorry for interipting in your conversation. I know from inside how it works.

Stop loss hunt, and every thing it is true. But there is limitation, market maker cant do what ever he wants, there is other players, big ones, market maker knows where their orders is, and it is his limitation. Plus, there is not one Mm, is other players who can go against you. We had limit 2,5 bln, one group building position, another group trading inside to smoth acuaty cerve.
There was that one time, when we hit big order, from big player, becose there was a game against as. And we lost 1,5 bln.
So why I am saying all of this. All that nonsence which you are trying to push is nothing more then nonsense. No one nows how they play, and if some one playing against them. And it has nothing to do with retail trader.
Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil
  • #16,696
  • Feb 19, 2016 6:07pm Feb 19, 2016 6:07pm
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Harmonic; Because I see it happen every day and in every Market. Accumulation - Manipulation - Distribution Because having awareness and knowledge of it you in a far stronger position to Trade. But that's only my opinion so don't worry about it.
All what you know is guess 50/50. I came from that bussines. I am retail trader now, i had to learn from a scretch. And ppl like you just waist time. Order flow has much more value then your gues what mm is doing,
Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil
  • #16,697
  • Edited 6:21pm Feb 19, 2016 6:08pm | Edited 6:21pm
order flow best !!!!
3 trades today, 3 in plus ))))))
Sorry for those angry posts, hate then ppl saying nonse about what they dont know how it lloks and how it work!
Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil
  • #16,698
  • Feb 19, 2016 7:28pm Feb 19, 2016 7:28pm
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} Original Post: Post 16,657 page 833 Dear Mr. Pip, please apologise to ask again, but I do not get your point. The structural boundaries were described in my post (within the limits of my english) and I do not know what is wrong with them. The fact that the price did in fact a complex correction is after completion of the move also evident for me, but not at the time of taking the trade. Moreover, the price turned and the sign for down was also present (bearish engulfing and next candle was big and down). When should I entry if this point...
No need to be sorry, If you remember from my video I said look for the strongest areas of support or resistance and find ratio confluence. Price corrected deeper then you probable expected the the boundaries should have been clear and so should have been the expectations. Once price broke short term structure was when you should have been thinking complex correction. Review the chart nothing should have changed.
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If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #16,699
  • Feb 19, 2016 7:38pm Feb 19, 2016 7:38pm
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Mr Pip; I don't see it as playing dirty "they" have a Business Model, which is repeated day after day, which is to Accumulate Orders by Manipulating the Market if necessary to acquire their Orders (Liquidity) then Distribute these Orders for profit. We, as Retail Traders need to align ourselves with this Business Model. The EUR/USD Chart I posted earlier is a classic example of this Post 16,674 (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=8765178#post8765178) . Market Structure and Order Flow are very important but when used...
Let's agree to disagree on this one. They do play dirty and at the expense of the little fish. I also understand it's what they must do that doesn't make it clean. It's not a business model it's more like I need to fill these orders and to do this I have to eat everyone in my path. You don't need to understand much more beyond that. Accumulation and distribution who cares. We know where decisions are being made based on our expectation. We can't compete toe to toe with them so we need to be smarter and better then them. I can tell you have invested lots of time studying all this but I assure you that by staying on the wholesale side of the buying and selling it all becomes irrelevant as you will see in the next lesson.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #16,700
  • Feb 19, 2016 7:39pm Feb 19, 2016 7:39pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
{quote} Hi Sasongko, You can draw Fibonacci Extension lines on Marketscope by selecting the -0.272 level in the Fibonacci Retracement properties window. {image}
Thank you Jason that was nice of you.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
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