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Help needed in OANDA + users from Malaysia 105 replies

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  • #24,241
  • Sep 21, 2015 1:56pm Sep 21, 2015 1:56pm
Quoting Faizul
I don't think doing forex can be say illegal in Malaysia. It is just that no brokerage in Malaysia has been given a licence by BNM to operate a currency trading accepts for Banks. So anyone who interests in currency trade has to open up account at regulated brokerage outside Malaysia. This has become very easy when internet dominated our lives already. My advice please make sure you are using regulated brokerage .. means a licence brokerage from respectives countries. Im using brokerage Pruton Mega Berjangka, regulated broker from Indonesia

Correct! Basically, it is NOT illegal to do forex trading in Malaysia, as long as you're doing it with the local ONSHORE banks/financial institutions. That is rule no. 1. Secondly, you must be SOPHISTICATED INVESTOR category (high net worth individuals with annual income around RM100,000 or having RM1mil cash in your possesion) - - - according to Labuan Financial Services Authority Act (LFSAA). Furthermore, ALL forex trading done in Malaysia by banks and other hedge funds are operating in Labuan, NOT elsewhere. And sadly, locals are prohibited to get involve as investor or trader unless specified otherwise under FSA2013.

In this matter, it is become ILLEGAL activity (according to "our" law anyway... ). Forex is liberalized before June 2013, now semua tak boleh...

However, there is a way... but I will not share it because it is a loophole. I don't want any "law-abiding citizens" tattle tale to the lawmakers and made it totally impossible to do fx trading for the "have-nots" like me...
  • #24,242
  • Sep 21, 2015 2:02pm Sep 21, 2015 2:02pm
Quoting XM.Asia
Alright, thanks guys for the reply. Now i'll be able to trade in peace.

Most of your concerns have already been addressed in this thread.

To date, that thread is only 21 pages. If that's too long for you today, you can use the coming Eid holiday weekend to sit down with whatever beverage of your choice, and read it from start to end.

Good luck!
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #24,243
  • Edited 9:07pm Sep 22, 2015 7:34pm | Edited 9:07pm
Quoting Hariz
Too lazy to do research about it, I just remember a bit about the restriction of doing Fx trading that involves Malaysian Ringgit. (Sorry if I'm wrong...)
Don't be too lazy, bro. If they put you in jail, you cannot use that as an excuse.

Quoting Hariz
{quote} No bro... Illegal here is in the sense of "doing online forex trading OTHER than LOCAL ONSHORE BANKS/FINANCIAL INSTITUTION"
We can't trade forex online even WITH local onshore banks because no onshore banks provide that service. Legality doesn't come into the picture. For example, the reason you cannot ban flying pigs is because pigs that fly do not exist.

TRADING against ringgit (i.e. exchanging for speculative reason), however, is clearly illegal.

Quoting Hariz
Money in or out is OKAY, as long as it is comply with AMLATFA (Anti-money laundering and Terrorism Financing Act) - - - in Malaysia, which is there is enough evidence (documentary support) mentioning the "flow" of the money including the origin BEFORE & AFTER it was transferred.
Agreed. No arguments from me here.

Quoting Hariz
{quote} Correct! Basically, it is NOT illegal to do forex trading in Malaysia, as long as you're doing it with the local ONSHORE banks/financial institutions. That is rule no. 1.
Sorry.. this is wrong. Agreed, it is not illegal to trade forex (in non-MYR pairs) in Malaysia. But trading with local onshore banks is not the reason it is not illegal, because local onshore banks do not (currently) provide this avenue.

Quoting Hariz
Secondly, you must be SOPHISTICATED INVESTOR category (high net worth individuals with annual income around RM100,000 or having RM1mil cash in your possesion) - - - according to Labuan Financial Services Authority Act (LFSAA).
Not true also. LFSA has nothing to do with (and has no jurisdiction over) forex trading in Malaysia.


Quoting Hariz
Furthermore, ALL forex trading done in Malaysia by banks and other hedge funds are operating in Labuan, NOT elsewhere.
Absolutely not true. All speculative forex trading by Banks in Malaysia are done in Kuala Lumpur. I should know. I traded for Malaysian Banks for more than 15 years.

Quoting Hariz
And sadly, locals are prohibited to get involve as investor or trader unless specified otherwise under FSA2013.
FSA2013 only governs the conduct of licensed financial institutions in Malaysia, not private investors.

Private investors are governed by exchange control laws and BNM's Exchange Control Measures (ECMs).

Quoting Hariz
In this matter, it is become ILLEGAL activity (according to "our" law anyway... ). Forex is liberalized before June 2013, now semua tak boleh... However, there is a way... but I will not share it because it is a loophole. I don't want any "law-abiding citizens" tattle tale to the lawmakers and made it totally impossible to do fx trading for the "have-nots" like me...

Erm... the only useful loophole is ECM 9. It's not a big secret.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #24,244
  • Edited 10:30am Sep 23, 2015 10:11am | Edited 10:30am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Don't be too lazy, bro. If they put you in jail, you cannot use that as an excuse.
Don't say like that laa bro. I not married yet. Dying alone rotten in jail is certainly a pathetic way to die...

Quoting skenobi
{quote} We can't trade forex online even WITH local onshore banks because no onshore banks provide that service. Legality doesn't come into the picture. For example, the reason you cannot ban flying pigs is because pigs that fly do not exist. TRADING against ringgit (i.e. exchanging for speculative reason), however, is clearly illegal.
No Onshore banks provide online forex trading? Are you sure bro? I have had several serious discussion with "them" regarding this matter and I have make sure "they" get everything ready for me (as discussed) in the near future... One of these banks is a vewy vewy vewy famous bank. Even providing MT4! (I'm NOT kidding!).

Quoting skenobi
{quote} Sorry.. this is wrong. Agreed, it is not illegal to trade forex (in non-MYR pairs) in Malaysia. But trading with local onshore banks is not the reason it is not illegal, because local onshore banks do not (currently) provide this avenue.
I'm saying it illegal not because of reason bro. I stated fact. It is clearly mentioned in Financial Services Act 2013. I don't remember under which para. Forgetful these days. I guess being single and old can turned you into a senile!

Quoting skenobi
{quote} Not true also. LFSA has nothing to do with (and has no jurisdiction over) forex trading in Malaysia.
Errr, actually bro, I'm referring to the definition of "high net-worth investor" mentioned in LFSA, not forex. However, your statement is true. LFSA does not include forex trading.

Quoting skenobi
{quote} Absolutely not true. All speculative forex trading by Banks in Malaysia are done in Kuala Lumpur. I should know. I traded for Malaysian Banks for more than 15 years.
Wow! So, you're actually the real forex trader bro? It is an honour to meet a real forex trader with long years of experience. The real deal!
"Trading for the banks or any particular financial institution" is what we call "The Operations". Your words are true, it actually can be done anyway, not only KL. That's the operation department. What actually I'm referring to is the management office (Top Brass - the decision makers office) MUST be in Labuan. Either by "name" to comply the law and "move" it to other states for total operations and management; is depends on the management strategies or any other hidden agenda. Business la bro, pandai2 la nak idup.. hehehe.... But basically, the first office to be set up before anything else... is in Labuan if "they" intend to.. bla bla.. bla.. (my fingers getting tired... no recording facility ka in forexfactory.. hehehe..)

Come to think of it, my fault for not elaborate everything. Sorry bro. My otak already explain everything while I type, but my finger malas..

Quoting skenobi
{quote} FSA2013 only governs the conduct of licensed financial institutions in Malaysia, not private investors. Private investors are governed by exchange control laws and BNM's Exchange Control Measures (ECMs). {quote} Erm... the only useful loophole is ECM 9. It's not a big secret.
Err, actually bro, It covers almost everything. The basis of the creation of FSA is the UK' FSA (now "FCA" Financial Conduct Authority and two other more abbreviations that I do not bother to memorize.. ). As you already know, Paymemt System Act, Insurance Act, Exchange Control Act (including ALL ECM), Money Changers Act and "light, camera, ACTion!" were gone to give room for this act.. the Islamic version "IFSA" covers any syariah-compliant financial laws. So, what I'm trying to say is, ECM 9 is not the loophole that I'm referring to.. sorry bro, not even close.

Hopefully we'll be fine for years to come.. Selamat aidiladha to muslims around the world and happy holiday to all.. good night..
  • #24,245
  • Sep 24, 2015 11:49am Sep 24, 2015 11:49am
Quoting Hariz
{quote} No Onshore banks provide online forex trading? Are you sure bro?
Up to this moment, yes. Anything can happen in the future.

Quoting Hariz
I have had several serious discussion with "them" regarding this matter and I have make sure "they" get everything ready for me (as discussed) in the near future...
I wish you success with that!

Quoting Hariz
One of these banks is a vewy vewy vewy famous bank. Even providing MT4! (I'm NOT kidding!).
CitiFX (if this is the one you mean providing MT4) closed down as at June of this year, having recently sold their retail FX business to FXCM.

Citi Malaysia (or any Bank legally incorporated in Malaysia for that matter) has never been allowed to introduce retail forex trading as a product (yet). If anyone can produce a current product sheet or website reference, I stand corrected. But I doubt it. Any such introduction would have become common knowledge to domestic institutionals such as myself.

Quoting Hariz
{quote} I'm saying it illegal not because of reason bro. I stated fact. It is clearly mentioned in Financial Services Act 2013.
For the benefit of the readers of this thread, I refer to the FSA 2013 as per this link.

For some context: I've traded for Banks since 1995, first governed by BAFIA and now FSA 2013. Let me reiterate that FSA only governs the conduct of financial institutions, their principal officers, and any other Authorized Persons employed by the institutions to represent them.

Nowhere in the FSA does it say or imply that individuals (who are not principal officers and Authorized Persons) cannot engage in non-MYR retail forex margin trading. The reader is advised to read thru (let's not be lazy) the Act to satisfy themselves whether this is true (or not).

Please point out the relevant paras if anyone thinks the above is not true.

Quoting Hariz
"Trading for the banks or any particular financial institution" is what we call "The Operations". Your words are true, it actually can be done anyway, not only KL. That's the operation department.
We're called the Treasury Department and we're the front-line warriors in a profit centre contributing heavily to any Bank's bottomline. "Operations" are just the nuts and bolts i.e. the cost centre.

Quoting Hariz
What actually I'm referring to is the management office (Top Brass - the decision makers office) MUST be in Labuan. Either by "name" to comply the law and "move" it to other states for total operations and management;
By "law", I'm going to assume you meant LFSA.

Anyways, for everyone's guide, hedge funds only park capital in Labuan (or any tax haven for that matter) to take advantage of the tax haven status. If KL offered the same tax protections, they'd have moved back to KL easily.

Quoting Hariz
is depends on the management strategies or any other hidden agenda. Business la bro, pandai2 la nak idup.. hehehe.... But basically, the first office to be set up before anything else... is in Labuan if "they" intend to.. bla bla.. bla..
My advice: ditch Labuan. There are other less problematic places. And even these are getting less and less.

Quoting Hariz
(my fingers getting tired... no recording facility ka in forexfactory.. hehehe..) Come to think of it, my fault for not elaborate everything. Sorry bro. My otak already explain everything while I type, but my finger malas..
If you want to avoid breaking any laws, you cannot be "malas". Answers have to be at your fingertips in the event of any regulatory enquiry.

Quoting Hariz
As you already know, Paymemt System Act, Insurance Act, Exchange Control Act (including ALL ECM), Money Changers Act and "light, camera, ACTion!" were gone to give room for this act.. the Islamic version "IFSA" covers any syariah-compliant financial laws.
You're right. I stand corrected. I forgot about the repeals.

Quoting Hariz
So, what I'm trying to say is, ECM 9 is not the loophole that I'm referring to.. sorry bro, not even close.
While I stand corrected on the repeal of the exchange control laws, my statement on the FSA only governing the conduct of financial institutions still stands.

Retail traders are still governed by BNM's FEA rules for Residents, which, if you had read it, sounds almost exactly as the old ECM 9.

For the benefit of Malaysian readers here, it's in para 2.3 of this document which is updated as at Dec 2014. This para alone already gives any Malaysian retail trader the freedom to trade any non-MYR pair and certainly doesn't need any other loophole.

Quoting Hariz
Hopefully we'll be fine for years to come.. Selamat aidiladha to muslims around the world and happy holiday to all.. good night..
Wassalam to you and yours. Selamat Hari Raya, sir.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #24,246
  • Sep 27, 2015 4:09am Sep 27, 2015 4:09am
Hi everyone, i'm new here
This is another post regarding the legality of forex trading(on margin & leverage) in Malaysia.
RED means copied from the ACT.

In the Money Changing Act 1998, "No person shall carry on money-changing business without a licence granted under this Act" , For the purposes of this Act, “money-changing business” means ——(a) the business of entering into an exchange transaction at a rate of exchange.
“exchange transaction” means an exchange of one foreign currency with ringgit or with another foreign currency;
“foreign currency” means currency notes and coins which are legal tender in any territory outside Malaysia, excluding the foreign currencies set out in the First Schedule.

I "think" this act is to prohibit foreign exchange business(in cash) without a license from BNM. BNM mostly uses this as the prescribed law to handle queries about FOREX LEGALITY.

However, in earlier stage, Exchange Control Act 1953 states in Part II Dealings in gold and foreign currency,:—
4. (1) Except with the permission of the Controller, no person, other than an authorized dealer, shall, in Malaysia— (a) buy or borrow any gold or foreign currency from; (b) sell or lend any gold or foreign currency to; or (c) do any act which involves, is in association with, or is preparatory to, buying or borrowing any gold or foreign currency from, or selling or lending any gold or foreign currency to, any person other than an authorized dealer.
(2) Except with the permission of the Controller, no person resident in the scheduled territories, other than an authorized dealer, shall, in Malaysia, do any act which involves, is in association with, or is preparatory to, buying or borrowing any gold or foreign currency from, or selling or lending any gold or foreign currency to, any person outside Malaysia.
“foreign currency” does not include local currency or any currency or notes issued under the law of any part of the scheduled territories but, save as aforesaid, includes any currency and any notes of a class which are or have at any time been legal tender in any territory outside Malaysia, and any reference to foreign currency, except so far as the context otherwise requires, includes a reference to any right to receive foreign currency in respect of any credit or balance at a Bank;
Means Bank Notes(currency) <—cash form, regardless being digital or paper form.
“gold” means gold coin and bullion and includes any gold in whatever state or form other than gold which has been materially increased in value by skilled craftsmanship;
Means Gold(physical), coin bullion and jewelry.

Note that BNM only cares about activities occurring IN MALAYSIA. This is because when I am in Thailand(let say)（physical presence) i am free to exchange my ringgit with Thai money changer. With that being said, i am also free to issue an order to a third party (physically in Thailand) to enter into the transaction.
This is because it is impossible to disallow every offshore dealer (eg. Goldman Sachs and etc.) to enter into transaction with Malaysian residents. BUT if the transaction is taking place in Malaysia, means Goldman Sachs(for example) and me(phsically in Malaysia) directly enter into forex transaction, i.e. I transfer(sell) my Ringgit to Goldman Sachs and in return, Goldman Sachs transfer(i buy) Dollars to me, this is illegal. Like any other online overseas transaction, i will have to convert my Ringgit with local authorized dealer and then transfer the funds to overseas to buy the product, unless the overseas business is willing to invoice me in Ringgit, then i will have no issue to transfer the ringgit overseas(which is very rare).

In ECM 9, BNM states that A resident individual with domestic ringgit credit facilities(loan and borrowings) is allowed to convert ringgit into foreign currency up to RM1 million per calendar year for investment in foreign currency assets. In the FEA rules in BNM website(as at 27/9/2015), it states that Residents without domestic ringgit borrowing are free to invest abroad.

This gives us the legality to fund our trading account offshore using our funds. But since brokers do not accept ringgit, we MUST convert our ringgit to USD(or any other base currency) through our authorised dealer, IN MALAYSIA, but you can fly overseas and exchange ringgit to USD with Goldman Sachs then fund your account, then fly back Malaysia. Sounds insane right.

The issue here in Malaysia is with Islamic Financing, which views currency and bank notes as a medium of exchange and should not be traded for a CAPITAL GAIN. But if let say i am BREAD(from now on abbreviated to BRD) seller.
Now i am buying 1 bread for say 1 ringgit, that will be 1 BRDMYR.
Which means i am LONG BRDMYR (buy BRD sell MYR).
Then for trading purpose, i think i can get a better price(speculation or anticipatory). Then i sell my bread (closing the opened position) at a better price say 2 ringgit, and that will be 2 BRDMYR (buy BRD sell MYR). [note that for quotes, BRDMYR and BRD/MYR is not the same)
LONG BREAD 1 X (1-0.5) = 0.5 , I earn a capital gain of RM 0.50.
Isn't all retail business work this way, buying goods at a lower price, selling at a higher price.....
If this is the case, as i am not an authorized dealer, i maybe guilty under this act(depends on whether how the ministry or bank define my act)

Later on, BNM repealed all ECN and ECA 1953 with FSA 2013 from 30 June 2013 onwards.
This gives BNM the power as stated in the act. 140. (1) The Bank may specify standards or issue codes for the purposes of developing, or maintaining orderly conditions or the integrity of, the money market or foreign exchange market. ​And in the subsection 2(b) the issuance, sale, purchase, repurchase, borrowing or lending, of or other dealings in, currencies or other financial instruments traded in the money market or foreign exchange market including over-the-counter derivatives whose price, value or payment obligations are derived from, referenced to or based on interest rates or exchange rates.​
Means bank has the power to specify standards(although still limited).
In 141. (1) No person shall(prohibition)—
(a) take part in or carry out a transaction that has or is likely to have the effect of creating a rate which is an off-market rate which results in an artificial rate for dealing in financial instruments in the money market or foreign exchange market; ​
(b) create, or cause to be created, or do anything that is calculated to create, a false or misleading appearance of active dealing in financial instruments in the money market or foreign exchange market; (market maker inside Malaysia)
In my opinion, this act is to counter the fraud in this so called "quick rich forex scam" disguised under the name of forex. (Deposit taking). Note that bank admit foreign currency is USD, EUR, GBP, CHF, JPY. And EURUSD, USDJPY, GBPCHF are financial instruments traded in money market. i.e. they are all contracts and I am not going to take the physical delivery of any currency as stated in the contract but to gain capital gain from the contract itself. That's why we have lot size. Furthermore, BNM did not mentioned anything about funding trading account offshores but allows investments made offshore to be free but subject to restictions (RM1million as per ECM9 and the newly FEA rules).

So, as a conclusion, open your eyes to recognise scams from real forex trading. They are not the same. Bank Negara Malaysia are there to counter the scams. Trading in Forex without applicable knowledge is pure gambling, and people who fall for the scam has the same characteristics. They are LAZY(to work or to learn the knowledge) and they are GREEDY(thinking of quick high return).

DISCLAIMER————i am not a licensed law advisor nor this is a invitation to trade forex. Please consult bla bla bla... and this presentation is for educational purpose only. Trading foreign exchange on margin carries a high level of risk and may not be suitable for all investors. The high degree of leverage can work against you as well as for you. The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss in excess to your investment. Before deciding to trade foreign exchange you should carefully consider your investment objectives, level of experience, and risk appetite. You should be aware of all the risks associated with foreign exchange trading and seek advice from an independent financial advisor if you have any doubts. Any opinions, news, research, analyses, prices, or other information contained on this website is provided as general market commentary and does not constitute investment advice. I(moxun) will not accept liability for any loss or damage, including without limitation to, any loss of profit, which may arise directly or indirectly from use of or reliance on such information.
  • #24,247
  • Sep 28, 2015 1:07am Sep 28, 2015 1:07am
Quoting moxun
With that being said, i am also free to issue an order to a third party (physically in Thailand) to enter into the transaction. This is because it is impossible to disallow every offshore dealer (eg. Goldman Sachs and etc.) to enter into transaction with Malaysian residents. BUT if the transaction is taking place in Malaysia, means Goldman Sachs(for example) and me(phsically in Malaysia) directly enter into forex transaction, i.e. I transfer(sell) my Ringgit to Goldman Sachs
GS's MYR account with a local Malaysian Bank.

Quoting moxun
and in return, Goldman Sachs transfer(i buy) Dollars to me,
From GS's USD account in New York to your Malaysian Bank's USD account in New York in a US bank.

Quoting moxun
this is illegal.
Doesn't sound illegal to me.

Quoting moxun
Like any other online overseas transaction, i will have to convert my Ringgit with local authorized dealer and then transfer the funds to overseas to buy the product, unless the overseas business is willing to invoice me in Ringgit, then i will have no issue to transfer the ringgit overseas(which is very rare).
In any case whatsoever, to date and until further notice, you will never be able transfer ringgit overseas in any substantial size.

Quoting moxun
In ECM 9, BNM states that A resident individual with domestic ringgit credit facilities(loan and borrowings) is allowed to convert ringgit into foreign currency up to RM1 million per calendar year for investment in foreign currency assets. In the FEA rules in BNM website(as at 27/9/2015), it states that Residents without domestic ringgit borrowing are free to invest abroad.

Quoting moxun
This gives us the legality to fund our trading account offshore using our funds. But since brokers do not accept ringgit, we MUST convert our ringgit to USD(or any other base currency) through our authorised dealer, IN MALAYSIA, but you can fly overseas and exchange ringgit to USD with Goldman Sachs then fund your account, then fly back Malaysia. Sounds insane right.
It is insane. It's also rather pointless. You can just transfer MYR to GS's MYR account in a Malaysian Bank to buy your USD and you don't have to waste time flying overseas. We are in the 21st century, after all.


Quoting moxun
Later on, BNM repealed all ECN and ECA 1953 with FSA 2013 from 30 June 2013 onwards. This gives BNM the power as stated in the act. 140. (1) The Bank may specify standards or issue codes for the purposes of developing, or maintaining orderly conditions or the integrity of, the money market or foreign exchange market. ​And in the subsection 2(b) the issuance, sale, purchase, repurchase, borrowing or lending, of or other dealings in, currencies or other financial instruments traded in the money market or foreign exchange market including over-the-counter...
TL; DR

Quoting moxun
In my opinion, this act is to counter the fraud in this so called "quick rich forex scam" disguised under the name of forex. (Deposit taking).
No it isn't. FSA2013 governs the conduct of licensed financial institutions, their principal officers and any other Authorised Persons employed by the aforementioned institutions. The "person" in the FSA Act refers to Authorised Person, not just some random person from the street.


Quoting moxun
Note that bank admit foreign currency is USD, EUR, GBP, CHF, JPY. And EURUSD, USDJPY, GBPCHF are financial instruments traded in money market. i.e. they are all contracts and I am not going to take the physical delivery of any currency as stated in the contract but to gain capital gain from the contract itself. That's why we have lot size.
In the spot market, Banks trade with real money and not in standard notional contracts of imaginary amounts like retail traders do. Physical delivery is implied but nowadays this takes place in the form of electronic credits and debits allowed by mutual netting agreements between the counterparty banks.

Quoting moxun
Furthermore, BNM did not mentioned anything about funding trading account offshores but allows investments made offshore to be free but subject to restictions (RM1million as per ECM9 and the newly FEA rules).
It appears that ECM9 is no longer in force and has been replaced by BNM's new FEA rules.

Quoting moxun
So, as a conclusion, open your eyes to recognise scams from real forex trading. They are not the same.
Agreed.

Quoting moxun
Bank Negara Malaysia are there to counter the scams.
No it is not, I'm afraid. Bank Negara's job is to promote monetary and financial stability. Bank Negara has no time to counter scams and to protect "investors" and speculators from making stupid bets.

Quoting moxun
Trading in Forex without applicable knowledge is pure gambling, and people who fall for the scam has the same characteristics. They are LAZY(to work or to learn the knowledge) and they are GREEDY(thinking of quick high return)
No argument from me here.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the &quot;convincing&quot; business.
  • #24,248
  • Sep 28, 2015 9:45am Sep 28, 2015 9:45am
[quote=skenobi;8511722]{quote} GS's MYR account with a local Malaysian Bank. {quote} From GS's USD account in New York to your Malaysian Bank's USD account in New York in a US bank. {quote} Doesn't sound illegal to me.
If the transfer is using local Malaysian Bank or local licensed money changer, then perhaps its legal, but if it is using GS's own quote, then how?

{quote} It is insane. It's also rather pointless. You can just transfer MYR to GS's MYR account in a Malaysian Bank to buy your USD and you don't have to waste time flying overseas. We are in the 21st century, after all.
Yes indeed, so it will be legal to fund our trading account using our USD converted from MYR legally.

{quote} No it isn't. FSA2013 governs the conduct of licensed financial institutions, their principal officers and any other Authorised Persons employed by the aforementioned institutions. The "person" in the FSA Act refers to Authorised Person, not just some random person from the street.
“person” includes an individual, any corporation, statutory body, local authority, society, trade union, co-operative society, partnership and any other body, organization, association or group of persons, whether corporate or unincorporate; (from FSA 2013)

{quote} In the spot market, Banks trade with real money and not in standard notional contracts of imaginary amounts like retail traders do. Physical delivery is implied but nowadays this takes place in the form of electronic credits and debits allowed by mutual netting agreements between the counterparty banks.
Sorry for the confusion, but i mean the way we are executing our orders(by leverage that brokers offer) is different from banks entering into a spot transaction.

{quote} It appears that ECM9 is no longer in force and has been replaced by BNM's new FEA rules.
Yeap, and the things in ECM9 is in FEA rules.

{quote} No it is not, I'm afraid. Bank Negara's job is to promote monetary and financial stability. Bank Negara has no time to counter scams and to protect "investors" and speculators from making stupid bets.
Agree.
  • #24,249
  • Sep 28, 2015 7:28pm Sep 28, 2015 7:28pm
Quoting moxun
Quoting skenobi
{quote} GS's MYR account with a local Malaysian Bank. {quote} From GS's USD account in New York to your Malaysian Bank's USD account in New York in a US bank. {quote} Doesn't sound illegal to me.
If the transfer is using local Malaysian Bank or local licensed money changer, then perhaps its legal, but if it is using GS's own quote, then how?
Anybody also can quote. Willing buyer, willing seller.

Quoting moxun
person includes an individual, any corporation, statutory body, local authority, society, trade union, co-operative society, partnership and any other body, organization, association or group of persons, whether corporate or unincorporate; (from FSA 2013)
My earlier contention stands i.e. the Act's main purpose is mainly to govern conduct of Financial Institutions. Prescribing punishments in para 3 of section 143 is one thing. Actively protecting stupid investors is not BNM's job.

Good discussion!
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the &quot;convincing&quot; business.
  • #24,250
  • Jan 4, 2016 11:08pm Jan 4, 2016 11:08pm
hi all .. i am new here. i am from india using demo mt4 with paid data for indian exchanges... today suddenly it get closed and news box came with malware trojan found and not allow .. how it is possible... some indicators are also not working good...that time it gets close and got message. why people are doing like this they are giving indicators with virus or how they insert virus please any one explain me and how to protect system from virus and the same time good working with indicators. because with out indicators i cant do any trades
thanking you all and belated happy new yr wishes
Success is a Journey Not a Destination....... kind regards ramzam
  • #24,251
  • Jan 6, 2016 9:19am Jan 6, 2016 9:19am
Quoting ramzam
hi all .. i am new here. i am from india using demo mt4 with paid data for indian exchanges... today suddenly it get closed and news box came with malware trojan found and not allow .. how it is possible... some indicators are also not working good...that time it gets close and got message. why people are doing like this they are giving indicators with virus or how they insert virus please any one explain me and how to protect system from virus and the same time good working with indicators. because with out indicators i cant do any trades thanking...
Hi ramzam,

1. How about register with other forex brokers? Preferably not with India.
2. Don't use paid service. Not worth it
3. If you want to use indicator, classic ones like MACD, Bollinger Bands, CCI will do

Hope that help.
  • #24,252
  • Jan 6, 2016 9:10pm Jan 6, 2016 9:10pm
Quoting zhexiang
{quote} Hi ramzam, 1. How about register with other forex brokers? Preferably not with India. 2. Don't use paid service. Not worth it 3. If you want to use indicator, classic ones like MACD, Bollinger Bands, CCI will do Hope that help.
there is no other way in india to get data. as indian exchanges are providing data to broking companies for nest and odin terminals and we are getting odin or nest to do trades from broking companies. so far as indian government not allowing to mt4 terminals to broking companies because the exchanges has to modify its form to mt4 data levels as of now they are not having that format. so like me all indian traders are paying for data to get in mt4 terminals. i heard some software is there that fetch data from odin or nest and gives to mt4 terminal and it will be cost free but i dont know much and i am not much knowledge with computers
Success is a Journey Not a Destination....... kind regards ramzam
  • #24,253
  • Jan 22, 2016 2:33am Jan 22, 2016 2:33am
Any full time trader can guide me how to declare profit to LHDN? i sent email to LHDN but no reply. Thanks a million!
  • #24,254
  • Jan 22, 2016 7:36pm Jan 22, 2016 7:36pm
Quoting hello966
Any full time trader can guide me how to declare profit to LHDN? i sent email to LHDN but no reply. Thanks a million!
There is no capital gains tax in Malaysia. There is nothing to declare.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the &quot;convincing&quot; business.
  • #24,255
  • Jan 22, 2016 8:20pm Jan 22, 2016 8:20pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} There is no capital gains tax in Malaysia. There is nothing to declare.
May i know are you a full time trader? Previously my profit are just below RM30k a year... but start of this year, i made over RM100k profit... that why i prefer to declare since i have income tax record with LHDN (i was an employee few years ago). but not sure how.
  • #24,256
  • Edited 6:40pm Jan 25, 2016 6:14am | Edited 6:40pm
Quoting hello966
{quote} May i know are you a full time trader?
I trade all the time, plus I own my own business. Whether that makes me "full-time" or "part-time", is a distinction I'm not overly concerned with myself.

Quoting hello966
that why i prefer to declare since i have income tax record with LHDN (i was an employee few years ago). but not sure how.
The above sentence doesn't make sense to me. Just because one has a prior IRD record, does not make one "prefer" to want to declare, unless one needs the record so that he can apply for bank loans in future (since banks need income tax return information).

Also, trying to declare income that is not even taxable in the first place is also potentially more trouble than it's worth.

But since you insist, the following is something you can consider:
1. Create a consulting business. (whether this business is dummy or real, is up to you)
2. Create regular or semi regular (dummy or real) invoices in your name, backdated to your preference. (i.e pay yourself a "salary")
3. Declare this "consulting" income in your tax return Form B (for persons with business income).
4. (in case you get audited, produce the above invoices)

Going forward you will have to consider the following issues:
1. Registering or incorporating your business
2. Apportioning your utility bills for use as tax deductibles
3. Whatever else you can use as tax deductibles
4. Registering for GST (if applicable)
5. Engaging a tax adviser.
6. (fill in your own blanks)

Like I said: potentially more trouble than it's worth.

Please note that the above is technically "money laundering" but it's a very silly odd form of laundering (as compared to laundering drug money or pimping income) because you would be laundering income that was technically non-taxable (and NOT illegal) in the first place.

But that's your choice.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the &quot;convincing&quot; business.
  • #24,257
  • Jan 25, 2016 10:31pm Jan 25, 2016 10:31pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} There is no capital gains tax in Malaysia. There is nothing to declare.
No, It is depend some situation to clarified whether you are capital gain, last time i saw a newspaper on sinchew have 1 articles are related on this matter.

Now the question is how does LHDN to clarified you are capital gain profit on financial market or properties market.
First do you trade FREQUENTLY?
If YES and make them for living LHDN will consider that is the BUSINESS ＩＮＣＯＭＥ rather than capital gain so you have to pay tax.
If NO your position are take more longer period e.g. few months, this will considered capital gain.

Second, this part are more people misunderstanding, because some people would said foreign sources of income is untaxable.
How foreign sources of income is untaxable?
LHDN will see PERMANENT ESTABLISHMENT, this is a legal term apply to tax law.
When foreign sources of income are made at overseas, WHEN YOU ARE AT OVERSEAS TO PERFORM YOU TASK is untaxable by LHDN so mean you are not liable to pay tax, you PERMANENT ESTABLISHMENT at overseas. If you trade or PERFORM YOUR TASK IN MALAYSIA so mean your PERMANENT ESTABLISHMENT in Malaysia so means Income derrived from Malaysia so have to pay tax.
  • #24,258
  • Jan 26, 2016 12:26am Jan 26, 2016 12:26am
Quoting ZouJieMing
{quote} No, It is depend some situation to clarified whether you are capital gain, last time i saw a newspaper on sinchew have 1 articles are related on this matter.
You saw in a newspaper but not linking to the article here to help readers of this thread. Nice.

Next time, if you mention an article that you "saw somewhere", why not show us a link so that we can all learn from you? Be helpful. In my case, I never said I saw any article but am sharing based on knowledge of my own tax payer profile and conversations with tax advisers and other tax payers.

Quoting ZouJieMing
Now the question is how does LHDN to clarified you are capital gain profit on financial market or properties market. First do you trade FREQUENTLY? If YES and make them for living LHDN will consider that is the BUSINESS ＩＮＣＯＭＥ rather than capital gain so you have to pay tax. If NO your position are take more longer period e.g. few months, this will considered capital gain.
As per my last post and based on your own description: it looks like declaring trading income is more trouble than it is worth. We have to rely on IRD's interpretation of what is "frequent" and what is not, and I don't think that's fair.

It is so much simpler to just NOT declare trading profits, and only repatriating funds home when absolutely required.

Quoting ZouJieMing
Second, this part are more people misunderstanding, because some people would said foreign sources of income is untaxable. How foreign sources of income is untaxable? LHDN will see PERMANENT ESTABLISHMENT, this is a legal term apply to tax law. When foreign sources of income are made at overseas, WHEN YOU ARE AT OVERSEAS TO PERFORM YOU TASK is untaxable by LHDN so mean you are not liable to pay tax, you PERMANENT ESTABLISHMENT at overseas. If you trade or PERFORM YOUR TASK IN MALAYSIA so mean your PERMANENT ESTABLISHMENT in Malaysia so means Income...
I agree with what you said because I have experience of my income being in both categories (i.e. earned and performed overseas, as well earned overseas but performed domestically).

But this is relevant when talking about trading income in a Malaysian context only if you choose to declare your profits as business income, WHICH, you don't really have to.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the &quot;convincing&quot; business.
  • #24,259
  • Jan 26, 2016 3:31am Jan 26, 2016 3:31am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} You saw in a newspaper but not linking to the article here to help readers of this thread. Nice. Next time, if you mention an article that you "saw somewhere", why not show us a link so that we can all learn from you? Be helpful. In my case, I never said I saw any article but am sharing based on knowledge of my own tax payer profile and conversations with tax advisers and other tax payers. {quote} As per my last post and based on your own description: it looks like declaring trading income is more trouble than it is worth. We...
Sorry ya

Here is that link, but in chinese content
http://biz.sinchew.com.my/node/59491?tid=8

another link which is taxation Q&A replied by tax agent about trading income you can find
(4月21日) 5th and 17th column and (4月7日) 20th column
http://biz.sinchew.com.my/tax2014_qna


This 2 links is about forex trading income
http://biz.sinchew.com.my/node/72566

Taxation Q&A Question 4 and 7
http://biz.sinchew.com.my/node/111107

I saw 1 full time forex trader he choose to pay tax he sharing his experiences at investalks forum
http://investalks.com/forum/forum.ph...extra=page%3D1

http://www.investalks.com/forum/foru...read&tid=30976


I'm just sharing what i seeing and what i'm know lah
  • #24,260
  • Jan 26, 2016 3:54am Jan 26, 2016 3:54am
Hi all, may I know whether selling Paypal considered money laundering in Malaysia? Hope someone will explain this...thanks
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