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Is Forex trading worth it? If so, why?

  • #461
  • Jan 13, 2016 3:48am Jan 13, 2016 3:48am
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
{quote} Not sure where you get this non-sense from. Too many retail Forex conspiracies. Yes, they are sent to the true market. Retail brokers are simply a middle men between small traders and the "true market"... institutional orders and other clients from other retail brokers combine to equal the whole market. Most of the time, you will be filling part of a institutions orders, because like you said they are 94% of the liquidity. When I bought 5 standard lots of AUDJPY at 82.20, I was taking a tiny sliver of a bank or hedge fund or other institutions...
what actually happens is they square there book ,complex algorithms send through orders if ther book falls outside of its restricted risk,but for most part our orders are equalled out within the brokerage
  • #462
  • Jan 13, 2016 3:50am Jan 13, 2016 3:50am
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
{quote} They dont "matter" as in the market would be illiquid without them. But they are 5% of the market. So it kinda does matter. Im not trying to back-peddle. I stand by what I said. In effect, our orders are interacting with theirs, even though we don't do it directly. What are you 12 years old? Hint: Act more mature/civil, it will give you more credibility.


Eh...I was going to let it slide, but...you are back peddling a bit.
You stated your assertions about interbank market involvement:
Here
Quote
Yes, they are sent to the true market.
Incorrect

Here
Quote
When I bought 5 standard lots of AUDJPY at 82.20, I was taking a tiny sliver of a bank or hedge fund or other institutions order.
Incorrect

And here
Quote
Someone just took the other side of my trade at 83.33/38. LP either matched my order with other retail traders or took on the trade themselves, and then immediately matched their order with interbank to cover.
Incorrect

I really don't see how this could be misinterpreted, but...frankly I'm over discussing it now.

Actually as jmn5611 said, it doesn't stop us from succeeding in Fx. I'm well aware of the limitations of retail Fx, and I still choose to participate. I do however feel it important to know the intricacies of the market structure...but I guess knowing it hasn't added any cash to my accounts!

One thing I do agree is that it's likely participation, and therefore daily Fx volumes will continue to increase, barring any disaster or overzealous regulations.
From a retail perspective, there looks to be a rise in the popularity of social trading sites (despite the awful etoro) and also brokers seem to be looking to advance their platform technology, and are consciously re-branding themselves to appear more like a legitimate investment vehicle rather than pictures of guys with laptops on big yachts!
So, in an attempt at a smooth segue from this debate, back to the original theme of the thread... I believe the increased participation should translate into more volumes and hopefully some decent action making Forex worthwhile for us!
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #463
  • Jan 13, 2016 11:20am Jan 13, 2016 11:20am
What's going on....
Trade fearless not careless...
Syed Mohsin Ali Profit This Month: -2,370
  • #464
  • Jan 17, 2016 1:01pm Jan 17, 2016 1:01pm
Quoting diceman555
{quote} what actually happens is they square there book ,complex algorithms send through orders if ther book falls outside of its restricted risk,but for most part our orders are equalled out within the brokerage
yes exactly, what I was basically saying is that our orders do make a difference.

we aren't artificial liquidity as some people say
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Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #465
  • Jan 19, 2016 4:30am Jan 19, 2016 4:30am
Quoting Cubbybgood
Bottom line is the best system in the world is not going to save you in the trading world.
Amen, brother!
Using the RobotFX EAs for a while https://www.robotfx.org/
  • #466
  • Jan 19, 2016 5:03am Jan 19, 2016 5:03am
Quoting trader34
A simple illustration: So, you buy 1 lot EU at 1.07. You sell at 1.08 for a nice profit. Congratulations! But...did you "win" anything? The party you bought from, bought 1 lot EU at 1.05. They sold to you for a profit. The party you sold your 1 lot to is buying at 1.08 because they have a buy and hold system on a huge account and will sell out at 1.09. And, the broker is happy, because he charged all 3 of you for each transaction. So, who "won" in this scenario? Everyone.
You can use "gain" if "win" sounds strange to you. For me it's a game, that's why I write win. As you said, I sold for a 'nice profit', so I won something. Congrats to me
Anyways, to be honest I have no idea where you're going with this example. It only has 3 parties and the broker, yes, all of them winning (apparently). How about the other few millions of traders that closed in loss, by either buying or selling, between 1.05 and 1.09 - this would have happen exactly when the happy trio was trading!?
Believe it or not, most of the traders DO lose in this dirty game. And their $$ goes to the 5% of the winners. Where else would it go?
Using the RobotFX EAs for a while https://www.robotfx.org/
  • #467
  • Jan 19, 2016 5:21am Jan 19, 2016 5:21am
Quoting wattaman
{quote} And their $$ goes to the 5% of the winners. Where else would it go?

If you had read the back and forth prior to that, you would understand the context. When someone claims that people "have to lose" to keep the market going, I have to call bullshit. Your choice of term for a profitable trade was not the point of the example I listed.

But, as for the above quoted text...again...read the little paragraph above the example I used.
Quote
When you close a trade for a win, it doesn't mean someone else has closed for a loss. You didn't take out someone's stop loss, and you didn't "beat" anyone.
When you profit from a trade, you are not taking money from losers. However many winning or losing trades occurred in the time it took you to profit is absolutely inconsequential to your trade. This is a decentralized market. You are only a taker of liquidity according to the quotes given by the LP of your broker. Money is not transferred to your account when another stops out.
I may be being pedantic but this idea that you are somehow profiting from the losses of others is just stupid.

Your trades are between you and your LP. Regardless of how many people are winning or losing trades at any moment, you are only being squared with your LP.

That was my point.

And I'm well aware that most lose this game. But I am also aware that fact has absolutely no bearing on how the market operates.
That was among my points earlier, when it was implied that we minnows are in any way important to the real interbank market from which our quotes are derived.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #468
  • Edited 6:21am Jan 19, 2016 6:08am | Edited 6:21am
Quoting trader34
{quote} If you had read the back and forth prior to that, you would understand the context. When someone claims that people "have to lose" to keep the market going, I have to call bullshit. Your choice of term for a profitable trade was not the point of the example I listed. But, as for the above quoted text...again...read the little paragraph above the example I used. {quote} When you profit from a trade, you are not taking money from losers. However many winning or losing trades occurred in the time it took you to profit is absolutely inconsequential...
==> "When you profit from a trade, you are not taking money from losers."

Let's look at the big picture ...

The winners of today become the losers of tomorrow and ever fewer losers may become winners to replace the defunct winners that have joined the rank of the losers. A requirement is that new traders have to constantly join the game. They are the fuel of the dwindling spiral. It will continue to spin downward as long as new players come in-- incidentally this explains why the not so ethical but ever so commercial calls to "place bets at the casino" - "the water is fine, come on for a swim" - is always loud and clear; a forex brokerage business is obscenely profitable.
Who does really profit long term?; it's the "house" - brokers and anyone "selling shovels to the gold diggers" - in the long term ALL the money goes to them.
Spot retail forex trading is simply a wealth redistribution system that is temporary "in the long term". Eventually, all the customer funds are surrendered to the "casino".
  • #469
  • Jan 19, 2016 7:25am Jan 19, 2016 7:25am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ==> "When you profit from a trade, you are not taking money from losers." Let's look at the big picture ... The winners of today become the losers of tomorrow and ever fewer losers may become winners to replace the defunct winners that have joined the rank of the losers. A requirement is that new traders have to constantly join the game. They are the fuel of the dwindling spiral. It will continue to spin downward as long as new players come in-- incidentally this explains why the not so ethical but ever so commercial calls to "place bets...

I certainly agree the only ones who really profit all the time are the brokers. This industry was built for brokers to profit.
Barring that is, any SNB type event where their real handling of orders comes to light.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #470
  • Jan 19, 2016 7:43am Jan 19, 2016 7:43am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ==> "When you profit from a trade, you are not taking money from losers." Let's look at the big picture ... The winners of today become the losers of tomorrow and ever fewer losers may become winners to replace the defunct winners that have joined the rank of the losers. A requirement is that new traders have to constantly join the game. They are the fuel of the dwindling spiral. It will continue to spin downward as long as new players come in-- incidentally this explains why the not so ethical but ever so commercial calls to "place bets...
Absolutely NOT the case. The house can be beaten, if you play the right game, and place the right bets.

Watch the movie 21, or read the book, "Bringing Down the House".
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #471
  • Jan 19, 2016 7:57am Jan 19, 2016 7:57am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Absolutely NOT the case. The house can be beaten, if you play the right game, and place the right bets. Watch the movie 21, or read the book, "Bringing Down the House".
you forgot to add ", or stop being a sour cunt with no life". Maybe it was implied, but I don't think subtlety is one of this future suicides strengths.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #472
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:13am Jan 19, 2016 8:13am
s
Quoting Mingary
{quote} . Spot retail forex trading is simply a wealth redistribution system that is temporary "in the long term". Eventually, all the customer funds are surrendered to the "casino".
Interesting, but you are righong... The monetary system meaning your retirements funds and penaion plans and small businesses and companies you work for are by and part the victems of the pyrmid scam which essentially happens to be... The way we function in the "developed" societies... Watch closely as tye defaults happen in the next few years... Who buys up the assets? Well not the borrowers

If you ever make it out of your old peoples basement you'll find thay this "forex" world is just the ticker tape of the "real" world. or could we do that the other way around.. Some real people have to live in it and survive in it.ya know, with work! But not Mingary.. Hell still be here saving us from fresh air and any growth

Maybe you could start your own service;

Inserted Video
Time hides Nothing
  • #473
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:18am Jan 19, 2016 8:18am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} you forgot to add ", or stop being a sour cunt with no life". Maybe it was implied, but I don't think subtlety is one of this future suicides strengths.
It's funny, for awhile there he was actually trying to trade! Now the poor bloke is back to this.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #474
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:20am Jan 19, 2016 8:20am
Quote
Is forex Trading Worth it? If so, why?



It all depends on your perspective. Days, weeks, months, years spend in front of your computer screens comes with a high costs to your social life. Sure you can be very profitable, don't believe anyone who says you can't make 30, 40 % yearly gains (my average 9 year track record is 44,1 % gain per year), well realistically it's nearly impossible if you're managing big hedge fund account where liquidity limitations and very limited margin come into play, on small retail account it's doable. But money isn't everything life has to offer. If you want to be in top 5 % forex traders you need to live and breath the markets. You dream about interest rates decisions, you wake up in the middle of the night, checking your open positions... I don't know. If I look back I would prefer a regular job in good working environment, minimum stress and average wage over daily forex trading. BUT work relations in my regular job soured, sallary went south to the point I was making more money as part time forex trader as in regular job and then came sociopathic maniac reincarnated as my boss. At that point I've send everyone to hell, resigned and never looked back.
  • #475
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:23am Jan 19, 2016 8:23am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} It's funny, for awhile there he was actually trying to trade! Now the poor bloke is back to this.
So what are you doing?

Just curious... Back to something better im assuming
Time hides Nothing
  • #476
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:25am Jan 19, 2016 8:25am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Just curious {quote} So what are you doing?
Looking at charts. I wait for alerts on my trend following systems of course. In a ranging market I place the limit orders for the day and let the market decide what it is going to do.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #477
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:45am Jan 19, 2016 8:45am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Looking at charts. I wait for alerts on my trend following systems of course. In a ranging market I place the limit orders for the day and let the market decide what it is going to do.
/end thread
Time hides Nothing
  • #478
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:49am Jan 19, 2016 8:49am
well i guess you know Mingary and the Market THAT well

sorry to be a dick, just balancing the equation
Time hides Nothing
  • #479
  • Jan 19, 2016 8:59am Jan 19, 2016 8:59am
Quoting Tom81
{quote} It all depends on your perspective. Days, weeks, months, years spend in front of your computer screens comes with a high costs to your social life. Sure you can be very profitable, don't believe anyone who says you can't make 30, 40 % yearly gains (my average 9 year track record is 44,1 % gain per year), well realistically it's nearly impossible if you're managing big hedge fund account where liquidity limitations and very limited margin come into play, on small retail account it's doable. But money isn't everything life has to offer. If...
I would give ANYTHING NOT to be in a day job micromanaged by an incompetent boss, backstabbed by loser co-workers, have to beg for vacation time and time off just to see doctors and at the end of the year have to report everything that you have done for the WHOLE entire year because nobody sees or gives a shit about your work and all for just a 3% raise because no matter how well you did in your job, the highest rating that they are willing to give you is "Meet Expectation" because "Exceed Expectation" would mean they would have to promote you and they never would want to no matter how hard you worked.

NO I would rather DIE than go back to such "work environment" no matter how stable the salary is. I thank God EVERYDAY for the existence of Forex Trading or any electronic trading opportunities where I can be my own boss and NEVER have to answer to ANYONE but myself. I answer to myself whether I screw up or succeed. Nobody to please, nobody to watch out for, no NOTHING, just me and the markets!! I pay for my own salary and the amount of raise that I have rightfully earned and I take a vacation or break whenever *I* want to and need to.

Is Forex Trading worth it? Well do you think Freedom and Dignity is worth it? True money isn't everything that life has to offer but if I've put in the effort and good effort, I should damn well be compensated with money cuz that's the only thing that counts in this world nowadays!!!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #480
  • Jan 19, 2016 9:08am Jan 19, 2016 9:08am
Quoting CindyXXXX
s{quote} Interesting, but you are righong... The monetary system meaning your retirements funds and penaion plans and small businesses and companies you work for are by and part the victems of the pyrmid scam which essentially happens to be... The way we function in the "developed" societies... Watch closely as tye defaults happen in the next few years... Who buys up the assets? Well not the borrowers If you ever make it out of your old peoples basement you'll find thay this "forex" world is just the ticker tape of the "real" world. or could we...
The retail forex trading dowward spiral spins much faster than the one for retirement funds and pension plan.
The retail forex sucking sound is very loud ...
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