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  • #1,041
  • Jan 6, 2016 3:04am Jan 6, 2016 3:04am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} "the required info"? If you're looking for a consistent magic bullet source of "required info" in order for you to avoid risky trades, you won't find it. Even if such a source is found and shared here, its magic bullet quality will be lost soon enough. I would advise that you stop looking and focus instead on continually checking whether your method or edge still works for you and is robust in all market conditions. (Unless, of course, you actually TRADE the NEWs, in which case you should go to one of the many fundamental analysis threads...

I think the two biggest mistakes for traders:

* Amateur trader: Fail to cut loss quick enough.
* Professional trader: Fail to let profit run long enough.
  • #1,042
  • Jan 6, 2016 3:35am Jan 6, 2016 3:35am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} "the required info"? If you're looking for a consistent magic bullet source of "required info" in order for you to avoid risky trades, you won't find it. Even if such a source is found and shared here, its magic bullet quality will be lost soon enough. I would advise that you stop looking and focus instead on continually checking whether your method or edge still works for you and is robust in all market conditions. (Unless, of course, you actually TRADE the NEWs, in which case you should go to one of the many fundamental analysis threads...
Wait, how do they trade the news then? And how is it different from the way the retail traders trade them?
  • #1,043
  • Jan 6, 2016 4:09am Jan 6, 2016 4:09am
Quoting xtrade_vn
{quote} I think the two biggest mistakes for traders: * Amateur trader: Fail to cut loss quick enough. * Professional trader: Fail to let profit run long enough.


I have to respectfully disagree with your premise.

I offer you the following thought bites for y'all to chew on before you go to bed tonight.
1. "Failing to cut loss quick enough" is a big mistake for ALL traders, regardless if you're amateur or professional.
2. "Failing to let profit run long enough" can actually be a strength and not a weakness.

I suspect the 2nd statement may be controversial to a lot of traders here. Annoyingly (to some members here), I will refrain from having to prove such nebulous concepts and go back to my trading.

Quoting merquise
{quote} Wait, how do they trade the news then? And how is it different from the way the retail traders trade them?
A lot of retail traders (and I don't care if I'm wrong about this) seem to think price "should" move in the direction of what the news implies. And they get annoyed if/when price doesn't do what they think it "should" do.

Surviving bank traders (where I come from anyway) spend time hunting stops or (when trading directionally) are savvy enough to take into account the perceived strength of nearby order clusters. The content of the news release itself (along with its implications) isn't really all that important.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,044
  • Jan 6, 2016 4:33am Jan 6, 2016 4:33am
Quoting skenobi
A lot of retail traders (and I don't care if I'm wrong about this) seem to think price "should" move in the direction of what the news implies. And they get annoyed if/when price doesn't do what they think it "should" do. Surviving bank traders (where I come from anyway) spend time hunting stops or (when trading directionally) are savvy enough to take into account the perceived strength of nearby order clusters. The content of the news release itself (along with its implications) isn't really all that important.
Pretty much truth yes..even I am astound sometimes why the price didn't move in the desired direction even though the news should confirm that, printing a strong number that would indicate it.. All I can think of is that the news have been accounted for in the price long before it was released..
  • #1,045
  • Jan 6, 2016 7:54am Jan 6, 2016 7:54am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Surviving bank traders (where I come from anyway) spend time hunting stops or (when trading directionally) are savvy enough to take into account the perceived strength of nearby order clusters. The content of the news release itself (along with its implications) isn't really all that important..

I like your quote here:

"Surviving bank traders (where I come from anyway) spend time hunting stops or (when trading directionally) are savvy enough to take into account the perceived strength of nearby order clusters. The content of the news release itself (along with its implications) isn't really all that important."

And it makes me happy because i do not know how to read news ... except the time of news release.

Back to trading
  • #1,046
  • Jan 6, 2016 10:08am Jan 6, 2016 10:08am
Quoting xtrade_vn
{quote} I believe psychology is the final game. Happy trading all !
yes psychology it is very important factor in trading
  • #1,047
  • Jan 6, 2016 1:50pm Jan 6, 2016 1:50pm
Perhaps an experienced institutional trader can be of assistance in this.

When it comes to the amount of time it takes for an order in the spot FX market to be filled, that is the ECN-DMA realm, am I correct in assuming it will take longer for larger orders to be filled?

I was thinking about this and because FX orders being filled is a matter of liquidity, if I wanted to get say an order of 1 lot filled, am I right in saying that for a 50 lot order it will take longer to be executed as more liquidity becomes a factor in the amount of time it takes to match a buyer/seller to my order?

What kind of wait times can be expected when having a larger order size filled? By this I mean how long is a reasonable expectation to be filled on a 50 lot order, or perhaps even a 100 lot order?

I hope somebody here can understand the question I am asking and provide me with some insights on this, regarding the amount of time it can take to fill larger orders in the real market, and if I am indeed correct in my thinking that smaller orders are filled quicker than larger orders.

Thank you.
  • #1,048
  • Jan 6, 2016 4:59pm Jan 6, 2016 4:59pm
Quoting SaiLyfee
Perhaps an experienced institutional trader can be of assistance in this. When it comes to the amount of time it takes for an order in the spot FX market to be filled, that is the ECN-DMA realm, am I correct in assuming it will take longer for larger orders to be filled? I was thinking about this and because FX orders being filled is a matter of liquidity, if I wanted to get say an order of 1 lot filled, am I right in saying that for a 50 lot order it will take longer to be executed as more liquidity becomes a factor in the amount of time it takes...
It really depends on the brokers price streams and the platform you use.
MT4 is a top of book platform which means that if you eg buy 50 lots it will sweep everything until it fills 50 lots.
In those 50 lots could be 10 different price makers with all different amounts from 100k upwards so the time of execution will be slower.

If you are trading 50 lots consistently then MT4 may not be you platform choice and would look for a broker who can offer you institutional pricing whereby the price makers (banks) will stream larger sizes and your execution time will be cut.

Some will say the price is wider in larger amounts which is true but if you are buying 50 lots being executed from 10 banks then the chances of being slipped,
re-quoted or price rejection is a lot higher than from 1 bank.

I hope that answers your question
  • #1,049
  • Edited Jan 7, 2016 1:09am Jan 6, 2016 6:21pm | Edited Jan 7, 2016 1:09am
lasty answered well.

I'm gonna add some bank trader perspective here as well.

1. Bank traders deal in non-standard amounts of real money, not lots of imaginary sizes.

2. The real money equivalent of 100 lots of, say, USDJPY, is 10 million USD. In the institutional world, 10 million of anything should clear within seconds if not a split second.

3. If a retail trader actually has the sophistication to trade 100 lots, then perhaps he shouldn't really be executing thru a standard retail broker.

4. lasty's answer was great, but the only real way for a retail trader to know if his retail broker can clear 100 lots to his satisfaction is to actually try the trade.

Good luck!
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,050
  • Jan 7, 2016 3:58am Jan 7, 2016 3:58am
Quoting skenobi
3. If a retail trader actually has the sophistication to trade 100 lots, then perhaps he shouldn't really be executing thru a standard retail broker.
Great post: What are the options for successful traders then which trade higher ticket sizes?
  • #1,051
  • Jan 8, 2016 2:43am Jan 8, 2016 2:43am
Quoting thokthok
{quote} Great post: What are the options for successful traders then which trade higher ticket sizes?
I'm no "successful" trader.. so no recommendations from me. I prefer to do my own research and due diligence, so if things go down the toilet, I have no one to blame but myself.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,052
  • Jan 9, 2016 10:18am Jan 9, 2016 10:18am
skenobi and jacobfordfx,

have you guys face problems when you run stop and you fail to make it go back to the direction you want?
example, you thinking to short, and you see there order up there, and it is in the range that you can run stop them, and then you long to the price, but when you try to short down, there a support or someone keep buying and try to push the price up.
as above scenario ever happens before? IF yes, what would you do?

and when you work in the bank, how many hours you are in trading/market maker?
how many working hours for one day?

Thanks.
  • #1,053
  • Jan 9, 2016 10:59am Jan 9, 2016 10:59am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} I'm no "successful" trader.. so no recommendations from me. I prefer to do my own research and due diligence, so if things go down the toilet, I have no one to blame but myself.

BIG LIKE
  • #1,054
  • Jan 9, 2016 11:02am Jan 9, 2016 11:02am
Quoting skenobi
lasty answered well. I'm gonna add some bank trader perspective here as well. 1. Bank traders deal in non-standard amounts of real money, not lots of imaginary sizes. 2. The real money equivalent of 100 lots of, say, USDJPY, is 10 million USD. In the institutional world, 10 million of anything should clear within seconds if not a split second. 3. If a retail trader actually has the sophistication to trade 100 lots, then perhaps he shouldn't really be executing thru a standard retail broker. 4. lasty's answer was great, but the only real way for...

i like this. In my mind, i would never think my orders ever touches the interbank flow. if it does, it is less than a sand on the beach.
  • #1,055
  • Jan 12, 2016 9:02am Jan 12, 2016 9:02am
Quoting warbee
skenobi and jacobfordfx, have you guys face problems when you run stop and you fail to make it go back to the direction you want? example, you thinking to short, and you see there order up there, and it is in the range that you can run stop them, and then you long to the price, but when you try to short down, there a support or someone keep buying and try to push the price up. as above scenario ever happens before? IF yes, what would you do?
If I see something I don't understand, I step aside, or cut any affected positions. Other traders will have their own preferences.

Quoting warbee
and when you work in the bank, how many hours you are in trading/market maker? how many working hours for one day? Thanks.
It varies. For more color to the answer, read the thread. It's only been 53 pages.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,056
  • Jan 13, 2016 11:18am Jan 13, 2016 11:18am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} If I see something I don't understand, I step aside, or cut any affected positions. Other traders will have their own preferences. {quote} It varies. For more color to the answer, read the thread. It's only been 53 pages.
Will the understanding of these banker's job help you or threaten you? Do we need to really understand how F1 Car Racer drives his car in order to drive our small car in the small village road? Yes it is a total different game for one who is ready to take it.... So keep learning and don't forget the reason why you are learning...CHEERS
  • #1,057
  • Jan 13, 2016 2:28pm Jan 13, 2016 2:28pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} If I see something I don't understand, I step aside, or cut any affected positions. Other traders will have their own preferences. {quote}
Hi skenobi

I don't think that your trading produced the same results during your first day compared to now. Could you please explain/describe how the learning curve felt like from the beginning (very first days/weeks/months), then later and also now?
Just write it from your heart please.
(Not bullshitting you, I'm honestly interested)

Thnx
bg_sunny
Demo only
  • #1,058
  • Jan 13, 2016 8:37pm Jan 13, 2016 8:37pm
Quoting xtrade_vn
{quote} Will the understanding of these banker's job help you or threaten you?
Neither. For more color to this answer, I think you will find it in the first 5 pages of this thread.

Quoting xtrade_vn
Do we need to really understand how F1 Car Racer drives his car in order to drive our small car in the small village road?
My two cents (because others will have their own opinions, naturally): This is not really a valid comparison, is it? The financial markets isn't exactly a small village road.

But anyway, to answer your question directly: No.

Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} Hi skenobi I don't think that your trading produced the same results during your first day compared to now.
It doesn't matter to me if it has or hasn't. I accepted that the market continually evolves into a different animal every few years, and we all have to adapt or have bad days.

Quoting bg_sunny
Could you please explain/describe how the learning curve felt like from the beginning (very first days/weeks/months), then later and also now?
1. It's been 20 years (plus a few months), mate. Doing a post mortem of what happened 20 years ago is not a very useful exercise for me, so I regret I must decline your request.

2. Experience varies for each bank trader. Some juniors take to trading like ducks to water and were allowed to succeed at their own pace. Some others (myself included) were lucky to have mentors at key stages of their career development. A case of being in the right place, at the right time. So any explanation or description I care to give of the early "learning curve" will not be representative of the learning curve of the "average" surviving bank trader.

3. As for the learning curve "later and also now", I'm always learning. The learning never stops because the market never stops evolving.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,059
  • Edited 2:43am Jan 14, 2016 2:13am | Edited 2:43am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} This is what I do when I see other people's stops: I run them. When I run stops, I don't use stops on those runs, because my targets are usually less than say 20 pips for a short term kill. Some guys go for more, I guess I'm not that greedy. I do use mental stops however in case my runs go sour. That takes discipline which the Banks pay me big bucks for. When I run stops, trend direction is always at the back of my mind, but not a factor because, as I've implied, my targets are very short term. I don't use technical tools other than my...
You aren't implying you have enough capital to push the market around, are you? You mean you are joining in with others who are intending to run stops, and as a whole, you can accomplish this?


Say you are running sell stops, are you short 10 pips above those stops with buy limits where the stops will be?

This allows you to find liquidity for your take profit (sell stops running into your buy limits)? Do you also speculate the other direction after stops are hit, or do you mostly use the stop liquidity to take profit on your short? And then typically those who were stopped out will hit the bid at market price and drive the market back up, but 99% of the time this will be at a worse price.

I for one know that when I'm stopped out, price tends to reverse. So I give it ONE more go, and hit the market price a few pips away from where I was stopped. I then place another stop loss just below/above the original stop run low/high.

As as I've become a better trader, I can tell where stops are likely placed at, and just wait to enter when price reaches that level. Of course, there are times when the same support level is stop run 3-5 times before the "true reversal" (not just the little reversals in between, also known as accumulation/distribution.. or consolidation phase). This is why I tend to place my stop loss far more than just 3-5 pips below "support". Occasionally stop runs are deep, but usually they are shallow.

The chart I linked is the perfect example of multiple "shallow" stop runs.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #1,060
  • Jan 14, 2016 2:39am Jan 14, 2016 2:39am
Quoting xtrade_vn
{quote} Will the understanding of these banker's job help you or threaten you? Do we need to really understand how F1 Car Racer drives his car in order to drive our small car in the small village road? Yes it is a total different game for one who is ready to take it.... So keep learning and don't forget the reason why you are learning...CHEERS
FX is a decentralized market and the dealers at the large banks have some advantages (size, info, etc.). If you learn how they think and act could be only beneficial for you. At least it is for me.
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