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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #1,021
  • Dec 5, 2015 8:12am Dec 5, 2015 8:12am
Quoting skyway
{quote} I wouldn't call them 'experts', I believe they will not call themselves that but I could be wrong.
In all modesty, I wouldn't call someone like me an expert either. "Expert" is something we call other people and not ourselves, and I'm pretty stingy myself when it comes to attributing "expertise".

But I do believe in "experience", and experience is the only thing I (and others like me) offer in this thread. In my case, it's experience colored by cultural nuances peculiar to institutional traders in the Asia Pacific region. Every bank trader who comes on this thread will bring his own experience which may differ from each other, albeit slightly.

Quoting skyway
These guys had employment as institutional traders. It's great they share the other side of the story with us.
Glad you approve.

Quoting skyway
My question to them is this - how much 'advantage' does it give them in their current pursuit as retail traders, assume they are, when compared to most of us without this background and did this 'advantage' materialise or not ?
Already answered within (perhaps) the first 10 pages of this thread. Bottomline answer to the "was it advantageous" question: "YMMV, but still not much". But that's just me.


Quoting skyway
I did not read the thread so maybe this q was asked earlier.
If you haven't read it, you should. It's only been 50 or so pages, and doesn't take more than a weekend to digest.

Quoting skyway
I ask because my impression is they are no more than experienced, well paid, consumate marketers,
Those are sales traders. They deal with corporate customers and the best usually still have their jobs.

Quoting skyway
licenced clearing clerks,
Those would be the junior traders.

Quoting skyway
I could be wrong again.
It won't be the first time, but that's ok. As long as you're right more times than you're wrong AND you made money besides.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,022
  • Dec 23, 2015 2:19am Dec 23, 2015 2:19am
[quote=skenobi;8628107]{quote} In all modesty, I wouldn't call someone like me an expert either. "Expert" is something we call other people and not ourselves, and I'm pretty stingy myself when it comes to attributing "expertise". But I do believe in "experience", and experience is the only thing I (and others like me) offer in this thread. In my case, it's experience colored by cultural nuances peculiar to institutional traders in the Asia Pacific region. Every bank trader who comes on this thread will

Hi skenobi thanks for your useful inputs.

1. I wondered, who picks the instrument to trade for a trader. Do they themselves or are they just told to trade something specific at "best price"?
2. Do you use time stops or only price?
3. Do you believe equilibrium?

Regards
  • #1,023
  • Dec 28, 2015 9:16am Dec 28, 2015 9:16am
Quoting alayinizAMK
1. I wondered, who picks the instrument to trade for a trader. Do they themselves or are they just told to trade something specific at "best price"?
Different banks do it differently. For more color, please read the thread. You should be able to find the answers in the first 10-20 pages.

Quoting alayinizAMK
2. Do you use time stops or only price?
Speaking for myself, I use whatever that makes me money.

Quoting alayinizAMK
3. Do you believe equilibrium? Regards
AFAIAC, every time a trade is confirmed (in the institutional world, not the retail one) by willing counterparties in all market conditions (e.g. even when price widens or spikes during news events), "equilibrium" has occurred.

If you think that me having this opinion means that I "believe" in equilibrium, then that's up to you.

DISCLAIMER: I suspect that this last opinion above may be controversial to some readers here. I have to caution these readers that I'm not terribly interested in convincing anyone I'm right. As I may have implied before, I don't depend on my personal "beliefs" in nebulous concepts (like "equilibrium") to make me any money.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,024
  • Dec 28, 2015 8:29pm Dec 28, 2015 8:29pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Did you mean you're a retail trader with direct market access with a bank at which you happen to have a job? {quote} If you're a retail trader, then your counterparty is whatever broker that is making prices to you and at which you have your margin account. {quote} If Deutsche is your broker, and if 1.15 is the PREVAILING market rate (i.e. there are plenty of similar orders at such levels), then sure PERHAPS you would've gotten filled at 1.15. The problem arises when 1.15 may be the only price in the market and/or Deutsche is one of very...

It's not a big deal at all, really. I know traders who have access to all sorts of order book information and can't make money for shit. I also know traders (former institutionals like me and even some retail traders) who have traded blind all their careers (i.e. WITHOUT such information) and can still make decent money just by looking at how price behaves in the vicinity of key support and resistance levels.

I LIKE THIS QUOTE
  • #1,025
  • Edited 1:08am Dec 30, 2015 12:22am | Edited 1:08am
Gentlemen, I have been going back and looking at SNB event of this January.

My main focus is to find out tools which in future can hint at any such event and potentially alert the retail trader.

Look at this news article for example:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/franc-eu...iling/41210794
This was posted on Jan 12. 3 days before the Armageddon.

Also, the ducascopy, one of the swiss brokers says that they anticipated such a move by swiss bank and adjusted leverage accordingly 4 months ago.
https://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/zh/a...s/?news=200210

I believe institution traders have access to all kind of analyst report and such. Which could in theory at-least warn the trader that there is a SNB is thinking of ending the EURCHF peg.


What tools (detailed analyst reports to word of the street) are available to retail traders. This can be free or paid, but is available and accessible to the retail trader?

Edit: I am aware of fxstreet, dailyfx etc. But signal to noise ratio is tremendously low. I am not looking for news but targeted reports.
  • #1,026
  • Edited 2:17am Dec 30, 2015 1:16am | Edited 2:17am
Quoting thokthok
Gentlemen, I have been going back and looking at SNB event of this January. My main focus is to find out tools which in future can hint at any such event and potentially alert the retail trader. Look at this news article for example: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/franc-eu...iling/41210794 This was posted on Jan 12. 3 days before the Armageddon. Also, the ducascopy, one of the swiss brokers says that they anticipated such a move by swiss bank and adjusted leverage accordingly 4 months ago. https://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/zh/a...s/?news=200210...
millinery terminology, yes low(EDIT). signal to noise ratio is tremendously low, i.e actual target/signal is loss in noise.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #1,027
  • Dec 30, 2015 1:44am Dec 30, 2015 1:44am
Quoting priceaction1
{quote} millinery terminology, but it is actually high. signal to noise ratio is tremendously high, i.e actual target/signal is loss in noise.
Can you please recheck. I think I have got it right

this is from wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio

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  • #1,028
  • Dec 30, 2015 2:14am Dec 30, 2015 2:14am
yes, signal to noise ratio is low so actual signal loss in noise
normally we want high ratio to have a good signal, i n this case it is up side down you are correct.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #1,029
  • Dec 31, 2015 8:50am Dec 31, 2015 8:50am
What charts do big institutions and the big boys pay attention to the most? m5 charts? m15 charts? H1 charts?, D1 Charts? 4H charts, Monthly charts? Thanks in advance
  • #1,030
  • Jan 1, 2016 9:28am Jan 1, 2016 9:28am
Not sure if this was asked yet, but what was the biggest mistrade or f'up you guys witnessed. While working for a Swiss Bank in 2001, I had to clear a position within one of our nostro accounts. We were short 7 Shares of the Zweig Dimena fund... Those who have been around the industry should be aware. Anyway the NAV on this fund was around USD 1/4 mil. After about two days of intenal investigations, we found out that two of our clients basically closed there accounts after a few mistrades. The position was leveled out and nobody chased our "ex-clients". I kept asking myself if there was some sort of foul play but was never able to find an answer.

I also remember quite a few mistrades (execution desk selling rather than buying) and they would just leave their positions open hoping for profit. All win/losses were booked on a few seperate internal accounts and at the end of the year, if there was any cash on it, it was simply used as part of their bonuses. Yes, no bull $hit at all here!

Obviously this no longer happens but I'm sure therre is plenty of other shifty things going on...
When trading: "Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water."
  • #1,031
  • Jan 2, 2016 5:00am Jan 2, 2016 5:00am
One last question. This may be a noob question but my question is, when big sellers exit their sell trades, can that cause the price to go up and if big buyers exit their buy trades can that cause the market to drop? Thanks for all your help
  • #1,032
  • Jan 3, 2016 9:04pm Jan 3, 2016 9:04pm
Quoting thokthok
I believe institution traders have access to all kind of analyst report and such.
"Access" is over-rated. Any armchair analyst with no skin in the game can make forecast reports.

Quoting thokthok
Which could in theory at-least warn the trader that there is a SNB is thinking of ending the EURCHF peg.
You need to be at least a fly on the wall of the SNB committee meeting room for you to really know such things. A peg is bound to be unpegged, regardless whether the so-called "warning" came 1 year before or even 10 days before. Instead of spending pointless hours pouring thru 3rd party analyst reports on something nobody can consistently predict, why not STOP trading pegged currency pairs and move on to other pairs?

Just sayin'.

Quoting sharingan9
What charts do big institutions and the big boys pay attention to the most? m5 charts? m15 charts? H1 charts?, D1 Charts? 4H charts, Monthly charts? Thanks in advance
We trade all kinds of TFs. For more color to the answer, read the thread. It takes less than a weekend.

Quoting sharingan9
One last question. This may be a noob question but my question is, when big sellers exit their sell trades, can that cause the price to go up and if big buyers exit their buy trades can that cause the market to drop? Thanks for all your help
You can even think of it this way:
When big sellers exit their sell trades (i.e. they become buyers), there will be counterparties (i.e. new sellers) taking the other side of these trades, right? If the force is equal, why should price even go up? Shouldn't it go sideways?

(Personally, I don't know the answers to any of the above questions, simply because I don't want to waste time finding out those answers. I only care what price is doing right now.)

Do you now see the pointlessness of thinking in terms of big sellers and big buyers? As if knowing who or what they are even matter?

Hope the above elevates your thinking.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,033
  • Jan 4, 2016 6:35pm Jan 4, 2016 6:35pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} "Access" is over-rated. Any armchair analyst with no skin in the game can make forecast reports. {quote} You need to be at least a fly on the wall of the SNB committee meeting room for you to really know such things. A peg is bound to be unpegged, regardless whether the so-called "warning" came 1 year before or even 10 days before. Instead of spending pointless hours pouring thru 3rd party analyst reports on something nobody can consistently predict, why not STOP trading pegged currency pairs and move on to other pairs? Just sayin'. {quote}...
Thanks. I totally agree with point about pegged currencies.

With regards to the market analysis, I have found some interesting blogs. Also, almost every broker now a days seems to have an analysis section. You can have your pick.

To complement analysis, I personally find that it would be wise to have a live news/market commentary service.
Would you have any comments about FXWW or Ransquawk? Or perhaps we should just keep streaming Bloomberg?

May I intrude and ask what do you use personally?
  • #1,034
  • Jan 5, 2016 12:36am Jan 5, 2016 12:36am
Quoting thokthok
{quote} Thanks. I totally agree with point about pegged currencies. With regards to the market analysis, I have found some interesting blogs. Also, almost every broker now a days seems to have an analysis section. You can have your pick. To complement analysis, I personally find that it would be wise to have a live news/market commentary service. Would you have any comments about FXWW or Ransquawk? Or perhaps we should just keep streaming Bloomberg?...

I don't understand news... so i limit my knowledge within the charts itself and the calendar in FF to know when to expect the volatility.
  • #1,035
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:13am Jan 5, 2016 3:13am
Quoting thokthok
{quote} Thanks. I totally agree with point about pegged currencies. With regards to the market analysis, I have found some interesting blogs.
If reading blogs makes you money, then I sincerely wish you happy reading. I don't mean to sound flippant. It's just that I usually have no time to regularly follow blogs.

Quoting thokthok
Also, almost every broker now a days seems to have an analysis section. You can have your pick.
Thanks, but no thanks. I do my own analysis.

Quoting thokthok
To complement analysis, I personally find that it would be wise to have a live news/market commentary service.
Wise for some, if it makes them money. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Quoting thokthok
Would you have any comments about FXWW or Ransquawk? Or perhaps we should just keep streaming Bloomberg?
I don't use paid services. And I got rid of my Bloomberg crutch a while back.

Quoting thokthok
May I intrude and ask what do you use personally?
"use personally" for what? For news and commentary? These days I only have my Twitter feed of tweeters I follow.

Quoting xtrade_vn
{quote} I don't understand news... so i limit my knowledge within the charts itself and the calendar in FF to know when to expect the volatility.
You don't have to stop reading the news. It can still add color to anyone's understanding of markets. Just don't take it as Gospel that if price moves to particular stimuli now (as reported in the news), it will move similarly in future. And definitely don't use News for any supposed predictive qualities.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,036
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:29am Jan 5, 2016 3:29am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} If reading blogs makes you money, then I sincerely wish you happy reading. I don't mean to sound flippant. It's just that I usually have no time to regularly follow blogs. {quote} Thanks, but no thanks. I do my own analysis. {quote} Wise for some, if it makes them money. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. {quote} I don't use paid services. And I got rid of my Bloomberg crutch a while back. {quote} "use personally" for what? For news and commentary? These days I only have my Twitter feed of tweeters I follow. {quote} You don't...
Thanks skenobi... i must admit my understanding so limited and i would better let my brain free to react to the market structure properly.
I also admit that i am only a short term trader.
  • #1,037
  • Jan 5, 2016 8:26pm Jan 5, 2016 8:26pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} If reading blogs makes you money, then I sincerely wish you happy reading. I don't mean to sound flippant. It's just that I usually have no time to regularly follow blogs. {quote} Thanks, but no thanks. I do my own analysis. {quote} Wise for some, if it makes them money. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. {quote} I don't use paid services. And I got rid of my Bloomberg crutch a while back. {quote} "use personally" for what? For news and commentary? These days I only have my Twitter feed of tweeters I follow. {quote} You don't...
Thanks for detailed reply. Twitter is awesome suggestion. I will definitely look in to it. Blogs are kind of similar just a bit longer-form with charts and elegant text formatting.

My main reason to look in to these news services and analysis reports is that I am not blatantly going in to a very risky trade which could have been avoided if I just had the required info.
  • #1,038
  • Jan 5, 2016 8:31pm Jan 5, 2016 8:31pm
"The best monies I ever made were the losses I never had""
@skenobi: Just read this in your profile. Loved the quote.
This is what I want to do. Avoid losses. And I am just looking in to resource which will help me do that by avoiding some bigger trade mistakes.
  • #1,039
  • Jan 6, 2016 12:55am Jan 6, 2016 12:55am
Quoting thokthok
My main reason to look in to these news services and analysis reports is that I am not blatantly going in to a very risky trade which could have been avoided if I just had the required info.
"the required info"? If you're looking for a consistent magic bullet source of "required info" in order for you to avoid risky trades, you won't find it. Even if such a source is found and shared here, its magic bullet quality will be lost soon enough.

I would advise that you stop looking and focus instead on continually checking whether your method or edge still works for you and is robust in all market conditions.

(Unless, of course, you actually TRADE the NEWs, in which case you should go to one of the many fundamental analysis threads here on the Factory for more help. Speaking for myself, bank traders where I come from don't trade the news the way retail traders do.)

Quoting thokthok
This is what I want to do. Avoid losses. And I am just looking in to resource which will help me do that by avoiding some bigger trade mistakes.
I do not believe there is any third party resource that can help you to avoid big mistakes. But I wish you luck finding it tho.

To me, the best way for you to avoid more mistakes is to learn from your previous ones.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #1,040
  • Jan 6, 2016 12:57am Jan 6, 2016 12:57am
Quoting thokthok
"The best monies I ever made were the losses I never had"" @skenobi: Just read this in your profile. Loved the quote. This is what I want to do. Avoid losses. And I am just looking in to resource which will help me do that by avoiding some bigger trade mistakes.
I believe psychology is the final game. Happy trading all !
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