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What would you do with a working strategy, but need capital?

  • #41
  • Jan 4, 2016 3:07pm Jan 4, 2016 3:07pm
Quoting skillz16
{quote} If you do not mind me asking, what percentage return a month do you usually hit on your EA's? If you do (and do not want to tell), then no worries.
I don't mind. I actually only look for 1-5% per month. The account size is large enough to support a decent living with relatively small returns. I made a killing in FOREX during the financial crisis so the EA's had a good head start. Risk is less than 0.1% per trade. It typically does really well first quarter, then drops down to about 1% during summer, small spike after then about 1% during winter. Those numbers are pretty close for both EA's. They have been running continuously since about 2007. So going on 9 years of use. I don't have any debt so it doesn't take a fortune for me to be comfortable.

On a side note, these are not metatrader EA's. These are stand alone programs I built to interface with my brokerage account. All of the calculations and trade management are done from my software. It's not that I don't think it can be done from metatrader, it's just that with all the work I put into it to make it stable and reliable, the last thing I wanted was even the remote possibility of someone illegally acquiring it. As someone who made a living from developing software, I get really picky about people taking advantage of my work. My software will actually only run on one CPU (based on the CPU serial number) and that value is encrypted via 128 bit encryption making it very hard to make it work if someone did take it. It would take an above average hacker to figure out how it does it.
  • #42
  • Jan 4, 2016 3:12pm Jan 4, 2016 3:12pm
Quoting gravitist
Normally I advise people NOT to trade, I personally found it a losing proposition. However, if you really feel you can make a go of it, then by all means do so. You stated that you're undercapitalized - save enough money to properly fund an account. The main cause of blowing accounts (IMHO) is traders using accounts that are way too small and taking risks that are way too large. A decent account should be at least $10-15K (again, IMHO) and risk should be limited to 0.5 to 1 % ( $50 to $100 per trade). Someone posted that demoing is a waste of time....
I've said I didn't want to go into the EAs discussion etc but ok, here goes..

trading is what you make of it. It is definitely not a get rich quick type of endeavor. Takes tremendous amount of time and other "resources" to just get a good grasp of things. Most people fail because of false expectations. So far I've invested over 3,5 years into this and I`m not planning to giving up anytime soon. By 3.5 years I mean every day 8-10 hours a day studying, testing and journaling... later on coding.

regarding demoing it is absolutely NOT a waste of time. I don't know what other way is to learn if not on demo. Regarding backtesting, that's the only way to show you how your system would perform. Backtest a certain period and afterwards do the fronttest for a month or so, depends on the strategy to show what you can expect.

Regarding my EAs I don't use them on forex. I use them essentially on DAX or commodities, but DAX is my primary focus. The systems are currently being tested on my private VPS (which in my opinion is essential) when testing an EA. Other details were discussed in the post above (#39).
  • #43
  • Jan 4, 2016 9:28pm Jan 4, 2016 9:28pm
4-7% per month - boy that's sweet. Why don't you borrow a modest sum, let's say $25k? In 16 months with a 5% monthly return you could repay the loan+interest and have a $25k stake left over to trade. At the same monthly return in just 4 years, starting from $25k, you would be trading a stake near $0.25MM. It's always risky and ill-advised, imho, to borrow money to trade with - but if you would not take on this risk yourself, why should anyone else?
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #44
  • Jan 4, 2016 10:44pm Jan 4, 2016 10:44pm
Quoting Sandmann
Hi, The purpose of this thread is not a debate about different trading strategies or expert advisors. The sole purpose of why I created this thread is that I seek advice on what should be my next steps. So let me explain my story so far, I`ll make it as short as possible so I don't want to waste anyones time as that's our most valuable commodity ... so --> I've started trading 3,5 years ago. I've had my ups and downs, and about a year ago I've learned MQL4. I've did my 1st EA, then second and now I have several working EAs. I've rented a VPS where...
Definitely start with small capital and let i grow. Don't borrow any money mate.
Heck, $5000 is a nice starting point. Even $500 is fine just to get the ball rolling!
As previously mentioned capital size is not an issue these days as most brokers will allow you to trade with even $200 deposit.

You'll be sweet mate. Just remember no borrowing money bro!
  • #45
  • Jan 4, 2016 11:43pm Jan 4, 2016 11:43pm
Quoting Dimi.A
Just remember no borrowing money bro!
[Devil's Advocate] Hey, no riskit, no biscuit. If you have a killer business idea, why wouldn't you borrow money to give it a chance to rock n' roll? First consulting business I started got rolling off a small loan - $6k - I bought a desktop PC, a large-format plotter, and an AutoCAD license. Went to work & paid that loan back in the first year and have been making a living off that seed of a business for 20 years.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #46
  • Jan 5, 2016 1:05am Jan 5, 2016 1:05am
Quoting The Fool
4-7% per month - boy that's sweet. Why don't you borrow a modest sum, let's say $25k? In 16 months with a 5% monthly return you could repay the loan+interest and have a $25k stake left over to trade. At the same monthly return in just 4 years, starting from $25k, you would be trading a stake near $0.25MM. It's always risky and ill-advised, imho, to borrow money to trade with - but if you would not take on this risk yourself, why should anyone else?
That's certainly one of the options that I might take. Basically the options are narrowing down to three possible outcomes I'm leaning towards to... of course I still have few months until my testing is done but it's certainly good to brainstorm before the storm (or before the shit hits the fan) and that's the purpose of why I started this thread

1. Save the capital on my own (in few months I should have a few thousand to use) - most people here are in favor of this choice and I`m inclining to it myself
2. Use the track record and reach out to wealthy people around that might be interested (not including family)
3. Banks - I freaking hate banks, so this is the least favorable option

Again thanks for all the opinions everyone, appreciate it.
  • #47
  • Jan 5, 2016 1:22am Jan 5, 2016 1:22am
No offense, amigo, but you don't have a track record if you don't have any real gains. Money talks; bullshit walks.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #48
  • Jan 5, 2016 1:29am Jan 5, 2016 1:29am
Quoting Sandmann
Hi, The purpose of this thread is not a debate about different trading strategies or expert advisors. The sole purpose of why I created this thread is that I seek advice on what should be my next steps. So let me explain my story so far, I`ll make it as short as possible so I don't want to waste anyones time as that's our most valuable commodity ... so --> I've started trading 3,5 years ago. I've had my ups and downs, and about a year ago I've learned MQL4. I've did my 1st EA, then second and now I have several working EAs. I've rented a VPS where...
Have a look at my thread, it could give you some ideas...
Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication.
  • #49
  • Jan 5, 2016 2:05am Jan 5, 2016 2:05am
Quoting broketrader
{quote} Have a look at my thread, it could give you some ideas...
Great thread you got there... really inspirational, especially the timeline you use. I might start a similar thread with trade explorer myself once the testing phase is done.
  • #50
  • Jan 5, 2016 2:26am Jan 5, 2016 2:26am
Borrow money from bank , while living on government subsidy .
  • #51
  • Jan 5, 2016 2:27am Jan 5, 2016 2:27am
Quoting Sandmann
{quote} Great thread you got there... really inspirational, especially the timeline you use. I might start a similar thread with trade explorer myself once the testing phase is done.
Yes, what I wanted you to see is the cent account that I use. It allows you to multiply your account capital by 100 and this is what you could need to begin. Then after some months/years after having multiplied your account by x, you could switch back to a standard account, you see the idea ?
Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication.
  • #52
  • Jan 5, 2016 2:58am Jan 5, 2016 2:58am
Quoting broketrader
{quote} Yes, what I wanted you to see is the cent account that I use. It allows you to multiply your account capital by 100 and this is what you could need to begin. Then after some months/years after having multiplied your account by x, you could switch back to a standard account, you see the idea ?
Yes the idea is crystal clear... but what do you think is the difference between having it run on live nano account than on a demo account? The market is the same, the spread is the same and the EA does the same thing on demo as on real account. I`m not interfering with the EA, it does what it does on a private VPS and it produces the results I need... once I have the results/confidence in the system I'll move it on the real account. If I`m planning to trade it with my own money then I don't see a difference - maybe I`m wrong or missing something. The other thing is looking for investors - then a track record on real account would be needed...

What are your thoughts? why is a 100$ account better for testing than a demo account? I don't use martingale so I`m not looking to multiply the account by 100% in a month, all I`m looking for in an EA is consistent gains (quarterly) and minimum drawdowns
  • #53
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:00am Jan 5, 2016 3:00am
Quoting fifaman2009
Borrow money from bank , while living on government subsidy .
Now we're cooking

You have that kind of experience? If not, would you do it?

I`m afraid that government subsidy is not an option where I live...
  • #54
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:08am Jan 5, 2016 3:08am
Most common problem with forex - there is no long-term profitability. Lack of capital is not the real problem and it will never be. The same way you blow 1k, the exact same way you blow 100k. This is entirely broker agenda - convincing you that when you put 20k savings in a trading account you become a real trader and will trade better. Capital matters only in the context of a specific trading "system".
  • #55
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:13am Jan 5, 2016 3:13am
Quoting Sandmann
{quote} Yes the idea is crystal clear... but what do you think is the difference between having it run on live nano account than on a demo account? The market is the same, the spread is the same and the EA does the same thing on demo as on real account. I`m not interfering with the EA, it does what it does on a private VPS and it produces the results I need... once I have the results/confidence in the system I'll move it on the real account. If I`m planning to trade it with my own money then I don't see a difference - maybe I`m wrong or missing...
Personally I prefer having results from a nano real account than from a demo account. What if after having spent a year you go live and don't get the same kind of results ? Doubt comes in, you don't know if it is because the market has changed radically or if it is because the real account gives slight different trading conditions... In either case, your past year demo trading is gone and you find yourself in an unpleasant position...
Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication.
  • #56
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:38am Jan 5, 2016 3:38am
If your strategy works but you just need capital then go and trade it with a firm like Darwinex. They allocate E500,000 a month to the top 16 traders and if your strategy works as you say then it would definately get funded. If it didnt then you don't lose anything.
I don't work for them but have been watching how they work for a while.
  • #57
  • Jan 5, 2016 3:39am Jan 5, 2016 3:39am
Quoting feline207
Most common problem with forex - there is no long-term profitability.
Absolutely not agree

Most common problem with forex - there is no EASY long-term profitability.
  • #58
  • Jan 5, 2016 4:08am Jan 5, 2016 4:08am
Quoting the_sniper
{quote} Absolutely not agree Most common problem with forex - there is no EASY long-term profitability.
So you absolutely not agree and then say the same thing. I said most common problem. You should not get everything literally and also read whole posts in context and not focus on the first three words. But who am I to judge, I dont have skyscrappers and yachts on my profile pic, also do not tag myself as a pro-trader from dubai. I'm just left with my old demo account.

now you can continue with the group wanking
  • #59
  • Jan 5, 2016 5:10am Jan 5, 2016 5:10am
look for a marketing guy and publish your demo acct... or you can talk to me... the world is never short of people with cash looking for talents...
  • #60
  • Jan 5, 2016 6:03am Jan 5, 2016 6:03am
Quoting elitejets
If your strategy works but you just need capital then go and trade it with a firm like Darwinex. They allocate E500,000 a month to the top 16 traders and if your strategy works as you say then it would definately get funded. If it didnt then you don't lose anything. I don't work for them but have been watching how they work for a while.
Excelent post, thank you. This is exactly the purpose of this thread - to look at new options. I've never heard of Darwinex and will definitely look them up. Thanks again

Are there any other options similar to Darwinex that come into your mind?
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