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Flag trading the trend

  • #9,321
  • Dec 24, 2015 8:56pm Dec 24, 2015 8:56pm
Thank you everyone and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! May the force be with us!
  • #9,322
  • Dec 24, 2015 9:39pm Dec 24, 2015 9:39pm
Merry Christmas and God Bless.

What a wonderful little group we have here!
  • #9,323
  • Dec 28, 2015 9:38am Dec 28, 2015 9:38am
Hope everyone had a peaceful Christmas!

I remember Divergence saying there is no spread (or difference between bid/ask on oil when he was trading it), just commission of 4.50 usd per lot.

Currently looking at demo account with interactive brokers and see that bid/ask difference is 2 ticks which seems quite a lot. Plus there will be a commission I believe. I could not find ZB at all, maybe I am just a bit lost in their platform. I was wondering how much commission and bid/ask spread do you pay on YM, ZB and Dax?
  • #9,324
  • Dec 28, 2015 10:00am Dec 28, 2015 10:00am
Quoting tonny47
Hope everyone had a peaceful Christmas! I remember Divergence saying there is no spread (or difference between bid/ask on oil when he was trading it), just commission of 4.50 usd per lot. Currently looking at demo account with interactive brokers and see that bid/ask difference is 2 ticks which seems quite a lot. Plus there will be a commission I believe. I could not find ZB at all, maybe I am just a bit lost in their platform. I was wondering how much commission and bid/ask spread do you pay on YM, ZB and Dax?
what I mean by no spread is this say you want to buy at 37.46 in forex if spread was 2 you would have to put order in at 37.48 in futures you put it in at the exact number of 37.46. whats meant by spread is the people buying and selling difference. I very very rarely get slipped so when I put order in I usually get filled
  • #9,325
  • Dec 28, 2015 10:06am Dec 28, 2015 10:06am
Quoting tonny47
Hope everyone had a peaceful Christmas! I remember Divergence saying there is no spread (or difference between bid/ask on oil when he was trading it), just commission of 4.50 usd per lot. Currently looking at demo account with interactive brokers and see that bid/ask difference is 2 ticks which seems quite a lot. Plus there will be a commission I believe. I could not find ZB at all, maybe I am just a bit lost in their platform. I was wondering how much commission and bid/ask spread do you pay on YM, ZB and Dax?
also tonny I wouldn't use ib there are not a very good futures broker try amp or transact and get demo for sierra charts much better platform
  • #9,326
  • Dec 28, 2015 10:12am Dec 28, 2015 10:12am
Quoting Divergence
{quote}what I mean by no spread is this say you want to buy at 37.46 in forex if spread was 2 you would have to put order in at 37.48 in futures you put it in at the exact number of 37.46. whats meant by spread is the people buying and selling difference. I very very rarely get slipped so when I put order in I usually get filled
Hi, thanks for your response. Right, thats pretty much how its showing on interactive brokers demo trading platform ie the same as with forex to my understanding. Please see below YM futures - so they are showing bid pride of 17079 and ask 17081. So you cannot enter a trade at 17079 immediately (unless the price goes down of course). Plus I believe that there is commission on the top.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #9,327
  • Dec 28, 2015 10:14am Dec 28, 2015 10:14am
Quoting tonny47
{quote} Hi, thanks for your response. Right, thats pretty much how its showing on interactive brokers demo trading platform ie the same as with forex to my understanding. Please see below YM futures - so they are showing bid pride of 17079 and ask 17081. So you cannot enter a trade at 17079 immediately (unless the price goes down of course). Plus I believe that there is commission on the top. {image}
I would recommend getting a demo from amp or transact or cannon trading which is an ib of transact
  • #9,328
  • Dec 28, 2015 11:26am Dec 28, 2015 11:26am
Quoting Divergence
{quote}I would recommend getting a demo from amp or transact or cannon trading which is an ib of transact
i have been playing around with few of the platforms just now. So far I have not been lucky in getting data feed through Sierra. so I had a look at transact own platform. Pretty much everything has bid/ask difference of 1 tick. demo is showing limited number of instruments, perhaps only 10 in total and not showing YM, ZB or dax
  • #9,329
  • Dec 28, 2015 12:19pm Dec 28, 2015 12:19pm
Quoting ddaytrader
{quote} The spread in futures is set by the market, not your broker. So long as you are paying less than 5$US/round turn, i.e. to open a contract with a buy/sell short and then to close the contract with a buy/sell then you will be within the usual parameters.
that was my understanding as well - Divergence probably meant something else when I asked few months back about oil (or its just me who misunderstood)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: spread.PNG Size: 21 KB
  • #9,330
  • Dec 28, 2015 12:21pm Dec 28, 2015 12:21pm
are you guys back to trading?
  • #9,331
  • Dec 28, 2015 12:21pm Dec 28, 2015 12:21pm
Quoting ddaytrader
{quote} There is never a speadless market. There is always a best bid at which someone is willing to buy and a best ask at which someone is willing to sell. There is no such thing as a "free" trade. There is always a spread and there is always a commission to pay. If you can't find a contract in your platform, pick up the phone and call your broker.
so your spread is 2 ticks as per ladder you posted before plus commission. proportionally quite high in case you aim only for 10 tick profit but i see you manage to squeeze more than that
Attached Image
  • #9,332
  • Dec 28, 2015 12:53pm Dec 28, 2015 12:53pm
Quoting ddaytrader
{quote} Spread on YM can be as little as one tick, but it can be 2 or 3 ticks at times. It is set by the market, not the broker. There is always a spread. Divergence meant to say not that there is no spread, but that you can set a limit order or even a stop order at a price and it will get filled at that price very often. Example: If you are long EUR/USD with a bucket shop forex broker, and you want to get out of the trade if price trades below 1.1000 and your broker has a 2 pip spread, then your stop loss would be 10997 (one pip below 1.1000 minus...
thanks, I can see the benefit of spread being set by market as opposed to broker and it is clearly a huge benefit.

With regards to you EUR/USD example, you can still exit the same way as with futures one pip below 1.1000 because when you entered the trade, you entered it at asking price which was 2 pips above bid. Your stop loss on long position would be triggered as soon as bid price touches your stop loss level.

You can also set a buy limit or buy stop order with bucket shop exactly the same way. Or am I missing something?
  • #9,333
  • Dec 28, 2015 1:14pm Dec 28, 2015 1:14pm
Hot topic the futures spread. When you compare to fx you need to add it to go long because broker did in futures the price you want to enter is the price you enter that's why I said there is no spread when entering a trade
  • #9,334
  • Dec 28, 2015 1:19pm Dec 28, 2015 1:19pm
Quoting ddaytrader
{quote} No. Your stop is not executed unless the market trades that price. Your stop loss may be the bid, but it may never get triggered becase price may sit there trading the offer and then move higher in your favor. In forex, on the other hand, you are out of the trade with a loss, even if the rest of the world never traded you stop loss price. You need to do some homework. Start here: https://www.nfa.futures.org/Futures_Training/main.html
thanks for the link but info covered in it is fairly basic and not covering really what I have asked. no need to be condescending. Our discussion was about cost of trading which spread is in my opinion (although you may not call it that), regardless of who sets it.
My stop orders on futures account seemed to be executed immediately as price went bid (stops for long position). The same way as it appeared to be executed on forex spread betting account.
  • #9,335
  • Dec 28, 2015 1:24pm Dec 28, 2015 1:24pm
Quoting Divergence
Hot topic the futures spread. When you compare to fx you need to add it to go long because broker did in futures the price you want to enter is the price you enter that's why I said there is no spread when entering a trade
all right, so its just a quoting difference, thanks
  • #9,336
  • Dec 28, 2015 1:30pm Dec 28, 2015 1:30pm
Here's a trade example a 123 forms to go long and pt 2 is 37.50 I put stop order in 1 tick above pt 2 at 37.51 when price goes to 37.51 trade is triggered
  • #9,337
  • Dec 28, 2015 1:39pm Dec 28, 2015 1:39pm
YM is 3.30 per contract
  • #9,338
  • Dec 28, 2015 1:56pm Dec 28, 2015 1:56pm
Quoting Divergence
YM is 3.30 per contract
thanks!
  • #9,339
  • Dec 28, 2015 2:03pm Dec 28, 2015 2:03pm
Quoting ddaytrader
{quote} Your questions indicate that the basics is where you are stumbling. I was not being condescending. If the information is no help to you, so be it. It was offered in a helpful spirit. I just hate to see one of the few good threads at FF get bogged down with post after post about basic order entry and market mechanics rather than stay focused on price action and trading.
i dont think the link was relevant to my question, that is all. i don't see anything wrong with writing post or two comparing benefits of futures trading to spread betting and vice versa. afterall many people are not trading during this part of the year and no one has posted any trades in days...
  • #9,340
  • Dec 28, 2015 2:12pm Dec 28, 2015 2:12pm
OK just know that whatever price you want to enter via a setup is the price you enter at
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