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Is Forex trading worth it? If so, why?

  • #21
  • Dec 2, 2015 9:38am Dec 2, 2015 9:38am
Quoting Bilstein
It's worth it if you can do it "right". Problem is, what is "right" is different for everyone. There's a universe built around retail trading. Expertly designed by marketing departments to cultivate a certain mentality that generates a consistent profit; for forums (advertising) and for brokers (making retail traders trade more often because of what they read on forums). Watching people run the same path I did when I started trading from the vantage point of profitability is an interesting experience in self-reflection. Retail traders tend to look...
I love this.... "My wife still looks at this as an alien language and when she asks me "how the market was today?" she can never pay attention long enough for me to completely answer, lol." This is exactly how it is with me. My wife told me she doesn't need to know all the details because she doesn't understand them! Haha. She just asks me..."how was trading today?" I usually just say good or bad now. Mostly good as I have few bad days. A bad day for me is a loss of 3% or a DD of more then 10%. A good day is my daily profit average of 0.50%. A great day is more the 0.50% in a day.

"How can I ever be consistent when every new thread takes me on a different path?" Also very true! This is the reason I had to step away from the forums.

Well said here. Thanks for the honesty. You are right though. Practically every trader finds the market because they were promised something unrealistic.
  • #22
  • Dec 2, 2015 9:40am Dec 2, 2015 9:40am
Quoting shellsnail
Most aren't willing to put in the effort and hard work necessary to become a good trader. You don't become a trader by reading trading books or blogs or FF threads; you become a good trader by trading.
This right here is on the money.
  • #23
  • Dec 2, 2015 9:42am Dec 2, 2015 9:42am
Quoting Bilstein
There's a universe built around retail trading. Expertly designed by marketing departments to cultivate a certain mentality that generates a consistent profit; for forums (advertising) and for brokers (making retail traders trade more often because of what they read on forums).
Is it really?

It kinda looks like people inflict this experience upon themselves by their own nature.
  • #24
  • Dec 2, 2015 9:46am Dec 2, 2015 9:46am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} This right here is on the money.
That is a good quote although I don't agree with it fully. Every trader has to start somewhere. Otherwise how will they learn how to even trade? Not everyone has the benefit of hiring a trainer. Even then the trainer could be giving poor advice. It's all about how you take the information you learn. It's also about how you use this information in your own trading. How literal do you take others advice?

I'm grateful for FF. I'm not sure I would be where I am today without it. I had graduate from it some day though.
  • #25
  • Dec 2, 2015 9:53am Dec 2, 2015 9:53am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Is it really? It kinda looks like people inflict this experience upon themselves by their own nature.
I agree. But you have to consider human nature and ask: "How can I capitalize on this?"

-Forums make money through broker advertising.
-Brokers make money by you trading more (commissions) and losing money (in some instances).

What we have in every forex forum is a proverbial ocean of confidence and trading systems constantly pulling retail traders in a multitude of directions, diving head-first into every thread they think harbors the next great system that'll turn their trading around. There's also mass collaboration on using existing data to reinvent the wheel - what do you think comes as a result of this activity?

(1) New accounts
(2) New deposits
(3) More confidence

Which leads to...

(4) More trading (commissions)
(5) More losses (when the systems fail)
(6) Over-leveraging

or.. broker profits. Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with this business model. The thing is, given that forums and brokers have the tendency to cater to unsophisticated investors, it diminishes the overall value of forums. So, if you think about it, we're both right. Human nature is simply capitalized on.
  • #26
  • Dec 2, 2015 9:55am Dec 2, 2015 9:55am
Quoting Cubbybgood
{quote} That is a good quote although I don't agree with it fully. Every trader has to start somewhere. Otherwise how will they learn how to even trade? Not everyone has the benefit of hiring a trainer. Even then the trainer could be giving poor advice. It's all about how you take the information you learn. It's also about how you use this information in your own trading. How literal do you take others advice? I'm grateful for FF. I'm not sure I would be where I am today without it. I had graduate from it some day though.
That's a fair point.
  • #27
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:03am Dec 2, 2015 10:03am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} I agree. But you have to consider human nature and ask: "How can I capitalize on this?" -Forums make money through broker advertising. -Brokers make money by you trading more (commissions) and losing money (in some instances). What we have in every forex forum is a proverbial ocean of confidence and trading systems constantly pulling retail traders in a multitude of directions, diving head-first into every thread they think harbors the next great system that'll turn their trading around. There's also mass collaboration on using existing...
They are only responding to demand. The cycle of self ruin will still occur even if you somehow gave all retailers the ability to participate in the actual market with a small amount of capital.
  • #28
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:04am Dec 2, 2015 10:04am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} They are only responding to demand. The cycle of self ruin will still occur even if you somehow gave all retailers the ability to participate in the actual market with a small amount of capital.
I completely agree.

I suppose I should clarify my position. What I'm saying is that for me personally, the value of the information on forex forums is inherently diminished considering the demographic the business model caters to. As Cubby said: eventually you graduate from it.
  • #29
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:09am Dec 2, 2015 10:09am
Quoting Bilstein
{quote} I completely agree.
One additional tidbit; 100 years ago, bucketshop operations didn't even have to charge clients commission or spread. People who gambled at these places would just kill their own accounts by trading on shoestring margins. Sound familiar?
  • #30
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:11am Dec 2, 2015 10:11am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} One additional tidbit; 100 years ago, bucketshop operations didn't even have to charge clients commission or spread. People who gambled at these places would just kill their own accounts by trading on shoestring margins. Sound familiar?
Indeed.
  • #31
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:27am Dec 2, 2015 10:27am
Quoting Bilstein
I suppose I should clarify my position. What I'm saying is that for me personally, the value of the information on forex forums is inherently diminished considering the demographic the business model caters to.
Most of the information here has no value because its what people want to hear and believe.

Some people will even go so far as to pay for an unprofitable system or useless information.

You don't see good advice or profitable ideas because there simply is no demand for them.
  • #32
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:29am Dec 2, 2015 10:29am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Most of the information here has no value because its what people want to hear and believe. Some people will even go so far as to pay for an unprofitable system or useless information. You don't see good advice or profitable ideas because there simply is no demand for them.
I think we've gone into an "agreement loop".
  • #33
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:32am Dec 2, 2015 10:32am
Quoting Cubbybgood
{quote} Well said here. Thanks for post. Honistly it's hard to know who is actually a pro. What does the word pro even mean in the trading world?
Its easy to tell the pros from the not pros ... Sorry if i came accross differently i wasnt claiming to be a "seasoned pro" but I have certainlly immersed myself in this thing for the best part of the last 8 years or so.

Ive watched the market amd ive wayched the participants day in day out. Ive seen how even when you know where the market will stop and reverse it is still a battle just to profit from it... Now put this on a net basis from 100 trades and here is the thing.

I dont wanna start talking about who ive talked too or the differnce between getting into the market on a 5 pip stop confidently compared to 30 pip Sl less confidently. The dick heads who constantly time and f time again use threads like this to go "ah ha this is my song, everyone sucks and i am the 5% like i always knew" thats whats coming...

But the most eye opening fact for me was a guy who learned from a professional, an institutional trader of 30 years who said hed never seen a real trader who is a success with less than 10 years experience.. and thays just that. An amazing fact when you think about it. Despite the 100+ traders on this site who have been trading less than 5 years but keep this ficard runjing like crack on heroin. Not trying to crush dreams here but they told me this sh*t too.. I didnt listen, f no..
Time hides Nothing
  • #34
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:37am Dec 2, 2015 10:37am
Quoting CindyXXXX
But the most eye opening fact for me was a guy who learned from a professional, an institutional trader of 30 years who said hed never seen a real trader who is a success with less than 10 years experience.. and thays just that.
But this is just untrue. There are some very successful traders who were on the right track from the very start of their careers.
  • #35
  • Edited 6:56pm Dec 2, 2015 10:43am | Edited 6:56pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
{quote}But the most eye opening fact for me was a guy who learned from a professional, an institutional trader of 30 years who said hed never seen a real trader who is a success with less than 10 years experience.. and thays just that. An amazing fact when you think about it. Despite the 100+ traders on this site who have been trading less than 5 years but keep this ficard runjing like crack on heroin. Not trying to crush dreams here but they told me this sh*t too.. I didnt listen, f no..
It takes about a decade in this industry to start learning how to trade.
  • #36
  • Dec 2, 2015 10:57am Dec 2, 2015 10:57am
Quoting Bilstein
It's worth it if you can do it "right". Problem is, what is "right" is different for everyone. There's a universe built around retail trading. Expertly designed by marketing departments to cultivate a certain mentality that generates a consistent profit; for forums (advertising) and for brokers (making retail traders trade more often because of what they read on forums). Watching people run the same path I did when I started trading from the vantage point of profitability is an interesting experience in self-reflection. Retail traders tend to look...
Deeply said, indeed.

Best
D.P.
Hunting High and Low
  • #37
  • Dec 2, 2015 11:05am Dec 2, 2015 11:05am
Great topic.

Having recently entered the fifth year of my own trading journey (it's always felt a like a journey to me), I totally get where you're coming from regarding the sort of addictive nature of these markets and the effect that this may have on relationships with loved ones.

All of that aside, I came to the conclusion some time ago that because there's really no universal right or wrong way to trade, then from a retail perspective (whether one realises it or not) learning and ultimately trading these markets for a regular profit is approached with a kind of pioneering spirit. And I suppose all pioneers throughout history have been difficult characters to stop once they've set their hearts and minds on doing something.

On the basis of there being no universal right or wrong to trade there's one thing in particular that, if I had to do this all again, I'd take a completely different approach with - and that is the so-called "educational" element of what we do - the trading forums, dedicated trading websites/groups and "nice guys" who claim to just want to help other traders out because, well, they're "nice". At best (in my experience at least) those who present the educational material speak in riddles, and at worst, I've encountered elements of blatant secrecy in trading groups. I eventually came to realise that being in possession of half of someone else's trading method is by far worse than being in possession of none of it at all. And in my view this leaves a bottom line: we have to work out our own trading method. It sounds so obvious but it's still curious how so many (myself included at one time) overlook this simple fact.

I wish I'd truly understood the above point a lot sooner than I did, and if I have one regret, it's losing the time I dedicated trying to work with other people's nuanced methods. But I often tell myself that this is the price we pay, the penance perhaps, to move to the next level. I love trading and intend to do it until the day I die, but in my work-life, which has been quite varied, learning to trade is the single most difficult thing I've ever tried to, which makes it all the more rewarding.
  • #38
  • Dec 2, 2015 11:12am Dec 2, 2015 11:12am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} But this is just untrue. There are some very successful traders who were on the right track from the very start of their careers.
Im all ears
Time hides Nothing
  • #39
  • Dec 2, 2015 11:36am Dec 2, 2015 11:36am
Quote
Why do I trade? Is it to be rich? Do I trade as a hobby? Do I love it? do I hate it?

What are your dreams and goals in trading? Are they realistic? Are we wasting time?

i trade because i am a lazy bastard, that's why, i don't have any responsibilities, i can do whatever i want, go wherever i want, anytime. i can live in china, i can travel chile, i can drive around all day, i can follow summer around the world, i can improve any skill for it's own sake or just enjoy life.

why forex? it's just an opportunity, it's there, and i was always interested in international markets way before i even knew that such a thing as trading exists in this world, funny as it sounds i even wrote an essay for my then girlfriend about the currency markets, it was around the year 2000 and i came to trading seven years later. do i love it or hate it, it's challenging and that is good enough. it enforces discipline, it enforces improvement, it enforces patience.

what are my dreams? do i want to be rich? i don't care. it makes no difference, because it's all about how you see the world, not what you have. really, humans, don't need much to live. it's a big fucking social game. why do you need 5000$ shoes exactly? i'm not saying living in a cardboard box is the shit, but what do you need all that stuff for? you will die, everything will be gone, this moment is all you have.

so my goal is doing the trades, which are reasonable and make money, so i can support my lifestyle. if i make a million, so be it. if i lose everything, so be it. there is no point to it anyways, it's just another thing i do. if i look back where i was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it's another person, another me in another world, never could i have imagined where i would be 5 years from then, so who knows where i'll be in another 5 years, it's totally unpredictable.
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #40
  • Dec 2, 2015 12:13pm Dec 2, 2015 12:13pm
It hasnt really been worth it for me thus far, i never lost a single penny cause i never traded live, nor did i ever blow a demo account but i lost a lot of time since 2012. I wish i had done more productive stuff with my life. But who knows maybe times to come will be better.
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