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  • #121
  • Sep 14, 2015 4:29am Sep 14, 2015 4:29am
Quoting mry2001
{quote} Of course i want to make millions, but it is not possible with retail dealers. I am only playing with a few thousands so making a few thousands is good amount of profit. I plan to make regular withdraw to cover the cost of living. Retail dealer/broker are very very money thirsty so they are going to kick u out before u make a lot. prime brokers might be the same but i have no experience. The guy who lost 20k from gain capital was trading with Gtx, the Prime
Well I am telling you that making millions IS possible even with the few thousand as long as the retail brokers play fair. They are not so we can only make a few thousand at best. But anyway ignorance is bliss I guess. As long as you are content of making just a few thousand when you SHOULD be making millions, nobody will say one word more.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #122
  • Sep 14, 2015 4:38am Sep 14, 2015 4:38am
Quoting mry2001
{quote} Of course i want to make millions, but it is not possible with retail dealers. I am only playing with a few thousands so making a few thousands is good amount of profit. I plan to make regular withdraw to cover the cost of living. Retail dealer/broker are very very money thirsty so they are going to kick u out before u make a lot. prime brokers might be the same but i have no experience. The guy who lost 20k from gain capital was trading with Gtx, the Prime
i can see that you will never make money lol.

you can't withdraw the money doesn't mean you can't make millions.

nice mindset you got there ...

so your not gonna set millions as your goal because of the retail dealers?????

that's sad .
  • #123
  • Sep 14, 2015 5:30am Sep 14, 2015 5:30am
I think the real money in the market is made by liquidity provider collecting the spread, the other one are pretty much passing their money one to another in circle with only few covering trading cost and earn some money
  • #124
  • Edited 7:21am Sep 14, 2015 6:58am | Edited 7:21am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} I wonder how do you trade directly on EBS Reuters? Would you still need a broker? I would guess you still do since EBS Reuters is just a platform. What's their min. trading volume, anybody know? The crux of the problem with forex trading in essence, not just with retail brokers is the lack of price & trade transparency: You are NOT getting what you are seeing. I dunno how the prime brokers are set up with regards to those institutional platforms like EBS Reuters but if they have access to the trading platform as well, do they also have the...

yes EBS do have their own trading platform
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 201502_EBS_New_UserInterface650x472Copy.png Size: 289 KB

i didn't ask personally, i'v heard they wouldn't even look at you if you don't have at least 10M$, they're mostly for hedge found and banks.


btw EBS =! Reuters, they're unrelated.



and yes some broker can give you access to their liquidity/platform like vCap and Baxter-fx for about 50K$

Quote
do they also have the capability of manipulating the price displayed on the platform for them to earn a spread on top of the commission

that wouldn't be wise, their clients aren't some newbie trying who think they'll become millionaire with their new $99 EA they just bought from a fishy website.

they're old shark who can figure out when things don't add up, also institutional traders use multiple Liquidity providers.
i lose money for a living
  • #125
  • Edited 7:57am Sep 14, 2015 7:01am | Edited 7:57am
I just don't get you people. Price / feed manipulation is serious thing. If you believe that your broker is manipulating price through the virtual dealer plug-in or whatever (paranoia anyone?) just record all your trades and if you have evidence find a good lawyer and there you have it. The easiest 1 mil. $ earned
  • #126
  • Sep 14, 2015 4:26pm Sep 14, 2015 4:26pm
Quoting tylerbose
{quote} also institutional traders use multiple Liquidity providers.
When you are using EBS, you are supposed to get access to multiple liquidity providers too and that's not the issue. The issue is the transparency. With no central exchanges, you have no way of verifying what you see is what was really there or what you're going to get.

So the only way to make money in forex for sure is really wait until forex trading goes on central exchanges but until then, the only way is, like I said before, find a broker that really aligns their interest with yours. Since it's the trade volume that those brokers are more interested in, that's WHY I asked what's the trade volume with those brokers are looking at?

Does anybody know? Nobody has answered so far...
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #127
  • Sep 14, 2015 4:28pm Sep 14, 2015 4:28pm
Quoting merquise
I just don't get you people. Price / feed manipulation is serious thing. If you believe that your broker is manipulating price through the virtual dealer plug-in or whatever (paranoia anyone?) just record all your trades and if you have evidence find a good lawyer and there you have it. The easiest 1 mil. $ earned
Yeah like us who're only able to spare a few K to invest with a retail broker and are only earning few K can really afford a good lawyer to sue those brokers for a $1 million. That will be a new way for us retail traders to make money in the forex market: sue the brokers. LOL
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #128
  • Sep 14, 2015 5:47pm Sep 14, 2015 5:47pm
Guys...let's get real for a moment. I always see this type of paranoia appear every now and then from traders... An individual (whether it be a broker, MM, super-secret illuminati, whatever) is not going to spend the crazy amount of capital to run your standard lot. I think it's easier to point blame at an "unfair" force, rather than to accept that one doesn't have an edge. Having said that, of course it's possible to make money in the markets. Whether or not you'll find viable information on these forums (or any forums for that matter) that will present an edge is debatable.
  • #129
  • Sep 14, 2015 8:46pm Sep 14, 2015 8:46pm
Quoting Benevolent
Guys...let's get real for a moment. I always see this type of paranoia appear every now and then from traders... An individual (whether it be a broker, MM, super-secret illuminati, whatever) is not going to spend the crazy amount of capital to run your standard lot. I think it's easier to point blame at an "unfair" force, rather than to accept that one doesn't have an edge. Having said that, of course it's possible to make money in the markets. Whether or not you'll find viable information on these forums (or any forums for that matter) that will...
Inserted Video
This is an illustration of what the Virtual Dealer plug-in does and how it can be used in the broker's favour against us traders.

Inserted Video
This video, although it's an advertisement about a software that detects the plug-in, it has real evidence how the dealer plug-in is used by brokers by MT4, the manufacturer itself AND how a real broker that's all to familiar to us, Gain Capital really used to make money against us as documented by NFA, The National Futures Association, the US regulator for forex.

It's NOT a conspiracy. This kind of manipulation really DOES exist. Whoever denies it is either ignorant, naive or working for the broker.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #130
  • Sep 14, 2015 9:11pm Sep 14, 2015 9:11pm
Ah yes, the big bad broker is out to get you...but I can protect you if you buy my indicator! Don't get me wrong, I believe shady businesses can happen anywhere - gas stations, retail stores, etc. etc, however, you're still going to find the reputable businesses to rival the shady ones. As far as the GAIN case is concerned...they changed leverage / spreads starting on Friday, which is what they lost over. Mr. fancy pants indicator sales man makes it seem otherwise.
  • #131
  • Sep 14, 2015 9:54pm Sep 14, 2015 9:54pm
Quoting Benevolent
Ah yes, the big bad broker is out to get you...but I can protect you if you buy my indicator! Don't get me wrong, I believe shady businesses can happen anywhere - gas stations, retail stores, etc. etc, however, you're still going to find the reputable businesses to rival the shady ones. As far as the GAIN case is concerned...they changed leverage / spreads starting on Friday, which is what they lost over. Mr. fancy pants indicator sales man makes it seem otherwise.
Well I already mentioned their advertisement BUT what they stated about the virtual dealer plug-in IS the truth and it does exist. You can verify that by going to the MT4 website to see what MT4 says about its virtual dealer plug-in. And you can read the case document yourself of the Gain Capital complaint of how they used the virtual dealer plug-in to make profit at the expense of us traders on the NFA website itself. NFA publishes all case documents on their website. They changed leverage and spread for the purpose of being able to force close out losing positions so they can profit because Gain Capital trades against its traders. It's a known fact. They don't even claim to be an ECN.

And yes the big bad broker IS out to get us. What's the matter? You part of those brokers and not happy that I exposed your boss? LOL Because unless you are a troll, if you are one of us, a retail trader, you should be happy that I exposed them.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #132
  • Sep 14, 2015 10:07pm Sep 14, 2015 10:07pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Well I already mentioned their advertisement BUT what they stated about the virtual dealer plug-in IS the truth and it does exist. You can verify that by going to the MT4 website to see what MT4 says about its virtual dealer plug-in. And you can read the case document yourself of the Gain Capital complaint of how they used the virtual dealer plug-in to make profit at the expense of us traders on the NFA website itself. NFA publishes all case documents on their website. They changed leverage and spread for the purpose of being able to force...
There are some brokers who explicitly state that they don't follow such practices. Why not use them instead?
  • #133
  • Sep 14, 2015 10:15pm Sep 14, 2015 10:15pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} . What's the matter? You part of those brokers and not happy that I exposed your boss? LOL Because unless you are a troll, if you are one of us, a retail trader, you should be happy that I exposed them.
Definitely not a broker, a troll, or one of "youz guyz". I'm just stating the obvious: the amount of energy put into bitching and whining about how the broker is somehow cheating you, could have been put forth towards obtaining consistency within the markets. I'll never understand this notion... no one is forcing you to trade, so why even bother if you feel all of the big bad brokers are out to get you? I'm simply replying to this argument for the sake of others - you'll hardly find this type of manipulation in today's world.

http://i.imgur.com/pomg8un.png

I'd be willing to bet you, out of those 16,000 trades that I have placed this year, not one of those were "manipulated" in favor of a broker.
  • #134
  • Sep 14, 2015 11:02pm Sep 14, 2015 11:02pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Well I am telling you that making millions IS possible even with the few thousand as long as the retail brokers play fair. They are not so we can only make a few thousand at best. But anyway ignorance is bliss I guess. As long as you are content of making just a few thousand when you SHOULD be making millions, nobody will say one word more.
It is possible to make billions in the currency market if you have the resource and knowledge. For example, Soros sold billions aud dollars 2 years ago at 1.0. All you have to do is follow him but you will not make much because u have not much funds. lol

I also believe profit for the scalpers are limited. For a normal retail dealer, there are 20-30 lots on top of book but there are hundreds traders want to take it. How much profit can you make when trade 5 lots fixed fixed?To make more profit, u have to trade with banks with mt4 bridge like inception said. But doing that requires a lot of money.

Retail brokers do not manipulate much as I have seen my stop 0.1 pip away from the price on the screen not triggered a few times. The main problem of retail broker is commission, slippage and liquidity. Most of them charge 5-7 usd a standard lot which adds up quickly. After paying thousands commission a month I switched back to market makers. To be honest, I do not understand the logic of switching to ecn brokers, which is the middleman between traders and market makers with delay and a cost.
  • #135
  • Sep 14, 2015 11:07pm Sep 14, 2015 11:07pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} When you are using EBS, you are supposed to get access to multiple liquidity providers too and that's not the issue. The issue is the transparency. With no central exchanges, you have no way of verifying what you see is what was really there or what you're going to get. So the only way to make money in forex for sure is really wait until forex trading goes on central exchanges but until then, the only way is, like I said before, find a broker that really aligns their interest with yours. Since it's the trade volume that those brokers are...
If you have traded stocks then u know on the central exchange u still trade against markets makers. There are people who study market maker behavior and actually make a profit.
  • #136
  • Edited Sep 15, 2015 12:10am Sep 14, 2015 11:52pm | Edited Sep 15, 2015 12:10am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} The utility is NOT what we are talking about here. Who cares who uses the market for what purposes? At the end, if you aggregate all the winnings and the losses, the result is still zero. I don't understand what your comment is doing here.
His comment is totally appropriate - because even if he did not word his comment that good, he understands what the market is about which is VALUE. Zero-sum transactions do not exist, or else the transaction wouldn't find place. A transaction in a free market occur when two parties value more what they are getting than what they are giving.

The forex market cannot be zero sum, just like the stock market is not zero sum. You could say it is zero-sum in monetary terms, but not in real terms (value) at that is what it is ALL about. if you state otherwise it is only because you don't understand what "currency" is. Currency has no intrinsic value, it is a claim-check to value. It is a piece of debt.

Forex is not zero-sum, you can have two currencies fall or rise by 50% in value, and the exchange price would stay the same. But both parties would still have either gained or lost. On another note, there has been thousands of currencies through history and they have ALL gone to 0. Hold you currency long enough, and it will be worthless.

On a net basis FOREX is a losing game, due to inflation. Caused by central banks monetizing government deficit spending, bank-bailouts etc. The only one gaining from the forex-market are the ones who are allowed to print it, as they basically stealing the value from the existing currency base. Fiat-currency is probably one of the biggest scams in history, and we never learn.
  • #137
  • Sep 15, 2015 12:43am Sep 15, 2015 12:43am
Quoting jub
{quote} His comment is totally appropriate - because even if he did not word his comment that good, he understands what the market is about which is VALUE. Zero-sum transactions do not exist, or else the transaction wouldn't find place. A transaction in a free market occur when two parties value more what they are getting than what they are giving. The forex market cannot be zero sum, just like the stock market is not zero sum. You could say it is zero-sum in monetary terms, but not in real terms (value) at that is what it is ALL about. if you state...
FX is pure zero sum. All gains or losses are merely product of identical valuation changes on both ends over time. For some it is not loss per se, since if you have to pay or be paid today, you do not care about what a currency might be worth tomorrow even with active treasury management (due to its limited scope). Equities are mixed. If one competitor gains on another that can be thought as zero sum, but in relation to single stock that would be a pure gain. Innovation produces gain, but when it displaces some old products that could be again seen as zero gain (i.e. something new displacing something in existence).
  • #138
  • Sep 15, 2015 1:06am Sep 15, 2015 1:06am
Quoting mry2001
{quote} The main problem of retail broker is commission, slippage and liquidity. Most of them charge 5-7 usd a standard lot which adds up quickly. After paying thousands commission a month I switched back to market makers. To be honest, I do not understand the logic of switching to ecn brokers, which is the middleman between traders and market makers with delay and a cost.
Slippage IS manipulation my friend; it's their spread. And I will tell you, no matter how much I hate IB's crappy platform, their slippage is zero 80% of the time, ZERO even during news time. IB is an ECN NOT a MM.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #139
  • Sep 15, 2015 1:07am Sep 15, 2015 1:07am
Quoting jub
{quote}You could say it is zero-sum in monetary terms, but not in real terms (value) at that is what it is ALL about.
It's MONEY we are talking about here. If you want to talk about "value", "real value", go troll in a philosophical forum.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #140
  • Sep 15, 2015 1:10am Sep 15, 2015 1:10am
Quoting Benevolent
how the broker is somehow cheating you
Not "somehow" cheating me, they ARE cheating us. I have already provided TWO videos, NFA case documents, website information from the platform manufacturer itself demonstrating how retail brokers are manipulating prices and order processing in a popular trading platform to cheat us.

What's your evidence that they are not?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
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