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Higher Edge within a Single Candlestick

  • #261
  • Jun 10, 2015 4:40am Jun 10, 2015 4:40am
Quoting zghnno
True in Stocks and Futures. False in Forex.
Can you explain me why? (false in forex). Like you would explain to a child.
  • #262
  • Jun 10, 2015 5:41am Jun 10, 2015 5:41am
[quote=blueseahorse;8313650]
Quoting alexx90
well said alex, a movement is a relative value, so just needs a reference point to compare to do we really need to know it is a strong or weak move? i think the only thing we need to do is take the pips when momentum is changed and the momentum should be derived from same reference point i believe i do not know if this make any sense or not
the open price of a candle (for example H1 candle) is a static reference point. but we are in a dynamic market, we need dynamic entry and dynamic exit.
so what about a dynamic reference point? think about this:if you update the open price of a H1 candle every minute or second, you will see a rolling H1 candle by
dynamic movement of price. use this dynamic reference point to caculate its momentum, see, the rest is to manage the dynamic entry and exit.
patience is a virtue
  • #263
  • Jun 10, 2015 6:14am Jun 10, 2015 6:14am
Quoting vlady1974
{quote} You're essentially asking how to predict the future by being as close as possible to the present whilst at the same time being a part-timer. It's a recipe for trading disaster, imho.
Couldn' t agree more!

Already said skfx approach was not for me at the moment

Also let me point out that i'm not asking other traders to share they hardly earned tecniques or secrets, when in ask HOW substantially i'm rumbling to myself, figuring if rethinking process can lead me to extract some practical application from brilliant and very well crafted but apparently generic and theoric posts

Quoting vlady1974
{quote} The idea of necessarily going down to short TF is not the case. .
My bad english ... sometimes i don't explain well ...

I have the impression that some posts point in that direction but I too don't think that's necessarily the case and anyway there is a limit to the approach (tick) and when you have reached that limit you have not solved the puzzle so the cases are two:

1) CP and others like him are telling BS and i don't think thats the case

2) i still miss some other important piece of the puzzle (much more probable, or at least my equity tells so )

I greatly appreciate the inputs given here (yours too) but to me they are worthless without self-investigation on how to apply to my trading style & possibilities and that's the real hurdle for many of us myself included.

btw: this morning, only one trade + 30 pips ... tomorrow who knows
  • #264
  • Jun 10, 2015 7:00am Jun 10, 2015 7:00am
Quoting change
{quote} I greatly appreciate the inputs given here (yours too) but to me they are worthless without self-investigation on how to apply to my trading style & possibilities and that's the real hurdle for many of us myself included. btw: this morning, only one trade + 30 pips ... tomorrow who knows
I would suggest that you dive into Mark Douglas' "Trading In The Zone"
This is a quintessential book that can hopefully shed light on this.
Best of luck.
A pip is only worth it if you know how much you risked to earn it
  • #265
  • Jun 10, 2015 10:54am Jun 10, 2015 10:54am
Quoting change
{quote} ... CP and others like him are telling BS and i don't think thats the case ...
  • #266
  • Jun 10, 2015 12:54pm Jun 10, 2015 12:54pm
Quoting alexx90
What is market doing? Candlestick chart {image} Tick chart {image} Tick chart zoomed {image} So, what is market doing? Moving up and down. Now looking at this picture of CP {image} How do I know if a move is strong medium or weak? I should measure something to compare and then say if its strong medium or weak. From Wikipedia Measurement is the assignment of numbers to objects or events. In this case what should I measure? I should measure movement. How? Maybe I should say 2 pips move in any direction (up or down) without retracement is a weak move....
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: back at yah.jpg Size: 173 KB


If you sell and it gets real close to your TP and halts, CLOSE. You SL should not be big, say 1/2 of the TP should do it.
If price gets to your low SR, wait, if it halts, buy, TP a bit below middle SR.
This is my GENERAL take on it. I dont know the instrument and not the timeframe.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #267
  • Jun 10, 2015 1:57pm Jun 10, 2015 1:57pm
[quote=blueseahorse;8317477]
Quoting blueseahorse
{quote} the open price of a candle (for example H1 candle) is a static reference point. but we are in a dynamic market, we need dynamic entry and dynamic exit. so what about a dynamic reference point? think about this:if you update the open price of a H1 candle every minute or second, you will see a rolling H1 candle by dynamic movement of price. use this dynamic reference point to caculate its momentum, see, the rest is to manage the dynamic entry and exit.
with this in mind does anyone know of an mt4 indi that presents a rolling h1 candle? i.e. the open and close are reprinted every 1 minute?
  • #268
  • Jun 10, 2015 2:04pm Jun 10, 2015 2:04pm
[quote=blueseahorse;8317477]
Quoting blueseahorse
{quote} the open price of a candle (for example H1 candle) is a static reference point. but we are in a dynamic market, we need dynamic entry and dynamic exit. so what about a dynamic reference point? think about this:if you update the open price of a H1 candle every minute or second, you will see a rolling H1 candle by dynamic movement of price. use this dynamic reference point to caculate its momentum, see, the rest is to manage the dynamic entry and exit.
I agree with this but only in a sense of being "static". LOL
We already have this in one sitting of 24 hours.

I think, there's a difference between having a continuum of reference points (which would be pointless) and having a "moving" reference point defined by an interval of time that is relevant. I'm referencing Sfx's examples specifically.
A pip is only worth it if you know how much you risked to earn it
  • #269
  • Jun 10, 2015 2:26pm Jun 10, 2015 2:26pm
[quote=vlady1974;8318693]
Quoting blueseahorse
{quote} I agree with this but only in a sense of being "static". LOL We already have this in one sitting of 24 hours. I think, there's a difference between having a continuum of reference points (which would be pointless) and having a "moving" reference point defined by an interval of time that is relevant. I'm referencing Sfx's examples specifically.
I actually think having a continuum of reference points would be a good idea. A moving average is a continuum of reference points. Why do we restrict our self to looking at the hourly close once every 60 mins? We can constantly guage the performance of price every minute and have better chance of finding the right conditions for entry if we have a moving hourly close. Can we not?
  • #270
  • Jun 10, 2015 2:40pm Jun 10, 2015 2:40pm
CrucialPoint was making a statement that a simple moving average is precisely a tool to say whether buyers (price >MA(T)) or sellers (price<MA(T)) were dominant over the past period T. I thought it was a neat observation worthy of reiterating.

k
  • #271
  • Jun 10, 2015 3:29pm Jun 10, 2015 3:29pm
[quote=NaughtyPip;8318719]
Quoting vlady1974
{quote} I actually think having a continuum of reference points would be a good idea. A moving average is a continuum of reference points. Why do we restrict our self to looking at the hourly close once every 60 mins? We can constantly guage the performance of price every minute and have better chance of finding the right conditions for entry if we have a moving hourly close. Can we not?
Hey NaughtyPip,Apologies I wasn't clear enough. I meant that a continuum of points is pointless, ie. A line (not that it was useless!) which you correctly pointed out as an average. I was alluding to Session Open within a trading day, not hourly opens or close.Since Skfx showed the importance of Open, then actually perhaps a moving average of sessions open may be an idea. Programmers?
A pip is only worth it if you know how much you risked to earn it
  • #272
  • Jun 10, 2015 7:33pm Jun 10, 2015 7:33pm
[quote=NaughtyPip;8318688]
Quoting blueseahorse
{quote} with this in mind does anyone know of an mt4 indi that presents a rolling h1 candle? i.e. the open and close are reprinted every 1 minute?
do we really need a visual rolling candle to show the reference point?
within the smallest TF chart you trade, you can get the updating reference easily.
patience is a virtue
  • #273
  • Jun 10, 2015 7:51pm Jun 10, 2015 7:51pm
[quote=vlady1974;8318789]
Quoting NaughtyPip
{quote} Hey NaughtyPip,Apologies I wasn't clear enough. I meant that a continuum of points is pointless, ie. A line (not that it was useless!) which you correctly pointed out as an average. I was alluding to Session Open within a trading day, not hourly opens or close.Since Skfx showed the importance of Open, then actually perhaps a moving average of sessions open may be an idea. Programmers?
session opens, hourly opens, daily opens, hourly pivot, daily pivot
do they really matter? or all we need is to define the reference point.
moving averages, pivot lines, open lines, these can all be reference point.
as CP mentioned, a boundary must be established.
but what about using present data not historical data? present data is dynamic or what?
patience is a virtue
  • #274
  • Jun 10, 2015 11:41pm Jun 10, 2015 11:41pm
 
[quote=blueseahorse;8319079]
Quoting vlady1974
{quote} session opens, hourly opens, daily opens, hourly pivot, daily pivot do they really matter? or all we need is to define the reference point. moving averages, pivot lines, open lines, these can all be reference point. as CP mentioned, a boundary must be established. but what about using present data not historical data? present data is dynamic or what?
 
Let's agree first that analysing data and trading it are 2 different animals.
Profitable trades still rely on entry, exit, stoploss which are all price points. Static.
The trigger, for my part is me, not an automated trigger because essentially I am betting on my opinion of the market.
 
Here lies the rub. My opinion which relies on static price is based on my regard for historical move, which needs a reference point. I trade on 4H setups and enter on either 15M or 5M timeframe depending on market. All history. There is no way I can be profitable watching a tick chart and just rolling off its dynamism....there are better ways to spend my time.
 
Thus getting back to my point.... We can choose to regard price or time as dynamic, but that still requires a person to form an opinion based on past performance. Since performance = dynamic vs static (historical) then OPEN, CLOSE matters more than daily pivot, MA, Fib, Elliot reference points because indicator references are arbitrary but Open/Close are fact. Your question to the trader is what timeframe are you analysing versus the timeframe you will trade from.
A pip is only worth it if you know how much you risked to earn it
  • #275
  • Jun 11, 2015 12:23am Jun 11, 2015 12:23am
Quote
Profitable trades still rely on entry, exit, stoploss which are all price points. Static.
yes, you can set your entry, exit, sl as static prices. but it does not have to be profitable trade.
breaking open price, trend lines, fibs are this type of trades
Quote
There is no way I can be profitable watching a tick chart and just rolling off its dynamism....
yes, there is a way to be profitable by doing so...
Quote
OPEN, CLOSE matters more than daily pivot, MA, Fib, Elliot reference points because indicator references are arbitrary but Open/Close are fact.
are they? put a line chart on, there is no open no close prices you can see, can you still be profitable trading on it?
patience is a virtue
  • #276
  • Jun 11, 2015 12:58am Jun 11, 2015 12:58am
Â
Quoting blueseahorse
{quote} yes, you can set your entry, exit, sl as static prices. but it does not have to be profitable trade. breaking open price, trend lines, fibs are this type of trades {quote} yes, there is a way to be profitable by doing so... {quote} are they? put a line chart on, there is no open no close prices you can see, can you still be profitable trading on it?
Hey blueseahorse,
ÂÂ
I think from your responses that I get where you're coming from. But you're treating it as some form of absolute, or that we don't need reference points at all, which nullifies Skfx's excellent posts and trading. ÂÂFor the record, I don't trade with line charts. But I get up in the morning check my chart and I see where it closed yesterday and where it opened in the session I'm interested. Money in the bank when I enter on my static price and exit on my static close. ÂÂHow you choose to chop up time/price is arbitrary, as you imply. But human beings work in intervals.ÂÂ
Â
1.
Not all trades are profitable, but all profitable trades from a "non-hedged" point of view have an entry, target and stop loss. I won't get into trading without SL here. If you don't, then the trade has no R:R. Not sure what you're implying here in reference to your "dynamic" analysis and trades.
ÂÂ
ÂÂ
2. If you can do it on a tick chart, then go for it. That's not my reality. Therefore it's not an absolute. I am profitable without watching a screen for 8 hours a day.ÂÂ
​
A pip is only worth it if you know how much you risked to earn it
  • #277
  • Jun 11, 2015 1:08am Jun 11, 2015 1:08am
The only ones looking at open and close of timeframes must be retail traders. And the 4H and Daily open and close prices depends on your broker.

I don't think that any of the market makers care about the timeframe open and close price. Since they are the ones that move the price you figure out if it matters. They might care about session open and close. That is what they deal with.
  • #278
  • Jun 11, 2015 1:21am Jun 11, 2015 1:21am
hi vlady

i am here just for talking about ideas and thoughts. i am not criticizing your trading style.

for me personally, i am a part time trader, i can only watch trades from time to time (4 hours each).

basically i am trading similar from your style. but i do know some flaws are existed in my system.

a lot of things can happen within 4 hour, 1 hour even minute.

while we are trading these candles as our smallest TF, we are losing infromations within the candle. that is why more losses can be hitted when we are not

watching it.

so please chill out.

regards bsh
patience is a virtue
  • #279
  • Edited 10:58am Jun 11, 2015 9:52am | Edited 10:58am
Quoting yaed
{quote} {image} If you sell and it gets real close to your TP and halts, CLOSE. You SL should not be big, say 1/2 of the TP should do it. If price gets to your low SR, wait, if it halts, buy, TP a bit below middle SR. This is my GENERAL take on it. I dont know the instrument and not the timeframe.
Ok yaed I see but this was not what I meant.

Why can't we simplify things? How did they trade when there were not charts? How did they trade when there were not computers? Do you really know how market work?
Because I read people that tell me it's not important the entry it's important how you manage the trade. Are you saying I can make profit with 1000 bad entries only managing them? I don't believe.
People that talk about S/R. timeframe m15, h1 etc.
There are a lot of people trading, why do you think that m15 chart is better than h1? Why are you using subjectivity?
To eliminate this subjectivity, isn't better to look at ticks?!
Ticks in the end are the reality of what market did and is doing.
Why would you put your subjectivity on trading?
Why don't you try to make it simple?
Yea i'm not going crazy, i'm tired of over complicated things and I'm tring to simplify them but people think that i'm crazy.

Alex
  • #280
  • Edited 11:30am Jun 11, 2015 11:18am | Edited 11:30am
Quoting alexx90
{quote} Ok yaed I see but this was not what I meant. Why can't we simplify things? How did they trade when there were not charts? How did they trade when there were not computers? Do you really know how market work? Because I read people that tell me it's not important the entry it's important how you manage the trade. Are you saying I can make profit with 1000 bad entries only managing them? I don't believe. People that talk about S/R. timeframe m15, h1 etc. There are a lot of people trading, why do you think that m15 chart is better than h1? Why...
Well about timeframe: There is no timeframe, time is a continous flow. I dont trade a specific chart, the chart is just a way of encompassing a set amount of data. I look at all the timeframes, but i mostly use H1 chart or H4 and M5. Thats because they have the data i need.
My signature is: "Classified".
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