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Higher Edge within a Single Candlestick

  • #81
  • Apr 4, 2015 2:17pm Apr 4, 2015 2:17pm
Quoting alexx90
{quote} After reading my post I thought maybe I've expressed bad my idea. Sure we need a reference point, but what I wanted to point out is: we can adjust our reference point as price moves so we can follow it. I referred to it as a dynamic reference point, my bad if I expressed in that way. Alex
Yes, but they are still static.
If you're moving your static reference point you're distorting performance.
Can i ask Alex what the benefit would be in moving a static reference point? I can understand adding one to one that is already existing , that would make sense.
Maybe this is what you mean. Sorry for the confusion.

Regards.
  • #82
  • Apr 4, 2015 2:25pm Apr 4, 2015 2:25pm
Quoting skfx
{quote} Broaden your thought out from just candles alone Neio. You're limiting yourself. Opening price is a critical part of gauging performance for any product/instrument/investment etc Fluid or current market over opens will give you performance. An open price is a static reference point. If current market is trading not only above Tokyo but is better bid out of London, that is the market giving you 'right side' of trade. We use this principle all the time in the real world and it works like a charm in trading too. The best thing about this is,...

that looks fantastic. anyone got anything like that coded they can share?
  • #83
  • Apr 4, 2015 2:45pm Apr 4, 2015 2:45pm
Quoting belgeran
hmm.... pardon me.. but in essence, it still boils down to "how u trade it", isn't it? because candle open or close, S/R or horizontal lines... it doesn't matter.... its just a reference point?
Yes, exactly belgeren! It does come to how you trade it. You're dead right.
Without a reference point though you'll be unable to trade market feedback. And this is critical!
Once you're getting feedback you'll also get a read on the auction, interactions between buyers and sellers and their intentions.

As an example, i trade the treasuries aside from spot.
If we get a pit open on the 10's say at 128'20 and i see aggressive trade on top of the open from buyers this is positive sign for longs. We trade for 30 mins on top of the open and then we get heavy selling that drives us under the pit open price.
If you were long on top of the pit open price would you be impressed with your longs now that we are trading red for the pit session? I don't think so. This is not a great sign and a red flag.
We had a rejection of long side trade.And something that doesn't want to go up may try the lower side of trade. If you are long on top then you are 'potentially' screwed. The quicker you can organise your *&#@ the better.

The above is a practical way of not only having a reference point but using that static point to trade feedback and gauge buying/selling and intentions.

As another example, lets say you feel the GU is better bid and is also trading above London open. You buy it according to whatever your rules say.
1 hour later though we have flipped the London open and you now see the market offering the open. Do you really want longs on top of the open? I don't.
Why?
Because quite simply the GBP was better bid and above the open, that is a really positive sign for the currency. Now we've flipped this all upside down and the market is trading below the open. Longs won't be impressed when they see offers capping trade.

So as you correctly stated having a static alone won't help you too much. You need to 'place trade' at these points and by doing so you'll know exactly what you need to do and when you need to do it.
Regards.
  • #84
  • Apr 4, 2015 2:52pm Apr 4, 2015 2:52pm
Quoting dagoods
{quote} that looks fantastic. anyone got anything like that coded they can share?
This is sierra charting dagoods.
Don't ask me about programming, i'm an ass at it lol!

Maybe one of the guys has something for MT4 etc.
It's just a few studies i added to a sierra chart. No programming necessary.

The information you can extract from this is ridiculous.
It will turn what would seem chaos, into order.
Regards
  • #85
  • Apr 4, 2015 2:58pm Apr 4, 2015 2:58pm
Quoting skfx
{quote} Yes, but they are still static. If you're moving your static reference point you're distorting performance. Can i ask Alex what the benefit would be in moving a static reference point? I can understand adding one to one that is already existing , that would make sense. Maybe this is what you mean. Sorry for the confusion. Regards.
Do you believe, like me, that market is time independent?
If yes, there is always an infinity of "now moment" that happens in sequence.
Let's say you open a trade now, after 10 minutes and after price has moved, your trade is still running, why would you manage that trade using the same conditions you used when you opened it?
Doing that, managing the trade using same entry conditions, it's like driving always a car at 10km/h because when you started it was snowing, but now, after an hour there is the sun and streets are clean, but you are still driving at 10km/h. Why would you drive at 10km/h if conditions are changed and now you can drive at 50km/h?
Here I referred to time, but I mean to manage the trade without referring to time.

Alex
  • #86
  • Apr 4, 2015 4:07pm Apr 4, 2015 4:07pm
Inserted Video
Solutions ONLY!!!
  • #87
  • Apr 4, 2015 4:57pm Apr 4, 2015 4:57pm
Quoting BillYon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zauzbx-NnAc
SOLUTIONS ONLY ! :d
  • #88
  • Apr 4, 2015 6:30pm Apr 4, 2015 6:30pm
CB just fooled us.. Showed the direction and run away!
  • #89
  • Apr 5, 2015 4:39am Apr 5, 2015 4:39am
Quoting skfx
{quote} Why do you feel it's more conclusive shiva? Regards
Because the close is where concluding decisions were taken. Although I admit the activity across hourly candles is seamless, but on weekly candles, close is very important.
  • #90
  • Apr 5, 2015 4:40am Apr 5, 2015 4:40am
Quoting tradeforlife
{quote} Shiva@ I think open is better than close as we are talking about a single candle (current candle) in which we trade. so the open of current candle is latest than the close of previous candle. just my thoughts......
Most of the time, the open is almost the same as close of previous candle.
  • #91
  • Apr 5, 2015 5:44am Apr 5, 2015 5:44am
Quoting shiva
{quote} Most of the time, the open is almost the same as close of previous candle.
Fully agree.But there are scenario where different brokers and different timeframes candles do not have closing prices equal to opening price.
The only winner is the one who survive the longest...
  • #92
  • Apr 5, 2015 5:49am Apr 5, 2015 5:49am
Actually all the traders' discussions here are valid. I found it interesting there's a new thread refuting the edge of candle stick. There are edges as well as no edges depend how one see.

-Take a blank white paper and show it to 50 people
-Ask them to stare hard and ask them what they see
-If 50 people have the same answer, draw a horizonal line in the middle.
-Ask them what's the difference between the top and bottom half.
From their answers, what do you understand?
The only winner is the one who survive the longest...
  • #93
  • Apr 5, 2015 6:05am Apr 5, 2015 6:05am
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting kinspk
There are edges as well as no edges depend how one see.
The hedge is the trader ... nothing else.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #94
  • Apr 5, 2015 6:07am Apr 5, 2015 6:07am
  •  FerruFx
  • Joined May 2007 | Status: MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder | 6,542 Posts | Online Now
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} The hedge is the trader ... nothing else.
The point is that an hedge can be found in any system/method. Some traders will find it ... some not.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #95
  • Apr 5, 2015 6:10am Apr 5, 2015 6:10am
Inserted Video




this is the link from the creator of that video
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=498942


reference point is dynamic martket is always moving


subscribe, 2 of my favorite poster is here looking foward for what are they want to share
Closer To Dream
  • #96
  • Apr 5, 2015 6:33am Apr 5, 2015 6:33am
Quoting kinspk
Actually all the traders' discussions here are valid. I found it interesting there's a new thread refuting the edge of candle stick. There are edges as well as no edges depend how one see. -Take a blank white paper and show it to 50 people -Ask them to stare hard and ask them what they see -If 50 people have the same answer, draw a horizonal line in the middle. -Ask them what's the difference between the top and bottom half. From their answers, what do you understand?
Believes dictate their decisions. Take out subjectivity and you see truth. Seeing things with subjectivity is like to complicate them. As Einstein said "Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler", doing things as simple as possible you are eliminating subjectivity, yep still not simpler.

Alex
  • #97
  • Apr 5, 2015 11:42am Apr 5, 2015 11:42am
Quoting kinspk
{quote} Fully agree.But there are scenario where different brokers and different timeframes candles do not have closing prices equal to opening price.
I would also like to point out that it is The Close which decides whether a candle is Red/Green, Doji/Hammer, IB/OB and so on.
  • #98
  • Apr 5, 2015 11:47am Apr 5, 2015 11:47am
As to trading random horizontal lines, I conducted an experiment using LFH simulator. Threw some random lines on a H1 USD/JPY chart and said, I will buy when price crosses up from below and sell when prices crosses down from above. I also used a line chart where the line color was "None" meaning I couldn't see anything on the chart but my random lines and the bid/ask price line. The test was with SL/TP = 30/30 And now the results, I didn't save it, but it was profitable. Unfortunately one can't run trailing stops and move-to-BE on a simulator, so my exits or SLs werent perfect.

Any one interested try it on a sim and see.
  • #99
  • Apr 5, 2015 5:37pm Apr 5, 2015 5:37pm
Great thread Neio. One way that I use the Open is as a reference for potential movement during the NY session. If NY opens close to the daily open, It will very much change how I place my stops and how quickly I get to BE. I may not even trade the market unless I want to try and position myself with a BE trade prior to upcoming news.

Once concept that is bandied about by the market profile folks is "Initial Balance", which is basically the range of trading within the first 30 minutes (some say 60 minutes) of market open. Obviously, Forex is a bit different and there never really is one market open, there are several. Anyhow, the idea is that there is a good chance that either the High or Low for the day is formed during the initial balance (at that point, you don't know which). It also gives you three static points of reference. The Open, balance High, and balance Low. I'm certain its possible to use these three reference points to trade, but perhaps the London open is a better point of reference that the Daily open.

Further reading:
http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...statistic.html
  • #100
  • Apr 5, 2015 11:33pm Apr 5, 2015 11:33pm
  •  Neio
  • Joined Oct 2012 | Status: Can't think outside?Enlarge the box | 688 Posts
Quoting Sciurus
Great thread Neio. One way that I use the Open is as a reference for potential movement during the NY session. If NY opens close to the daily open, It will very much change how I place my stops and how quickly I get to BE. I may not even trade the market unless I want to try and position myself with a BE trade prior to upcoming news. Once concept that is bandied about by the market profile folks is "Initial Balance", which is basically the range of trading within the first 30 minutes (some say 60 minutes) of market open. Obviously, Forex is a bit...
Hey Sciurus, thanks for stopping by!

Reference points are great in that they can also be traded but they don't need to be. The reference points help us to understand the market we are trading and keep us grounded. I like to see price move in relation to my reference points to help me know if momentum will be with my trade. But as always nothing is certain in these markets and we cannot predict the future so a reference point also helps me to know when I need to get out!

Neio
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made
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