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  • #4,921
  • Mar 4, 2015 3:43am Mar 4, 2015 3:43am
I think I'm correct in saying that those who received emails about the claim portal are the test group of 500? I received and email, so if you didn't then your part of the other 100k+ I believe.

Mystique. They are using rates on the day when alpari went bust. Your cash balance will be converted to usd at the 19-01-15 rates.
  • #4,922
  • Mar 4, 2015 3:45am Mar 4, 2015 3:45am
The one thing I'm not particularly partial to is the fact I'm now in a long term FX Trade as all my funds are being held in USD, but I prefer my funds GBP, so it's subject to the vagaries of FX. I prefer trades I can control Still no access to the Claims Portal, wonder if they're sending it the e-mails out in Alphabetical order or Account Number order.
I operate with clear definite rules, if I break them I lose BIG!
  • #4,923
  • Edited 4:00am Mar 4, 2015 3:49am | Edited 4:00am
I'm reading the "Alpari_UK_Limited_Information_Pack", dated 21st January 2015, which i found via a link published earlier in this thread.

There the client base is described as follows:

"Over 116,000 clients, with 27,000 being active in the last 12 months, 22,000 active within the last six months and 12,000 active within the last month."

So basically a client portal for "just" 12000 active taders? Or perhaps even less active ones in February?

Wonder why they just didn't simply recur to the daily account statements sent, to discuss and agree the claims.

Instead they build this portal so we all need to service ourselves and perhaps even pay for it too ....

And regarding their fees ....

I've worked alongside KPMG and the likes in a lot of projects.

All the big auditors and consultancies have a scheme of work that imho is quite unethical.

First they try to overlaod the project with staff (for instance by creating a project office where you never seem to be able to meet the same staff member twice, and the ones you get to talk to mostly just don't have a clue what's going on and have to look up things first).
Next they try to bill for senior consultants or partners, while the work behind the scene is done by interns instead.
If they get through with it, who is to blame but the stupid customer? And they very likely will get through with whatever, because they have a big name (reputation) and make their reports / advice etc quite complicated and time-consuming to read and comprehend, so in the end lots of clients just resign and accept whatever ...


Just look at what they have thrown at us after weeks of keeping silence ... well aware that for a lot of us English is only a second language and that the majority of us are "just" traders, not lawyers or accountants ...

Conclusion: never agree on their fees or to pay even one single cent of it!
  • #4,924
  • Mar 4, 2015 3:59am Mar 4, 2015 3:59am
The reason it'll be quicker to claim via the FSCS than via KPMG is that you only need to do one transaction with the FSCS, rather than a KPMG transaction followed by an FSCS transaction.

It seems that there are insufficient funds to pay out the full (up to 50k) amount. If you go via KPMG, you'll therefore eventually need to put in a separate claim to the FSCS for the difference. You can't do that, however, until after KPMG has finished the process it's going through. Assume that the FSCS processes those later for-the-difference claims at the same rate that it processes claims from people who go directly to them now. Going via KPMG first will therefore result in a delay - at least as regards the shortfall - of however long KPMG takes to get through this process.

There is no evidence that there will be any difference in total pay-out, whichever way you go. The FSCS doesn't deduct administration/liquidation costs - that wouldn't make any sense at all, because the whole point of the scheme is to insure that money is returned to investors where there are insufficient funds in the insured entity.

I should add that KPMG will certainly be milking what funds they can legitimately get away with (insolvency practitioners aren't called corporate undertakers for nothing). But for clients who are backed by the FSCS, voting against paying KPMG's fees is counter-productive and will simply delay the process further for those who choose not to go direct to the FSCS for compensation. KPMG will make roughly the same in fees irrespective of whether individuals claim via them or the FSCS.

I got my email and all of my funds are there. Still not quite sure enough about the above to commit to making a claim either way, but the amount involved is small, so I'm happy to let it lie for the moment.

I am not a lawyer, do your own research, etc.

olpip
  • #4,925
  • Mar 4, 2015 3:59am Mar 4, 2015 3:59am
Quoting Mystique
I looked at the "Retail Client statement of claim form" and noticed they didn't give an EUR/USD rate to convert our claim into USD. Instead they put it this way USD 1, EUR 0.861. Do they intend to fool us?
You don't seen like a forex trader, lol... this IS an EUR/USD rate.
"EURUSD" is just the order by which it's standard to plot it on charts, etc, but to each EURUSD there's the USDEUR equivalent, which is what they gave.
In this case, USDEUR=0,861 is equivalent to EURUSD=1,16144.
  • #4,926
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:05am Mar 4, 2015 4:05am
Quoting Mystique
And regarding their fees .... I've worked alongside KPMG and the likes in a lot of projects. All the big auditors and consultancies have a scheme of work that imho is quite unethical. First they try to overlaod the project with staff (for instance by creating a project office where you never seem to be able to meet the same staff member twice, and the ones you get to talk to mostly just don't have a clue what's going on and have to look up things first). Next they try to bill for senior consultants or partners, while the work behind the scene is...
I agree with every word of that.

Quoting Mystique
Conclusion: never agree on their fees or to pay even one single cent of it!
I'm less sure that arguing about their fees as a retail client will be productive. The creditors who are not covered by the FSCS are the ones who need to argue about this if they're unhappy, since KPMG's fees are eating into whatever funds are left in the business for distribution.

That said, if there isn't enough to cover FSCS insured clients, then there certainly won't be anything left for unsecured creditors. In that scenario, there's no incentive for anyone to argue against fees - and KPMG will be free to bill with impunity due to the absence of an interested party to argue with them!

olpip
  • #4,927
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:05am Mar 4, 2015 4:05am
Quoting tonirai
{quote} You don't seen like a forex trader, lol... this IS an EUR/USD rate. "EURUSD" is just the order by which it's standard to plot it on charts, etc, but to each EURUSD there's the USDEUR equivalent, which is what they gave. In this case, USDEUR=0,861 is equivalent to EURUSD=1,16144.
Exactly.
You have, for example, an account in EUR. 1000 euros as an example. The conversion rates you see at KPMG. Now you divide 1000 by the exchange rate. At the divisor is € 0,861. Result would therefore consists of 1000 € 1,161.44 USD.
Per aspera ad astra
  • #4,928
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:05am Mar 4, 2015 4:05am
Quoting Mystique
"Over 116,000 clients, with 27,000 being active in the last 12 months, 22,000 active within the last six months and 12,000 active within the last month." So basically a client portal for "just" 12000 active taders? Or perhaps even less active ones in February?
So by your thinking, the almost 100,000 clients who have money there but weren't active during last 12 month don't need to recover their money?
It's not just the active ones that are going to act to recover what's theirs!

You know, I do have an account at a local broker where I've parked twice as much as I have stucked in Alpari, and where I don't make a movement for more than a year... do you think, if it would blow up like Alpari did, that I wouldn't move to retrieve that money? Common... be real...
  • #4,929
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:27am Mar 4, 2015 4:27am
From KPMG:

Q. Does Alpari (UK) Limited have a client money deficit?

As far as the special administrators are aware, Alpari (UK) Limited does not have a client money deficit, however the special administrators need to reconcile the position before they can confirm this.
  • #4,930
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:39am Mar 4, 2015 4:39am
Quoting mmx007
From KPMG: Q. Does Alpari (UK) Limited have a client money deficit? As far as the special administrators are aware, Alpari (UK) Limited does not have a client money deficit, however the special administrators need to reconcile the position before they can confirm this.
Or more accurately

KPMG (including olpip's opinion): Q. Does Alpari (UK) Limited have a client money deficit? Alpari (UK) Limited does not presently have a client money deficit, however the special administrators are billing as much as possible, and at this stage can't predict whether they'll be able to legitimately bill enough to consume all funds exceeding those owed to clients.

olpip
  • #4,931
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:40am Mar 4, 2015 4:40am
Hi guys

I just wanted to let you guys know that I went with FSCS after all the researches I have done.I feel more secure at this stage going with FSCS rather than going with KPMG.
So good luck to all of you, hope we all get our money back as quickly as possible.
  • #4,932
  • Edited 4:57am Mar 4, 2015 4:46am | Edited 4:57am
Quoting tonirai
{quote} You don't seen like a forex trader, lol... this IS an EUR/USD rate. "EURUSD" is just the order by which it's standard to plot it on charts, etc, but to each EURUSD there's the USDEUR equivalent, which is what they gave. In this case, USDEUR=0,861 is equivalent to EURUSD=1,16144.
tonirai, please don't make assumptions about my (mathematical) capabilities ....lol

Kindly reread my post and you will see, that i did not ask how to calculate the rate, but why KPMG did put the rates the way they did in the first place, and how others are going about the calculation of their claim - accepting the rate KPMG suggested or use another price (for instance the daily high)

We might be forced to accept conversion, but we might not necessarily have to agree upon the rate.

The conversion back and forth will only cause more fees and problems, as my local bank accounts all run in EUR.
And of course my bank will charge for conversion.
  • #4,933
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:47am Mar 4, 2015 4:47am
Quoting magicpips
Hi guys I just wanted to let you guys know that I went with FSCS after all the researches I have done.I feel more secure at this stage going with FSCS rather than going with KPMG. So good luck to all of you, hope we all get our money back as quickly as possible.
magicpips how you are arrived at this choice? Have you being in contact with FSCS? what they said?? and tell us your reasons..i hope you made the right one.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #4,934
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:50am Mar 4, 2015 4:50am
Quoting olpip
{quote} Or more accurately KPMG (including olpip's opinion): Q. Does Alpari (UK) Limited have a client money deficit? Alpari (UK) Limited does not presently have a client money deficit, however the special administrators are billing as much as possible, and at this stage can't predict whether they'll be able to legitimately bill enough to consume all funds exceeding those owed to clients. olpip
If clients must pay to KPMG, as what KPMG says, it will be base on "pro-rata". And each clients pay the same percent of our money to KPMG. I think this is fair.
But now all the things seems to try to divide clients with two parts: client money under 50K and client money above 50k. I don't think it is fair that clients who have money above 50k will loss some money but the others will be returned full.
  • #4,935
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:54am Mar 4, 2015 4:54am
Quoting neoxis
{quote} magicpips how you are arrived at this choice? Have you being in contact with FSCS? what they said?? and tell us your reasons..i hope you made the right one.
Well, my legal advisor told me to go with FSCS as my capital is just below the threshold of £50K so I suspect FSCS would not have too many questions to ask me to make my payment.Second if I went with KPMG I felt the process will be too long as there is clients and creditros meeting and feel like there will be couple of meetings as well, so claiming the money from KPMG would be a long process,but hey these are all speculations but as I have said I feel more secure with FSCS as I can talk with them and chase my payment but with KPMG no communication at all, these are my reasons and also KPMG is kind of forcing to go with FSCS because my lawyer said KPMG must be worried there is not enough money to pay back all the clients money in full.
  • #4,936
  • Mar 4, 2015 4:55am Mar 4, 2015 4:55am
Quoting tonirai
{quote} So by your thinking, the almost 100,000 clients who have money there but weren't active during last 12 month don't need to recover their money? It's not just the active ones that are going to act to recover what's theirs! You know, I do have an account at a local broker where I've parked twice as much as I have stucked in Alpari, and where I don't make a movement for more than a year... do you think, if it would blow up like Alpari did, that I wouldn't move to retrieve that money? Common... be real...
Again you are making assumptions. Better stick to what i wrote, before blaming me for being "unreal" ...lol

Consider this:

Inactive accounts don't necessarily hold cash (i myself have switched in the past between their account types and have and old account with zero equity / balance)

In case an account wasn't active for quite a while before the SNB event, but holds cash (and no open trades) there should be no problem to agree upon the balance / equity. So these trader's claims should be the easiest / fastest to verify .... no need for any portal at all.
  • #4,937
  • Mar 4, 2015 5:01am Mar 4, 2015 5:01am
Quoting mmx007
But now all the things seems to try to divide clients with two parts: client money under 50K and client money above 50k. I don't think it is fair that clients who have money above 50k will loss some money but the others will be returned full.
If you have less than 50k, you will get it all back eventually, one way or the other.

If you have more than 50k, then you'll get the first 50k back in full, and the rest pro-rata. If there's sufficient cash, you should get it all back, but this is looking increasingly unlikely.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic - I'm not! - but if you had more than 50k with Alpari, you were playing a dangerous game, as the FSCS would never cover more than that amount.

olpip
  • #4,938
  • Mar 4, 2015 5:13am Mar 4, 2015 5:13am
I phoned the FSCS again today.
I was told they will pay 100% of your agreed balance in the portal up to £50K.
They will be updating their website soon but this is taking some time as they have to get the wording 100% right which I totally understand.
Personally im still waiting until I see or have this in writing but what I have written was confirmed over the phone.
  • #4,939
  • Mar 4, 2015 5:23am Mar 4, 2015 5:23am
Quoting olpip
{quote} If you have less than 50k, you will get it all back eventually, one way or the other. If you have more than 50k, then you'll get the first 50k back in full, and the rest pro-rata. If there's sufficient cash, you should get it all back, but this is looking increasingly unlikely. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic - I'm not! - but if you had more than 50k with Alpari, you were playing a dangerous game, as the FSCS would never cover more than that amount. olpip
Thanks anyway.
  • #4,940
  • Mar 4, 2015 5:24am Mar 4, 2015 5:24am
strange enough, i haven't receive email from them yet.

any idea?
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