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  • #4,501
  • Feb 25, 2015 4:33am Feb 25, 2015 4:33am
Quoting Tim_isoara
I am a client. I vote FOR proposal. And vote AGAINST , the fee will paid by clients( because I am a client) Alpari UK have money to pay the fee.
Attached Image


For me is important to have my money back quick.
Because I want to trade. And I think, I know, to trade.
  • #4,502
  • Feb 25, 2015 4:35am Feb 25, 2015 4:35am
Quoting jizzyjay
I will vote in favour of the proposals. Ive thought about them overnight and it all seems pretty straight forward to me now. I look at it as Alpari UK no longer exists and KPMG are only there to wind the company up to achieve the best possible outcome for both clients and creditors. Clients have their funds in the segregated accounts of that there seems to be no doubt whatsoever. The creditors have to hope that the assets of Alpari UK are sufficient enough to cover their claims which I doubt very much. So if the fee for returning client funds are...

I will vote in FOR too. I agree with you. Is not so easy like tim said. And i'm afraid than we gonna lose a very lot of time if we vote against and LESS MONEY! than anyway they do this many times i think...they just want play with us for take more money if we vote against...PEOPLE dont fall in this trick! AND VOTE FOR! and let's end this drama and take back 95% of funds as fast as possible (April) cause if we vote against more time for end and likely more fee to pay!!

VOTE FOR FOR THE BEST OUT FOR US! Thanks guys!
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #4,503
  • Feb 25, 2015 4:52am Feb 25, 2015 4:52am
I will also vote for, not because I like it, because I must and have to vote FOR if I want to see at least almost (85-?% ) my money back.
I do my living with trading, and I will do my best for me. You all have a free choice, but my opinion is, that there we have to give them something or we dont get fast anything....at least in my country courts, layers work like that.
I have in Alpari cca 32K, ofcourse I did trade on 15.,16.1., ofcorse they closed all my trades with minus, and now there is my final balance left and I want majority back asap....
Per aspera ad astra
  • #4,504
  • Feb 25, 2015 4:53am Feb 25, 2015 4:53am
Ok guys, just a few things. I have talked to the FSCS today and they told me to talk to these guys:
http://www.insolvency-practitioners.org.uk/

Both of them told me that I should ask the administrators about a legal provision that justifies taking the fees from the client pool.
I havecalled KPMG and they told me to send an email. So I wanted to share it with you guys.

Please note that I have no problem with them charging us, but they should be charging us the relevant fees and creditors and investors should be charged their fees.

I would suggest that everybody sends them the same request in their own words, so we can possibly change this part of their proposal. You will not be able to argue with their rates or hours, since this will take ages to be fought, and after all, we want to get paid soon.

Please read my email below and let me know what you think, and what action you will take?

Thanks


Dear administrators,

I have several issues with the proposal and need questions answered before the end of the week. Me and my wife have €100K+ with Aplari and we will be looking for legal advise if necessary.

Please let me know the following:

 

  1. by what legal provision are you paying your fees out of retail clients' monies?


My understanding is that Alpari went bankrupt and client funds are in tact it seems. I understand that time will be taken to sort out the specific amount in the pool and how to distribute that money. I am willing to pay for my pro rata share of costs involved in recovering our monies. However 90% of your costs had nothing to do with us, which I will get to later.

The steps I would expect you to take are the following:

  1. pay positive balances of retail client accounts on a pro rata basis of what's in the client pool (apparently 100%)
  2. try to make the most of the company assets (sale of inventory, IP, claims against negative balances etc.)
  3. pay your fees from company assets (according to what you have shared, there are plenty to cover your cost!
  4. pay creditors on a pro rata basis of what is left after 2) and 3) are done
  5. if anything is left, pay the remaining amount to the shareholders


Regarding your costs incurred, I will only make a few more notes at this time:

I do not agree with many of your fees. Regarding the communication charges I can only say that, my wife and I as well as most people in forums and other clients I know have only received automated emails from you and seen only a few update documents on the portal. (My guess is that you responded to all corporate creditors and retail clients are paying the bill for that)
However, also 90% of your fees relate to investors/shareholders and creditors in Alpari only. What do I as a retail investor care about "health and safety", "employee communication"? It has nothing to do with me or are you telling me that while I am eating at a restaurant and the restaurant goes out of business while I am there, they will take my Burger away and then tell me that I have to pay for the cleaning lady to clean up the place?

What about the sale of the business and the costs incurred there? Again my question what I really care about these fees?
Would this mean that if a sale would have gone through at let's say GBP100Mio, retail clients would have shared in the profits from the sale on a pro rata basis as well? I think not! So why would I pay for those fees? This belongs to investors and creditors, not to retail clients!

Anyhow, I expect real human answers this time, no automated emails!

Kind regards,
XXX

  • #4,505
  • Feb 25, 2015 4:59am Feb 25, 2015 4:59am
Quoting madsuh
Please note that I have no problem with them charging us, but they should be charging us the relevant fees and creditors and investors should be charged their fees.
Agreed.
We need to have a detailed breakdown of the fees accumulated in dealing with clients interests only. I do however see the possibility of some overlap between clients and creditors interests.
  • #4,506
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:10am Feb 25, 2015 5:10am
Quoting shail31
{quote} Dude calm down.You are very quick to judge people.
Don't mind him. He's the God of trading. We're all idiots to him.
  • #4,507
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:15am Feb 25, 2015 5:15am
Quoting shail31
{quote} Dude use nitro pro.You can then enter your details.Once you have done that the problem is how you can sign it.There is a feature in nitro pro which allows you to quick sign ,use it. So you don't have to print or scan anything.Thanks to navin for the info. Please let me know if you still have any problems filling the form.
Thanks, pal. I'll give it a try!
  • #4,508
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:20am Feb 25, 2015 5:20am
I have the sensation...nothing will end 12 march and will be another court appeal for kpmg for taking time. What a mess.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #4,509
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:24am Feb 25, 2015 5:24am
Quoting emanco
{quote} Don't mind him. He's the God of trading. We're all idiots to him.

not a problem, if there is overlap, we can share the cost on a pro rata basis. For example, if we are owed 60m and creditors are owed 20m then those cost should be shared 75% client money and 25% creditors.

In general our fees should be:

  1. communication and preparation of information with and for clients
  2. peparing client statements and settling inaccurate closes of positions
  3. consolidating client bank accounts)
  4. building the claims portal
  5. money transfer costs

Any guesses where we would have overlap?

  • #4,510
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:25am Feb 25, 2015 5:25am
Quoting jizzyjay
{quote} Agreed. We need to have a detailed breakdown of the fees accumulated in dealing with clients interests only. I do however see the possibility of some overlap between clients and creditors interests.

this is the one I tried to quote

not a problem, if there is overlap, we can share the cost on a pro rata basis. For example, if we are owed 60m and creditors are owed 20m then those cost should be shared 75% client money and 25% creditors.

In general our fees should be:

 

  1. communication and preparation of information with and for clients
  2. peparing client statements and settling inaccurate closes of positions
  3. consolidating client bank accounts)
  4. building the claims portal
  5. money transfer costs


Any guesses where we would have overlap?

  • #4,511
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:32am Feb 25, 2015 5:32am
Quoting madsuh
{quote} Any guesses where we would have overlap?
This is what im trying to work out at the minute.
They could for instance say that trying to sell the company as a whole was in both creditors and clients interests as an example.
  • #4,512
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:36am Feb 25, 2015 5:36am
Quoting jizzyjay
{quote} This is what im trying to work out at the minute. They could for instance say that trying to sell the company as a whole was in both creditors and clients interests as an example.

yes, they could... but really, we should not have received anything from a sale. The only positive would have been, that we could have continued to remain clients, but as far as interested go, I am not a shareholder and I am not a creditor, so why care.
  • #4,513
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:37am Feb 25, 2015 5:37am
Quoting madsuh
Ok guys, just a few things. I have talked to the FSCS today and they told me to talk to these guys: http://www.insolvency-practitioners.org.uk/ Both of them told me that I should ask the administrators about a legal provision that justifies taking the fees from the client pool. I havecalled KPMG and they told me to send an email. So I wanted to share it with you guys. Please note that I have no problem with them charging us, but they should be charging us the relevant fees and creditors and investors should be charged their fees. I would...
Let us know how that goes. My attitude is that if KPMG ask me to pay X amount and i think X seem to much for what ever reason, i will deal with that when it happens. If X is an outrageous fee like 50% of my account, i will get very angry and if they insist, i will get a lot more angry.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #4,514
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:40am Feb 25, 2015 5:40am
Quoting madsuh
{quote} yes, they could... but really, we should not have received anything from a sale. The only positive would have been, that we could have continued to remain clients, but as far as interested go, I am not a shareholder and I am not a creditor, so why care.
Yep fair point.
All we want is our money back so sale or no sale of the company, it does not affect our outcome so your right.
  • #4,515
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:43am Feb 25, 2015 5:43am
Quoting yaed
{quote} Let us know how that goes. My attitude is that if KPMG ask me to pay X amount and i think X seem to much for what ever reason, i will deal with that when it happens. If X is an outrageous fee like 50% of my account, i will get very angry and if they insist, i will get a lot more angry.

the question is whether we can change the proposal before it goes on a vote. One thing I can tell you for sure, you will not be able to negotiate their fees. If anything, we can negotiate beforehand what percentage of the fees would be covered by us and what percentage by creditors and shareholders.

I would think about the following initiative, we put together a counter-proposal, where we specifically ask them to change the fee structure so that clients are only charged their relevant charges. I wonder whether we can send a single letter, or have it done via Leaprate, as the petition was done. The important thing is that we act now before it gets voted on. If nothing changes until the vote, you have no choice but to vote "yes", if you want to see a large part of your money before the end of the year.
  • #4,516
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:48am Feb 25, 2015 5:48am
Quoting madsuh
{quote} I would think about the following initiative, we put together a counter-proposal, where we specifically ask them to change the fee structure so that clients are only charged their relevant charges.
Now this I like.
Whether its possible is something that will have to be looked into.
  • #4,517
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:53am Feb 25, 2015 5:53am
Quoting forexTN14
for a non english speaker, can someone explain me what they mean with "proxy" ? is this person who will take "action" me after I ve voted him & and who is this person ( from company or Kpmg ) ? Thx
a proxy is a person who will represent you and will vote according to your wishes
  • #4,518
  • Feb 25, 2015 5:53am Feb 25, 2015 5:53am
Quoting madsuh
{quote} this is the one I tried to quote not a problem, if there is overlap, we can share the cost on a pro rata basis. For example, if we are owed 60m and creditors are owed 20m then those cost should be shared 75% client money and 25% creditors. In general our fees should be: communication and preparation of information with and for clients peparing client statements and settling inaccurate closes of positions consolidating client bank accounts) building the claims portal money transfer costs Any guesses where we would have overlap?
You raise some excellent questions in ur email to KPMG and i hope they answer you and that you post it here as i would be very intrested in what they reply.

On the other hand, $99.3million are designated client money or trust accounts.
The costs that will be deducted from client pool is in excess of £2mil($3.1mil).
This is 3.12% of the total pool, which means clients will get back 96.88% of their funds.

Lets say that creditors pays 25% of the fees and clients pay 75% as you suggest.
0.75*$3.1mil=$2.325mil out of $99.3mil which means 2.34% will be taken out of pool to pay KPMG fees, leaving 97,66% left in the pool.

So my question is would you accept their fees and get 96,88% back in March/April or would you contest their claim, maybe win the claim, and get 97,66% back at a later date?

To me the answer is simple.
  • #4,519
  • Feb 25, 2015 6:01am Feb 25, 2015 6:01am
Quoting jizzyjay
{quote} Now this I like. Whether its possible is something that will have to be looked into.
Ok, how do we get this started?
How do we reach enough clients?

My idea would be to collaborate on a document via Google Docs, where we state what we think would be a better approach, then ...

a) ... by the end of this week, we offer a download link. Everybody interested could download it, add their personal details to it, sign it and send it to the Administrators.
b) ... alternatively, we could do something similar to the petition that Leaprate did, where we collect an Excel file with Names and account numbers and account values on them and submit this to them
c) ... prepare a document, coordinate with Leaprate to promote this and send it to them

I think, Leaprate tried to help before and maybe they are the ones to contact for something like this. If they can help, that would be great.

Let me know what you guys think?
  • #4,520
  • Feb 25, 2015 6:04am Feb 25, 2015 6:04am
Quoting TheBody
{quote} So my question is would you accept their fees and get 96,88% back in March/April or would you contest their claim, maybe win the claim, and get 97,66% back at a later date? To me the answer is simple.
I agree. I don't care if they over charge us with 1%, let's get this thing over with!
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