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Matrix Grid Trading Community Edition

  • #1,701
  • Feb 24, 2015 2:02pm Feb 24, 2015 2:02pm
Quoting BillYon
{quote} No ver 1.1 depends on Community trend so you cannot set it for longs only. It will not trade long if community trend is down. Thats why I let 1.1 lead and use 1.0 to hedge as it can take trade without community trend needed
But what I was saying is, suppose you start out with Community trend long and 1.1 trading such. Grid opens and trend changes, so you leave 1.1 going to continue until it closes grid. Meanwhile you set 1.0 to take shorts only (that way it won't take any more longs if internal trend (if I understand what makes it want to go long or short) hasn't shifted short yet.
Turn off 1.1 when it closes grid. When trend changes back up turn on 1.1 to take longs and allow 1.0 to close the short grid.

So instead of the above do you just hedge short with 1.0 until 1.1 closes the long grid and then shut off 1.0 and let 1.1 take the new direction short.

Sorry to belabor the point but I want to be clear.
  • #1,702
  • Feb 24, 2015 2:50pm Feb 24, 2015 2:50pm
The hedge strategy is interesting but does have many challenges (margin cost, uncertainty which direction is correct, and improper hedge ratio). I've tried this strategy manually before with correlated pairs. See my post here: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...07#post7195007

I find it hard to decide when to close the winning trade as you will come to the point where you will not know when the trend has change. Maybe BillYon is depending on the CE 1.1 to tell when trend has changed back to stop hedging, but even then, the hedge amount is off. The edge is that it will at least me picking off trades in the right trend direction, but it will not amount to the same extend as the one in loss. In fact, it will not go past many trades unless trend has changed back, in which it will open more trades and now you have both pairs in loss (in a pseudo hedge way). The proper hedge would be to have both begin making trades from the first trade (as in my post). But even then, when you close the winning trade, you have a losing one to manage. You are still stuck with deciding the best place for reversal. If you close your winning and the trend doesn't change, your losing trades will still take you out. Hedge currency trades are only more useful in currency correlation arbitrage or I guess risk mitigation in which you open a single trade equal to that of your loss of a proper hedge. Then your profit will depend on the cross pair direction. At any rate, it will be... a challenge and waiting game that needs a big account for lots of margin. For me, 50:1 leverage, forget it. I'll run out of margin during major trend reversals while the account not being able to make substantial gains.

CE 1.1 is good, but is still needs management for decent gains. Here is my current 1 week results, in which I had to manage two recent trades.

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The trade would have gone into profit today, but I got out early since it was high risk in the case it doesn't. The last two trades was in DD enough to wipe out 4 days of profit, which wasn't much (about 10%) but enough for me to consider intervening. I stopped the EA and managed manually to get out with small loss. It was a good test on a real account psychology wise. I was trying to mimmick arbinka's trade explorer, but due to low leverage, I was using a lot of margin (about 60-70%, which didn't leave me with much left to work with. This is the reason why I chose only 3 pairs NU, AU, and UJ, as they did not get "stuck" ask often and came into profit normally within 5 trade basket). You'll need about 500:1 leverage for the lot size to account ratio arbinka is using.

Anyways, that concludes my test for that setting (gave me about 2-2.5% profit per trading day on just 3 pairs, minimum lot 0.01 on $1000 account). Au was best performer. UJ has many 5 trade sticky points. NU only had 1 sticky point. Average trades ranged from 1 to 3 trade baskets. at default CE 1.1 setting. Based on this, I would recommend lower lot size for UJ and NU and bigger spacing and/or take profit.
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #1,703
  • Feb 24, 2015 3:04pm Feb 24, 2015 3:04pm
Quoting spyderman
{quote} But what I was saying is, suppose you start out with Community trend long and 1.1 trading such. Grid opens and trend changes, so you leave 1.1 going to continue until it closes grid. Meanwhile you set 1.0 to take shorts only (that way it won't take any more longs if internal trend (if I understand what makes it want to go long or short) hasn't shifted short yet. Turn off 1.1 when it closes grid. When trend changes back up turn on 1.1 to take longs and allow 1.0 to close the short grid. So instead of the above do you just hedge short with...
I don't think you need to ever close CE 1.1, as the grid closes, it will use the new correct trend direction, which it currently has. However, you can turn it off IF you want to stop it from making trades to limit losses as it moves further in DD, sufficing the better take profit from a better average price. It's a tradeoff you'll have to decide. So in this scenario, you would only turn on/off the CE 1.0 version.
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #1,704
  • Feb 24, 2015 3:58pm Feb 24, 2015 3:58pm
Quoting spyderman
{quote} But what I was saying is, suppose you start out with Community trend long and 1.1 trading such. Grid opens and trend changes, so you leave 1.1 going to continue until it closes grid. Meanwhile you set 1.0 to take shorts only (that way it won't take any more longs if internal trend (if I understand what makes it want to go long or short) hasn't shifted short yet. Turn off 1.1 when it closes grid. When trend changes back up turn on 1.1 to take longs and allow 1.0 to close the short grid. So instead of the above do you just hedge short with...

Hedge short on 1.0 until 1.1 closes. When 1.1 closes you will disable it (1.1) so it won't take any trades, but you use it (Community trend detection does not work on 1.0) for notice of when the Community trend changes again back to up. When this happens you start allowing 1.1 to trade long again while leaving 1.0 trading short until the grid closes. When the grid on 1.0 closes you disable it from taking trades until the next trend change.
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  • #1,705
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:09pm Feb 24, 2015 4:09pm
Quoting BillYon
{quote} I manage DD myself. Max DD in any grid system is a blown account so let be clear on this. So 4 pairs would go like this. Say you have 20k open first pair Eur/USD only lot will be .04 on verion 1.1 and 1.0 as I make my first 5K I will now add my second pair at .01 lots Next 5k add 3rd pair and so on. Now when you have all 4 pairs (I like EU, AU, NU, GU), each feed each other to build up lots like a pump station If you are not going to use the option to hedge all the time, this is what you do EUR/USD in uptrend on version 1.1 and we have...
Thanks! I will test a variation with two pairs :-). You can do this with just CE 1.1. You just have to turn the hedge one on after the change. Cheers!
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #1,706
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:15pm Feb 24, 2015 4:15pm
Quoting BillYon
{quote} Hedge short on 1.0 until 1.1 closes. When 1.1 closes you will disable it (1.1) so it won't take any trades, but you use it (Community trend detection does not work on 1.0) for notice of when the Community trend changes again back to up. When this happens you start allowing 1.1 to trade long again while leaving 1.0 trading short until the grid closes. When the grid on 1.0 closes you disable it from taking trades until the next trend change.
I understood your idea perfectly....but i only have a problem that i dont have 1.0 and i will wait for GT to release updated version or release 1.0 here for hedge..

thanks for your effort...
  • #1,707
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:15pm Feb 24, 2015 4:15pm
Where i can get the 1.0 version? Or where i can buy it? i want test it like Billyon. Thank you.
  • #1,708
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:19pm Feb 24, 2015 4:19pm
Let me keep it simple.

For the idea we are calling hedge the only thing i'm doing is trading a setting in both directions using 1 ea for longs and the other for shorts.

The only difficulty is that ver 1.1 cannot be forced to take trades against the direction of the community trend. So for now we must make adjustments.

it's not hedge.

The key is the setting not the strategy!


The settings I gave were tested and I noticed that no matter what direction the trade took it was profitable regardless of trend or anything. So If trend is up I can short and make money AND I can take longs and make money.

Put it together on one chart and BAM! I'm always in play.

So I started testing and still am...

Most settings are trend dependent but these seem not so trying this on the default 10 10 10 set is not recommended. We already witnessed that blow accounts last month


So there it is in a nutshell
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  • #1,709
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:26pm Feb 24, 2015 4:26pm
You don't have to do the confusing hedge thing. Just test the setting on 1.1

I feel the community trend itself will give it more of an edge. We are still testing that!
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  • #1,710
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:32pm Feb 24, 2015 4:32pm
Look way back on page 17 and you will see where Sekhbet dropped these test results. Look at the settings. I been on it ever since!

Thats why I keep telling people to read the thread again. Not to be an ass. I'm not that way


Many great result and settings to test!
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  • #1,711
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:33pm Feb 24, 2015 4:33pm
Quoting shg
{quote} I understood your idea perfectly....but i only have a problem that i dont have 1.0 and i will wait for GT to release updated version or release 1.0 here for hedge.. thanks for your effort...
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  • #1,712
  • Feb 24, 2015 4:38pm Feb 24, 2015 4:38pm
hello everyone,

yesterday's tally....
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  • #1,713
  • Feb 24, 2015 5:41pm Feb 24, 2015 5:41pm
Quoting BillYon
You don't have to do the confusing hedge thing. Just test the setting on 1.1 I feel the community trend itself will give it more of an edge. We are still testing that! {image}
What's the leverage for this bro?
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #1,714
  • Feb 24, 2015 7:19pm Feb 24, 2015 7:19pm
Quoting qFish
{quote} What's the leverage for this bro?

50:1
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  • #1,715
  • Feb 24, 2015 7:49pm Feb 24, 2015 7:49pm
Quoting BillYon
{quote} 50:1
Oh wow, that's awesome!
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #1,716
  • Feb 25, 2015 2:22am Feb 25, 2015 2:22am
What does "when grid closes" referring to? Is it when a version (either 1.0 or 1.1) closes out its last remaining open trade?
I love forex. One day it will love me back.
  • #1,717
  • Feb 25, 2015 2:40am Feb 25, 2015 2:40am
Quoting Singha83
What does "when grid closes" referring to? Is it when a version (either 1.0 or 1.1) closes out its last remaining open trade?

when target price is hit.
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  • #1,718
  • Feb 25, 2015 2:50am Feb 25, 2015 2:50am
Hi Bill
Have you tried 2 charts with 1.0 on each one ?
The first one buy only and the second one short only...
and both with trend trading yes
In this case, the system is automatic....ok ?
If the trend is up and the first one is taking buy, it continues to the end
but if the trend is changing, the second one is selling
[EDIT I'm not sure it's working because we need 2 different magic number]
  • #1,719
  • Feb 25, 2015 3:20am Feb 25, 2015 3:20am
Quoting madscalp
Hi Bill Have you tried 2 charts with 1.0 on each one ? The first one buy only and the second one short only... and both with trend trading yes In this case, the system is automatic....ok ? If the trend is up and the first one is taking buy, it continues to the end but if the trend is changing, the second one is selling [EDIT I'm not sure it's working because we need 2 different magic number]

right.

need magic number.
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  • #1,720
  • Feb 25, 2015 3:59am Feb 25, 2015 3:59am
Another Idea i'm just thinking of for the 4 horseman setup (This setup is leaving both 1.0 and 1.1 at all times during the week if you did not understand.)

OK, So what we don't want is all of them in extreme drawdown at at the same time. the same time thus eating up margin. So what I'm thinking is not starting each horse (pair) at the same time. For example when the week starts we active vate 1 horse (pair) every 3 hours hours so. Thus way DD will not be so correlated.


This may or may not be effective so it's just a thought.

What do you think?

I'll test this on a new demo
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