Alpari.co.uk Discussion | Page 203 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Alpari UK Insolvency Does Not Affect Other Alpari Companies 4 replies

Alpari US vs Alpari UK 20 replies

Alpari NZ vs Alpari UK 7 replies

Alpari Direct Pro vs Alpari MT4 Pro 4 replies

Alpari Russia, Alpari UK or MIG??? 5 replies

Attachments: Alpari.co.uk Discussion
Exit Attachments

Alpari.co.uk Discussion

  • #4,041
  • Edited 12:11pm Feb 10, 2015 11:51am | Edited 12:11pm
The whole thing smell "fishy" from the onset. The worst are now coming out. The owners of Alpari UK deliberately sank the ship and took off with their loots on a speedboat. SNB announcement provided the perfect cover. This is indeed a perfect crime!

This is capitalism at its best, the strong destroying the weak.

Quoting Articulate
This is becoming trickier by the day. I can feel a very long wait for everybody involved unless a buyer emerge this week. Some brokers have come up with attractive incentives including up 50% bonus on opening deposit to lure away Alpari clients. If these brokers succeed in getting most of these clients, who will buy Alpari? My final take on this matter is hope for the best, but expect the worst!
  • #4,042
  • Feb 10, 2015 12:16pm Feb 10, 2015 12:16pm
Quoting Jadgeha
Tell this smart owner That our money are still stuck in Alpari uk Save the bonus for next time M.."......F?.......".. {quote} Tell me bro when you have a big account that you make a leaving out And suddenly Alpari group and uk the succeful group block the money of their client And we are already in the 4th week still all we had is bullshit

Everyone has to understand that Alpari UK has nothing to do with the fact that the money is being held into segregated account, that account is now under control of KPMG.

I can only be thankful, that there even is such a segregated account with client money in it and KPMG has said that so far they have not found any money missing. Alpari UK has fallowed all regulations as far as I am aware.

Alpari UK has gone insolvent because they paid to LP what they could from their money (I guess to keep relationship going), and actually all this mess was made by clients, not Alpari UK themselves. Because they paid from their money to LP's they do not meet regulations to keep operate, as there have to be certain "Buffer" of capital to be a forex broker. And rumour is that the other owners are the ones who have not been willing contribute and make financial injections into company. as it has been mentioned before "Russian" shareholder sort of have seen something like this coming, but other shareholders were not on the same boat.
  • #4,043
  • Feb 10, 2015 12:25pm Feb 10, 2015 12:25pm
Quoting wantsomepips
{quote} Everyone has to understand that Alpari UK has nothing to do with the fact that the money is being held into segregated account, that account is now under control of KPMG. I can only be thankful, that there even is such a segregated account with client money in it and KPMG has said that so far they have not found any money missing. Alpari UK has fallowed all regulations as far as I am aware. Alpari UK has gone insolvent because they paid to LP what they could from their money (I guess to keep relationship going), and actually all this mess...

The clients are not at fault..alpari risk management system is non existant..that is why we are in this mess, even if u had a close stop..price may have gapped over it and led to negative equity..it is just a case of the ship has taken a beating and they decided to pull the plug..we now must be patient and see what happens..

just be thankfull because if u trading the swissy u could have been in a position where laywers are chasing u for money..life ruining stuff
  • #4,044
  • Edited 12:47pm Feb 10, 2015 12:37pm | Edited 12:47pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} The clients are not at fault..alpari risk management system is non existant..that is why we are in this mess, even if u had a close stop..price may have gapped over it and led to negative equity..it is just a case of the ship has taken a beating and they decided to pull the plug..we now must be patient and see what happens.. just be thankfull because if u trading the swissy u could have been in a position where laywers are chasing u for money..life ruining stuff

Well explain what is this "Alpari risk management system" ........???

Alpari itself does not trade, simply because they make enough money from clients and that is their business.
Brokers do not control risk for their clients, no one does. Only with leverage they sort of can manage something but in this CHF move you would be done with 1:4 leverage. And ,what I gather on this forum, many "super smart" clients have a norm to trade with 200-500 leverage.
  • #4,045
  • Feb 10, 2015 12:54pm Feb 10, 2015 12:54pm
Quoting wantsomepips
{quote} Well explain what is this "Alpari risk management system" ........??? Alpari itself does not trade, simply because they make enough money from clients and that is their business. Brokers do not control risk for their clients, no one does. Only with leverage they sort of can manage something but in this CHF move you would be done with 1:4 leverage. And ,what I gather on this forum, many "super smart" clients have a norm to trade with 200-500 leverage.

I am certainly not somebody who can answer this technically but alpari i thought had a system in place where u had to trade within your margin requirements..every trade i had ever required me to lose 3k pips at least in order to find out whether they did not not.

I assumed they did!! ..now if they did and it worked ie traders positions were liqiudated once there margins were used up..would we be where we are now. I think not.

( I asked alpari specifically when i joined to be able to place microlot positions to give extra control over money management..I never ever took advantage of high leverage..im just not that sort of trader and my win rate was exceptionaly high).
  • #4,046
  • Feb 10, 2015 1:12pm Feb 10, 2015 1:12pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} I am certainly not somebody who can answer this technically but alpari i thought had a system in place where u had to trade within your margin requirements..every trade i had ever required me to lose 3k pips at least in order to find out whether they did not not. I assumed they did!! ..now if they did and it worked ie traders positions were liqiudated once there margins were used up..would we be where we are now. I think not. ( I asked alpari specifically when i joined to be able to place microlot positions to give extra control over money...

Yeah......looks like you have not learned anything in this.

Which part of........THERE IS NO MARKET TO LIQUADATE ANY POSITION (MAKE ANY TRANSACTION) you do not understand???
For someone to buy something there has to be someone who sells something and vice versa.

In this case, if no liquidity providers are selling/buying CHF pairs, for you to buy/sell and cover your short/long positions at your stop level...........what is broker supposed to do??? Broker does not have anything to sell or buy, they are middleman. Kind of makes sense for broker to buy/sell CHF pairs at next available price. Even, If it is way below your stop.

Who is responsible that you (not you particularly) made those CHF pair trades in first place???
  • #4,047
  • Feb 10, 2015 1:22pm Feb 10, 2015 1:22pm
So, even if you trade with a stop loss, its not gonna save your account in an event like the CHF move!! What we need are the brokers to Guarantee the Stop Loss... and also have negative balance protection!
  • #4,048
  • Feb 10, 2015 1:22pm Feb 10, 2015 1:22pm
Quoting wantsomepips
{quote} Yeah......looks like you have not learned anything in this. Which part of........THERE IS NO MARKET TO LIQUADATE ANY POSITION (MAKE ANY TRANSACTION) you do not understand??? For someone to buy something there has to be someone who sells something and vice versa. In this case, if no liquidity providers are selling/buying CHF pairs, for you to buy/sell and cover your short/long positions at your stop level...........what is broker supposed to do??? Broker does not have anything to sell or buy, they are middleman. Kind of makes sense for broker...
at the time i buy someone is selling and vica versa what are u telling me? ..that nobody was buying the swissy when it was tanking or vica versa..next your going to be saying that the broker was not trading, if u believe this..then your incredibly naive

bottom line alpari did not stick to there margin policy very well..it funny how i dont see a cascade of brokers falling over this..if your reasoning is valid..why is it so isolated?

anyway does any of this actually matter..
  • #4,049
  • Feb 10, 2015 1:28pm Feb 10, 2015 1:28pm
Quoting ewinner
So, even if you trade with a stop loss, its not gonna save your account in an event like the CHF move!! What we need are the brokers to Guarantee the Stop Loss... and also have negative balance protection!
You need not ECN broker in this case. Market maker and brokers that match their client buy/sell with other clients buy/sell.
  • #4,050
  • Feb 10, 2015 1:43pm Feb 10, 2015 1:43pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} at the time i buy someone is selling and vica versa what are u telling me? ..that nobody was buying the swissy when it was tanking or vica versa..next your going to be saying that the broker was not trading, if u believe this..then your incredibly naive bottom line alpari did not stick to there margin policy very well..it funny how i dont see a cascade of brokers falling over this..if your reasoning is valid..why is it so isolated? anyway does any of this actually matter..
It is the idea and pretty much that is how it is happening...there were many people that wanted to buy swissy, but Alpari does not match client orders with other clients, if you want that, you would need to choose not ECN broker.

Alpari might have an account for trades, but that has nothing to do with its core business, it would be segregated account, set apart.

Why do not you read you margin policy first.
It clearly says if stops can not be executed at one price it will be executed at next available price. That is their policy and that is what happened.

Majority of brokers are not ECN and the ones who are most likely suffered, we just do not know about it.

If it keeps you happier............other brokers had smarter clients, they did not use such a leverage, and really smart traders do not trade manipulated currencies at all.
  • #4,051
  • Edited 2:02pm Feb 10, 2015 1:47pm | Edited 2:02pm
Quoting wantsomepips
{quote} Well explain what is this "Alpari risk management system" ........??? Alpari itself does not trade, simply because they make enough money from clients and that is their business. Brokers do not control risk for their clients, no one does. Only with leverage they sort of can manage something but in this CHF move you would be done with 1:4 leverage. And ,what I gather on this forum, many "super smart" clients have a norm to trade with 200-500 leverage.
​Alpari is indeed at fault here. They had to rise the margin requirements for the CHF pairs when they saw the positions building to the dangerous levels. There were a few traders who expected the barrier to fall, but it was a tiny minority. I heard that more than 95% of chf positions were to short Swissy. That is dangerously one-sided. A broker with more sensible risk management would not keep it. Everyone knew that if the floor was to be removed it would be a big gap, 2000 pips is a lot and I would not blame anyone to not expect that, but looking at the statements it seems Alpari capital would have fallen below FCA requirements even at 300-400 pips gap which was totally a possibility.
If they worked properly they would have called that person from 2 pages ago who had a margin call at 1.20+ price and asked him how he is going to pay them back if the floor was to be removed. And if he said he did not know they should have seriously risen margin requirements for him. The price in the last days of the floor around 1.2010, if someone had a margin call at 1.2000 they were insanely leveraged. If it was only one person it would have been just his problem. But I am sure that there were a lot of such people greedy for fast money.
Saying that, I must stress that Alpari management was stupid, but stupidity is not a crime. Despite their bravado, they lost a business bringing millions each year. And I suspect that Alpari Russia had similar losses just being unregulated and not having any margin requirements they can hide them for the time being, hoping to cover them from other clients profits in following years.
Wookey
  • #4,052
  • Edited 3:07pm Feb 10, 2015 2:55pm | Edited 3:07pm
Quoting ewinner
So, even if you trade with a stop loss, its not gonna save your account in an event like the CHF move!! What we need are the brokers to Guarantee the Stop Loss... and also have negative balance protection!
IG gives guaranteed stop but no negative balance protection,forexpro offers no negative balance but there is no
guaranteed stop. There obviously are others but these are the two I spoke to.
  • #4,053
  • Feb 10, 2015 3:03pm Feb 10, 2015 3:03pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} at the time i buy someone is selling and vica versa what are u telling me? ..that nobody was buying the swissy when it was tanking or vica versa..next your going to be saying that the broker was not trading, if u believe this..then your incredibly naive bottom line alpari did not stick to there margin policy very well..it funny how i dont see a cascade of brokers falling over this..if your reasoning is valid..why is it so isolated? anyway does any of this actually matter..
Yes,i agree alpari messed big time,some people keep repeating there were no buyers.where is the proof??.Tomorrow the same situation can be applied
elsewhere in a smaller sense and again they will say no liquidity,price gapped,these sheep will say"yes sir" it gapped.I agree chf move was massive and there
surely was a big gap but I doubt there were no buyers around 1.195-1.20.Some people even with SL above 1.20 were not executed.
  • #4,054
  • Feb 10, 2015 3:19pm Feb 10, 2015 3:19pm
Where exactly Alpari messed up big time, can you please explain to my stupid brain?

Of course there were people willing to buy and sell at any price, but Alpari UK does not deal with any person, they deal with LP's and if they do not sell, Alpari UK did not have much of a choice.

brokers like alpari live on commotion, they want you trade more. and for you to trade more that means making money in forex. They are more interested in you winning.
  • #4,055
  • Feb 10, 2015 3:26pm Feb 10, 2015 3:26pm
Quoting wantsomepips
Where exactly Alpari messed up big time, can you please explain to my stupid brain? Of course there were people willing to buy and sell at any price, but Alpari UK does not deal with any person, they deal with LP's and if they do not sell, Alpari UK did not have much of a choice. brokers like alpari live on commotion, they want you trade more. and for you to trade more that means making money in forex. They are more interested in you winning.
Alpari UK is dead ,is that not proof enough for you?
  • #4,056
  • Feb 10, 2015 3:56pm Feb 10, 2015 3:56pm
Technically they are insolvent.......not dead.

but I accept the fact that there were some managerial issues (whatever they might be) but it is not fair to blame it all on that, there were also market conditions and traders with their positions.
And they mismanaged those positions.

But to be fair we do not know enough to judge anything.
  • #4,057
  • Feb 10, 2015 4:15pm Feb 10, 2015 4:15pm
Quoting wantsomepips
Technically they are insolvent.......not dead. but I accept the fact that there were some managerial issues (whatever they might be) but it is not fair to blame it all on that, there were also market conditions and traders with their positions. And they mismanaged those positions. But to be fair we do not know enough to judge anything.
I do not think u are a very good trader u simply cannot understand that the reason we are here is because of alpari fullstop. Instead u are bringing in a lot of variables..in trading there are a million reasons why prices move..if u focus on them all u will never place a trade

the variable apply to other brokers as well..alpari sunk!!..this mean they were not able to do something that other brokers could..they are at fault fullstop, u cannot deny this..yet u are trying..just keep it simple

also alpari UK is looking for a buyer..yet the alpari fanchaise wont touch it with a barge pole..that in itself says so much, how the hell will any1 else touch it. I think trying to make sense of why u are saying what u are, is because u think its our fault for choosing alpari..which if the case, is utter madness

I dont understand why u are defending alpari
  • #4,058
  • Feb 10, 2015 4:46pm Feb 10, 2015 4:46pm
Divide and conquer have any of you ever heard about it.... if we are all in the same boat, which means, my 40k are not in my possesion. It does not matter whether you had 1k in your account or 20k. Just please make this thread constructive. I log on hoping to find good and positive replies. Good news, and instead you are all fighting each other.... weird human beings... really weird.
  • #4,059
  • Feb 10, 2015 9:56pm Feb 10, 2015 9:56pm
Quoting wantsomepips
{quote} Yeah......looks like you have not learned anything in this. Which part of........THERE IS NO MARKET TO LIQUADATE ANY POSITION (MAKE ANY TRANSACTION) you do not understand??? For someone to buy something there has to be someone who sells something and vice versa. In this case, if no liquidity providers are selling/buying CHF pairs, for you to buy/sell and cover your short/long positions at your stop level...........what is broker supposed to do??? Broker does not have anything to sell or buy, they are middleman. Kind of makes sense for broker...
My margin call should have been triggered above 1.2000 and it didn't (not fully). So, you want to say that Alpari software is great, but there were no buyers ABOVE 1.2000?
Of course it is their fault. My fault is that I lost my money. Their fault is everything I lost more than that. And by simply saying you can lose more than you can invest, they didn't protect themselves, cause that can be interpreted in multiple ways. If I invested 100, made 200, lost 200, I've lost more then I invested. If they think they can cover everything with few sentences, then good luck to them. I never asked them to give me any money. They always say we leverage YOUR MONEY 10,100,200,500 times. Not, we will give you the money and leverage it to trade with.
And, even if it was true, if one could go negative, why did they close the trades then? They should have left the positions opened it it was my money, and eventually CHF would go above 1.20. If not, still my responsibility and I should decide when to close it, not them.
That clearly show that negative balance is not customer responsibility, leverage is way they attract customers and make money but this time they gambled bit to much and lost . And quite a few brokers that "forgave" negative balance prove my point.
  • #4,060
  • Feb 10, 2015 11:11pm Feb 10, 2015 11:11pm
Quoting mojo123
{quote} My margin call should have been triggered above 1.2000 and it didn't (not fully). So, you want to say that Alpari software is great, but there were no buyers ABOVE 1.2000? Of course it is their fault. My fault is that I lost my money. Their fault is everything I lost more than that. And by simply saying you can lose more than you can invest, they didn't protect themselves, cause that can be interpreted in multiple ways. If I invested 100, made 200, lost 200, I've lost more then I invested. If they think they can cover everything with few...
​I wonder if you read and understood terms and conditions, risk disclosure and other documents you signed when opened your account?
1. Alpari software has nothing to do with it. They used the same MT4 as most of the other retail brokers.
2. There was very little liquidity even above 1.20. The liquidity you can see in some brokers Level 2 is provided by Liquidity providers, most of which are big banks. In case of Alpari it was Citi. When the news came in all LP's just removed all their bids. What was left just odd limit orders by other retail traders. Most of the retail traders trade using market orders and use limits only to take profit. I do not think that there were many people with shorts who had their take profit at 1.20+. So, basically, after Citi pulled their bids you are left with bids provided by entry limit orders of other Alpari clients. How many Alpari traders do you think were not happy at 1.2007 entry price freely available at that time and wanted to wait for 1.2002 for example? Probably there were some that is why you might get that partial execution of your margin stop.
3. Margin call is different in execution than stop loss. Position is liquidated in sequence. Algorithm closes your trades one by one at market. Obviously, if your position consisted from several trades by the time the margin call algorithm submits the second trade for execution the price might be long gone.
4. They cannot leave your account in position with negative equity. Margin Call is executed automatically as soon as minimum margin requirement is breached. This done to protect you from negative equity, but it can fail in illiquid market conditions there was a special mention of this in the terms.
5. If you really think that negative balance is not your responsibility feel free to ignore KPMG demands to pay or call them and tell them to put their demands in their asses.
6. You are forgetting that there is no broker anymore to forgive your negative balance, there is an officer of the court appointed to recover as much money for creditors as possible.

As for the brokers forgiving negative balances there are indeed some brokers.
1. Brokers trading against client and not hedging it at the market. The basically just got your deposit and forgiving the rest does not cost anything, but good advertisement. See FxPro.
2. Brokers hedging position at the market, but having "No Negative Balances" policy. They have to absorb your loss. See FXCM.
3. Brokers whose losses were relatively small, they just consider it as marketing expenses. See Dukascopy, even if they went hard after negative balances they would probably have recovered €500k or so out from €1.7m lost by its clients. Not much money for them to bother and a good free advertisement.

My advice, feel free to ignore. If you have money to pay, contact KPMG learn what they are going to do, wait for confirmed balance, talk to lawyer discuss the option and negotiate a deal with KPMG, they will be flexible. If you do not have money to pay them, write all the assets to your spouse or relatives and tell KPMG that you do not have any money or assets and ask for substantial haircut if they agree good, if not then declare personal bankruptcy. And finally, if you really live live Zimbabwe, just forget about Alpari and KPMG.
Wookey
0 traders viewing now