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Alpari.co.uk Discussion

  • #3,981
  • Feb 9, 2015 11:07am Feb 9, 2015 11:07am
seriously, fellow (ex)alpari uk clients,this is the reality of this business and its sad sooo sad but thats the industry or world we are in. Sadly all we can do is wait and hope for the best, that is 100% of our funds being returned to us. All the petitions and various forms wont help us,trust me...but just keep in mind that the rules in UK are strict and they can not be violated easily or you end up in jail, thats the fact.
So patiente is the key!
Regards
  • #3,982
  • Feb 9, 2015 11:08am Feb 9, 2015 11:08am
One potentially worrying thing is that there are 100,000 customers, and 65 million pounds. That means average customer have an account worth 650 pounds.

that seems a bit on the short side. I expect many accounts are dead, I remember that only 24,000 accounts were active putting the average at 2400 pounds
  • #3,983
  • Feb 9, 2015 11:19am Feb 9, 2015 11:19am
Quoting circochas
So KPMG have their hands on £43 million of our cash with another £22 million to come - transferred directly into accounts controlled by KPMG. Not bad. I trust they are calculating and crediting the daily interest due to us retail clients ?
lol !! charging them daily interest is definately on my list of questions now, i wouldnt count on it though...
i've contacted the fca and the financial ombudsman but they both refer me to either KPMG or the insolvency complaints procedure and say they cant do anything about it.
  • #3,984
  • Feb 9, 2015 11:25am Feb 9, 2015 11:25am
This thought crosses my mind every time I think about it.

Quoting ewinner
@nAVIN2007 Im beginning to think they let it go down on purpose...!
  • #3,985
  • Feb 9, 2015 1:23pm Feb 9, 2015 1:23pm
The only people to come out of this OK is who ever is left at Alpari and KMPG

Sorry to say but only trade with what you can afford to lose
I do Good I feel GoodI do Bad I feel Bad
  • #3,986
  • Feb 9, 2015 1:24pm Feb 9, 2015 1:24pm
Quoting ewinner
@nAVIN2007 Im beginning to think they let it go down on purpose...!
bro i have been thinking this from the day i heard the owner wanted to close shop a year ago
this thing has corruption written all over it
  • #3,987
  • Feb 9, 2015 1:26pm Feb 9, 2015 1:26pm
Quoting verv
One potentially worrying thing is that there are 100,000 customers, and 65 million pounds. That means average customer have an account worth 650 pounds. that seems a bit on the short side. I expect many accounts are dead, I remember that only 24,000 accounts were active putting the average at 2400 pounds
22 to 24k accounts customers active last year...i don't think is full of dumb customers out there than stay in alpari with their money without withdraw or make some trade for 1 year! so we might believe than these 65 millions puonds are just pooled and shared with around 20-25k customers. Hoping in full but they are not talking about any deficit in deposit funds so they are all there 100% i guess.
Remain the problem of profit/loss.
But as they said who not has been effected by chf trades or really negative or huge profit trade...should be safe from any cut by them and they will are the first on the queue to get money back.

But we need more update for be sure.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #3,988
  • Feb 9, 2015 1:36pm Feb 9, 2015 1:36pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} bro i have been thinking this from the day i heard the owner wanted to close shop a year ago
I doesn't make sense to let that happen..

Alpari made £700k profit in January and all the buffer money they had is gone! They have lost millions, no owner is stupid enough to want to lose that money, closing the company and splitting what ever is left would have been a lot better. And it was 1 of the shareholders that wanted to close shop but he had other partners that are not partners in Alpari Russia so he can't make the decision on his own.

Just closing the company and paying everybody out before that date would be a lot better for them financially. So they didn't let it go, they just lost control of the risk management, if there was any!
  • #3,989
  • Feb 9, 2015 1:40pm Feb 9, 2015 1:40pm
Quoting papamax
{quote} I doesn't make sense to let that happen.. Alpari made £700k profit in January and all the buffer money they had is gone! They have lost millions, no owner is stupid enough to want to lose that money, closing the company and splitting what ever is left would have been a lot better. And it was 1 of the shareholders that wanted to close shop but he had other partners that are not partners in Alpari Russia so he can't make the decision on his own. Just closing the company and paying everybody out before that date would be a lot better for them...

I stand corrected!! ...thx for the information
I feel slightly better hearing this..I really thought alpari UK was one of the big guns..thx god i didnt add another 12k. I came so very close to adding..I almost feel lucky
  • #3,990
  • Feb 9, 2015 2:21pm Feb 9, 2015 2:21pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} I stand corrected!! ...thx for the information I feel slightly better hearing this..I really thought alpari UK was one of the big guns..thx god i didnt add another 12k. I came so very close to adding..I almost feel lucky
We still don't know anything...don't be so tragic. Maybe we will take back 100% of ours funds or maybe less if your account is a mess.
But for now we just stay like before..we need more update...just wait until 20 feb. Maybe they will be more clear about statement of any personal account.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #3,991
  • Feb 9, 2015 2:54pm Feb 9, 2015 2:54pm
Quoting neoxis
{quote} We still don't know anything...don't be so tragic. Maybe we will take back 100% of ours funds or maybe less if your account is a mess. But for now we just stay like before..we need more update...just wait until 20 feb. Maybe they will be more clear about statement of any personal account.

it will be interesting to give u an idea last year i placed around 59 trades multiple positions on 1 currency (cable) all closed at a profit..at start of this year i think i had around 28 position buying cable..and these people decided to close them ..i lose 3.6k
my win rate is above 90% (assuming they didnt close my positions) ..my account must be one of the easy ones..lets see what these people decide i get..it will be interesting
  • #3,992
  • Feb 9, 2015 5:11pm Feb 9, 2015 5:11pm
i also would like to add. what money is in those seggregated accounts, our deposited money or our current account balance? i did already withdraw more than what i paid in so in effect just traded with my profits. which might mean there is nothing to pay me back or is there? what do you guys think?
  • #3,993
  • Edited 7:07pm Feb 9, 2015 6:24pm | Edited 7:07pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote}{quote} are u saying that u/we can potentially claim back the losses under the black swan even being foreseeable or are u saying we are dreaming if we think we can get back losses?
Hi nAVIN,

I am saying that you will not be able to claim negative balances.

Refer to Alpari Customer Agreement

Limit of Liability

16.3. The Company will not be liable for any loss or expense incurred by the Customer in connection with, or directly or indirectly arising from: (a) any error or failure in the operation of the Trading Platform or any delay caused by the Client Terminal; (b) Transactions made via the Client Terminal or by telephone; (c) any failure by the Company to perform any of its obligations under the Operative Agreements as a result of a cause beyond its control; or (d) the acts, omissions or negligence of any third party.


Some bright spark linked "as a result of a cause beyond its control" to Force Majeure. So lets have a look at the Force Majeure clause.


Force Majeure

27.1. The Company may, in its reasonable opinion, determine that a Force Majeure Event exists, in which case the Company will, in due course, take reasonable steps to inform the Customer. A Force Majeure Event includes without limitation:
(a) any act, event or occurrence (including, without limitation, any strike, riot or civil commotion, terrorism, war, act of God, accident, fire, flood, storm, interruption of power supply, electronic, communication equipment or supplier failure, civil unrest, statutory provisions, lock-outs) which, in the Company’s reasonable opinion, prevents the Company from maintaining an orderly market in one or more of the Instruments;
(b) the suspension, liquidation or closure of any market or the abandonment or failure of any event to which the Company relates its Quotes, or the imposition of limits or special or unusual terms on the trading in any such market or on any such event.


As you can see they have contracted out of you having any claim against them for negative balances. This is quite normal business practice. I deal with this on a daily basis.
What's it all about? It's all about money.
  • #3,994
  • Edited 7:17pm Feb 9, 2015 6:32pm | Edited 7:17pm
Quoting circochas
{quote} Top idea, thank you for being so proactive - These discussion pages are full of armchair pseudo-professionals who claim to know everything and aim to defeat any form of activity before it even gets started, so go for it, lets actually get some input from a professional and external source. What harm can it do ?
Hi circochas,

I assume you are referring to me as the "armchair psuedo-professional" offering advice that is not conducive to your emotional wants.
Please feel free to spend your money, there is no harm in that. As they say a fool and his money are often parted.

The only reason I have taken the time to offer free advice is because I care about this community and the tone of this thread is an emotional one not a realistic one.

For the record I do this everyday.
What's it all about? It's all about money.
  • #3,995
  • Feb 9, 2015 7:07pm Feb 9, 2015 7:07pm
Quoting missluna1982
{quote} lol !! charging them daily interest is definately on my list of questions now, i wouldnt count on it though... i've contacted the fca and the financial ombudsman but they both refer me to either KPMG or the insolvency complaints procedure and say they cant do anything about it.
missluna,

I am addressing you as you say you represent a number of customers but please everyone listen. Your comments are fantasy. If you ignore the advice I previously provided, then you are misspending other peoples good money and I dont want to see that happen. There is no need to do that after we have all suffered through this process. If you do go and waste their money on legal fees then it will be on your conscience.

If you are a 'leader' representing others then pull your head in and stop behaving like a child. You are just one small little part of a much bigger problem.

Quite seriously (so far) the process is happening as it should. Yes I would like it to be faster. No I am not happy about my money being unavailable and potentially not getting it all back. But again, this is the real world where shit happens. Consider yourselves all very lucky that there is any statutory requirements that this UK broker is bound by. Without that, we might not be getting a penny.

Ok, this is my last bit of free legal advice to you. Feel free to ignore me once again and keep your head in the sand.

"lol !! charging them daily interest is definately on my list of questions now"

Alpari have specifically excluded all liability for Interest. i.e. You have no ability to claim interest against them.

Extract from Alpari Customer Agreement:
Customer Money

6.2. The Company shall not be obliged to pay interest to the Customer on any funds which the Company holds. The Customer waives all rights to interest.
What's it all about? It's all about money.
  • #3,996
  • Feb 9, 2015 7:16pm Feb 9, 2015 7:16pm
Quoting shail31
You are mistaken when you presume that client funds have been used for trading or have been transferred to the LP. Alpari uses its own money to trade on our behalf.The money which is segregated in not touched .Alpari has suffered a loss trading our positions hence even though the pool is intact ,dividing it is going to be some task firstly as there is a validation process to decide the prices at which the trades were closed on the 15th and also the force majeur scenario on the 16th.There will many who will not be happy and will complain about the...
It is true that the balance money still sit on the broker account while your position is open. However, when the position is closed the account is adjusted according to your new account balance. I do not know how Alpari did, but FXCM adjusts the accounts at around London midnight. Since Alpari did operations for another day it had time for the account adjustments. We have heard in the beginning that FCA found some irregularities of how this adjustment happened, however since then they told us that all the money is there and they expect to gather £65m which is about $99m which is the full amount of the segregated account before Jan 15. So it seems that customers who did not have CHF trades on 15th should receive their money back in full in any case. Customers who did not have CHF trades, but had other positions which were automatically liquidated on 16th, should receive the amount equal to their balance after all the position were closed and the account is flat on 16th. And finally, customers who had CHF positions will have their position close price reviewed, widely accepted price for EURCHF there other brokers are reviewing closes to is around 0.96 when SNB finally stepped in and sold CHF's to stop the freefall. They will receive whatever left on their account after that. If it is minus they will get an official demand to pay. I am afraid KPMG as an officer of the court will have no problems to confirm this debt in court and thus make it sellable to collectors. If anyone with the negative balance is reading this, please, do not ignore KPMG demands before consulting with a lawyer, unless you live in Afghanistan or your debt is just few quids. It is much easier to find understanding with KPMG than with collectors, remember that KPMG will likely get depending on the amount, country and other personal circumstances 30-50% from collectors. So you have some bargaining power.
Wookey
  • #3,997
  • Feb 9, 2015 7:19pm Feb 9, 2015 7:19pm
finally,

damn.... alpari didn't pay negatif balance / floating position minus or poitive, they paid only cash balance..
what the hell poor u alpari!
  • #3,998
  • Feb 10, 2015 12:14am Feb 10, 2015 12:14am
Quoting wookey
{quote} And finally, customers who had CHF positions will have their position close price reviewed, widely accepted price for EURCHF there other brokers are reviewing closes to is around 0.96 when SNB finally stepped in and sold CHF's to stop the freefall. They will receive whatever left on their account after that. If it is minus they will get an official demand to pay.
Price of 0.96 is fair. I wish all brokers would use that price when "adjusting" the trades.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #3,999
  • Feb 10, 2015 12:41am Feb 10, 2015 12:41am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Price of 0.96 is fair. I wish all brokers would use that price when "adjusting" the trades.
Why is it fair?
If my margin call should have been triggered above 1.20000, why would it be fair to accept 0.96? Don't tell me there were no buyers 1.2000-1.2003?
  • #4,000
  • Feb 10, 2015 12:59am Feb 10, 2015 12:59am
Quoting Innate
{quote} Quite seriously (so far) the process is happening as it should. Yes I would like it to be faster. No I am not happy about my money being unavailable and potentially not getting it all back. But again, this is the real world where shit happens. Consider yourselves all very lucky that there is any statutory requirements that this UK broker is bound by. Without that, we might not be getting a penny.
Exactly.
I've been through an insolvency process years ago, as a worker for a big semiconductor company that had 2000 workers and went down in the 2008 crisis... and I know how long it took to go through all the steps and sort everything out for employees, creditors, customers, etc.
I was one of the 10% lucky ones who didn't lose their job... I lost some in cutout paychecks.

That's why I haven't been posting here, or signing anything... there's too much rambling around, while everything looks to me as being done by the books.
They sent me an e-mail, they gave updates on their site, they provided info about what they are doing (I'm not an expert to know if those are the right or the needed steps, but I trust they report to someone, so it must have been decided because they need to do it) and they provided a timeline, an aproximate date to the end of the current step, to then advance to the next one.

So for now, signed petitions, daily phone calls to the offices, e-mails to the administrators, official complaints, etc, seems to me, can only achieve one thing... delaying things even more.

I really feel for the ones who were in CHF trades or had open positions that were closed in a loss, and wish them all the best, but my advice is hope for the best... while expecting the worst. It seems impossible for those to sort this without loses... if not for us all.

For what it's worth, I have several K€ (10% of my money) tied up in this; I didn't trade in the tragic day; I didn't trade in the previous 2 weeks at all; and I don't make a living trading (and I find it hilarious that, since approximately 90% of forex traders supposedly lose money, there are so many making a living of trading forex here... those 10% must all be Alpari UK traders, lol).
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