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  • #3,921
  • Edited 5:53am Feb 8, 2015 5:37am | Edited 5:53am
With the sell of positive accounts they will repay debt or part of debt from negative account. AND ANYWAY NEGATIVE BALANCES DEARS YOU FORGOT YOU HAVE A DEBT NO MORE WITH ALPARI BUT WITH BANKS AND COLLECTORS..YOU WILL SEE! IS USELESS ALL ARE YOU SAYING. JUST PRAY GOD THAN WITH MONEY OF US YOU WILL CLEAN YOUR BUTT FROM DEBT. AND YOU NEED TO SAY THANK YOU TO US IF YOU WILL NOT PAY NOTHING.
AND REMEMBER IF WE STAY IN THIS CONDITION IS FOR STUPIDITY OF LITTLE TRADERS THAN USE 1:500 LAVARAGE SO SHUT UP IS BETTER GO TO DO ANOTHER JOB AND DON'T CREATE MORE PROBLEMS TO SERIOUS TRADERS. NEGATIVE BALANCE OUT OF BUSINESS SO DON'T BREAK BALLS YOU DON'T WANNA PAY? YOUR PROBLEMS. NOT OURS. AND REMEMBER KPMG HAVE SUBSIDIARIES EVEN ON MARS BEHIND YOUR A**. YOU CANNOT ESCAPE CAUSE BECOME A LOCAL DEBT. JUST PRAY THAN WE SAVE YOUR A**. AND I HOPE REALLY SOON WE SEPARATE FROM THIS MESS. YOUR PROBLEMS ARE JUST YOURS NOT OURS. WE WILL GO ANYWAY IN A NEW BROKER FOR SURE FOR WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE SEARCHING JUST AN HIGH BIDDER AND BOOM SELL US...AND FOR SURE WITH THAT MONEY REPAY COLLECTORS DEBT..THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION. SO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE AND GO TO DO ANOTHER JOB. AND I DON'T REPLY YOU ANYMORE YOU DON'T DESERVE NOTHING. CAUSE IF I'M IN THIS SITUATION IS JUST FAULT OF THESE TRADERS THAN USE 1:500 LEVARAGE SO COME ON WHY YOU DON'T USE 1:10000????? YOU LIKE LOSE MONEY???? YOUR PROBLEM!!! GO TO FIND A BROKER JUST FOR LITTLE TRADERS THAN LIKE LOSE MONEY AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO TRADE. IN THIS FIELD THERE IS NO SPACE FOR UNPROFESSIONAL OR OCCASIONAL TRADERS. GO TO DO YOUR JOB IN A NORMAL COMPANY AND NOT CREATE MESS. THANKS IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS.

PS: AND BEFORE TALK PLEASE INFORM YOURSELF AND READ THIS FUC****N JOURNALS! OR I DON'T REPLY ANYMORE, IS A WASTING TIME TALK WITH PEOPLE THAN DON'T KNOW THE SITUATION AND DON'T TAKE INFO..USELESS WORDS MAN...TIC TOC TIC TOC I WILL TAKE BACK MY MONEY IN ANY OR OTHER WAY . YOU LOST SO DON'T TALK ANYMORE THANKS.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #3,922
  • Feb 8, 2015 6:22am Feb 8, 2015 6:22am
Quoting ghibellino
{quote} ok my friend, thank you, but it was already posted 44 hours back {image} and {image}
Well excuuuuussssseeeeee me........
  • #3,923
  • Feb 8, 2015 6:51am Feb 8, 2015 6:51am
Quoting neoxis
With the sell of positive accounts they will repay debt or part of debt from negative account. AND ANYWAY NEGATIVE BALANCES DEARS YOU FORGOT YOU HAVE A DEBT NO MORE WITH ALPARI BUT WITH BANKS AND COLLECTORS..YOU WILL SEE! IS USELESS ALL ARE YOU SAYING. JUST PRAY GOD THAN WITH MONEY OF US YOU WILL CLEAN YOUR BUTT FROM DEBT. AND YOU NEED TO SAY THANK YOU TO US IF YOU WILL NOT PAY NOTHING. AND REMEMBER IF WE STAY IN THIS CONDITION IS FOR STUPIDITY OF LITTLE TRADERS THAN USE 1:500 LAVARAGE SO SHUT UP IS BETTER GO TO DO ANOTHER JOB AND DON'T CREATE MORE...

I understand you are desperate for your money.But SHOUTING does nobody any good.If you knew that the segregated funds are in a pool you
know the risk you are taking.Even though I have a positive balance I know one thing for sure nothing is black and white.The execution
of the SL or the the lack of liquidity is a highly sensitive area.Just as one has made a money and is desperate for their profit,it can be said
the ones with the massive losses are also desperate for the brokers to be interrogated about how they executed the trades.Also.force majeur
is highly debatable at the moment.With FCA involved this will surely drag and I am sure many will not be happy with the statements they
will receive.
  • #3,924
  • Feb 8, 2015 7:05am Feb 8, 2015 7:05am
Quoting shail31
{quote}If you knew that the segregated funds are in a pool you know the risk you are taking.
Please explain this point.
Why is the fact that segregated funds are in a pool a risk?
  • #3,925
  • Feb 8, 2015 8:38am Feb 8, 2015 8:38am
http://forexmagnates.com/clients-rem...ture-of-forex/

Nothing new in this article...
  • #3,926
  • Edited 10:25am Feb 8, 2015 10:15am | Edited 10:25am
Quoting shail31
{quote} I understand you are desperate for your money.But SHOUTING does nobody any good.If you knew that the segregated funds are in a pool you know the risk you are taking.Even though I have a positive balance I know one thing for sure nothing is black and white.The execution of the SL or the the lack of liquidity is a highly sensitive area.Just as one has made a money and is desperate for their profit,it can be said the ones with the massive losses are also desperate for the brokers to be interrogated about how they executed the trades.Also.force...

i'm talking about funds....not profit...who talked about profit?? Read please before talk and kpmg and FCA already said all funds are there. So i don't see your point. I don't give a fuck about profit. I'm always talking about deposit. They not say false information in their website if they are not sure they don't say nothing. Anyway we have FSCS like last opportunity...but anyway is almost likely than we will be sold soon to the best offer. So we need to be positive in everything (positive retails accounts).

Negative already fucked up...positive are their white knight maybe only opportunity for them to save their butt.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #3,927
  • Feb 8, 2015 11:11am Feb 8, 2015 11:11am
Quoting neoxis
With the sell of positive accounts they will repay debt or part of debt from negative account. AND ANYWAY NEGATIVE BALANCES DEARS YOU FORGOT YOU HAVE A DEBT NO MORE WITH ALPARI BUT WITH BANKS AND COLLECTORS..YOU WILL SEE! IS USELESS ALL ARE YOU SAYING. JUST PRAY GOD THAN WITH MONEY OF US YOU WILL CLEAN YOUR BUTT FROM DEBT. AND YOU NEED TO SAY THANK YOU TO US IF YOU WILL NOT PAY NOTHING. AND REMEMBER IF WE STAY IN THIS CONDITION IS FOR STUPIDITY OF LITTLE TRADERS THAN USE 1:500 LAVARAGE SO SHUT UP IS BETTER GO TO DO ANOTHER JOB AND DON'T CREATE MORE...
why do some accountees hold negative balance ?

are they crazy or irresponsible accountees ?

Some of them already set stop loss. If the stop loss were properly executed, their balance would have been positive.

Thus , expertise opinions or even court may be involved in deciding whether they are actually debtors or creditors to alpari after considering the responsibility of non execution of the stop loss.

Pls put into the shoe of those negative balance accountees who has already set stop loss.

They won't pay a cent until the court confirms the liability of non execution of the stop loss.
  • #3,928
  • Feb 8, 2015 12:54pm Feb 8, 2015 12:54pm
Quoting jizzyjay
{quote} Please explain this point. Why is the fact that segregated funds are in a pool a risk?
The very fact that they are in a pool implies they cannot be returned to individuals immediately
i.e. the money of winners and loosers is pooled as one.Also, because one can land in a
typical alpari situation where the brokers goes bust and it becomes very difficult to
figure out how to split the funds.
  • #3,929
  • Feb 8, 2015 1:02pm Feb 8, 2015 1:02pm
Quoting shail31
{quote} The very fact that they are in a pool implies they cannot be returned to individuals immediately i.e. the money of winners and loosers is pooled as one.Also, because one can land in a typical alpari situation where the brokers goes bust and it becomes very difficult to figure out how to split the funds.
I don't think so...is very easy positive from one side and negative anotherside...who lost money are lost...everything is separated in database everyone has his account..you just need to calcolate if everuthing is equal on the pool with positive account if yes they gonna split them ...we gonna sell to another broker and negative sold to collectors..done. You are doing this more difficult. It's really easy they just want take time cause they need to earn from this mess.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #3,930
  • Feb 8, 2015 1:05pm Feb 8, 2015 1:05pm
Quoting shail31
{quote} The very fact that they are in a pool implies they cannot be returned to individuals immediately i.e. the money of winners and loosers is pooled as one.Also, because one can land in a typical alpari situation where the brokers goes bust and it becomes very difficult to figure out how to split the funds.
The winners and losers?
You mean the positive and negative accounts?
If thats what you mean how exactly can a negative account have any claim to the pool when they have no money?
  • #3,931
  • Feb 8, 2015 1:08pm Feb 8, 2015 1:08pm
Quoting jizzyjay
{quote} The winners and losers? You mean the positive and negative accounts? If thats what you mean how exactly can a negative account have any claim to the pool when they have no money?
if they don't have they not have right to claim!!!!! it's easy! if they had 10k and now 3k is everythingg wrote in database....so is easy...what is your problem?? who lost whole amount not have right to claim nothing is easy.

and they will be sold to collectors everything is wrote in database..so let's take out that shit from the database.

Leaprate never said bullshits...always said was true...so if they said...we probably will be sold...and splitted...there is nothing more to say...no more caos in your brain. it's easy...you lost? you're fucked up and maybe you will no pay your debt if positive save your ass in the sell for recover debt.
you won??? probably if you will be sold you will keep your profit with your funds in the other broker or you can choose just take back your part of profit or any of them just deposit. Anyway if they don't give you profit i just don't care...i want what is protected from FCA just that. If kpmg gonna sell us better than go trough FSCS need more time for take back too much.
myfxbook: neoxis
  • #3,932
  • Feb 8, 2015 1:16pm Feb 8, 2015 1:16pm
Quoting neoxis
{quote} i'm talking about funds....not profit...who talked about profit?? Read please before talk and kpmg and FCA already said all funds are there. So i don't see your point. I don't give a fuck about profit. I'm always talking about deposit. They not say false information in their website if they are not sure they don't say nothing. Anyway we have FSCS like last opportunity...but anyway is almost likely than we will be sold soon to the best offer. So we need to be positive in everything (positive retails accounts). Negative already fucked up...positive...
If you didn't take any trade on the 15th,you will definitely get your money much quicker
full amount or you might have to claim some from fscs.I suggest you contact them
or take a lawyer or visit their office as there is no reason for you to wait.The rest of the guys
i.e. people who were trading on the 15th and 16th will have to wait till the final prices for the
trades have been confirmed many are going to complain to fca and financial ombudsman.
  • #3,933
  • Feb 8, 2015 1:23pm Feb 8, 2015 1:23pm
Quoting jizzyjay
{quote} The winners and losers? You mean the positive and negative accounts? If that's what you mean how exactly can a negative account have any claim to the pool when they have no money?
True,negative don't have claim,However they do have claim to complain to the fca and financial ombudsman.
I am 100% certain people who did not trade will get everything back.People who made a profit
will have to wait and see where kpmg agrees to close the trade and hence it could increase or decrease
their profit.Its the same for the people who lost their losses could decrease or increase if kpmg after
their validation process changes the prices.
  • #3,934
  • Feb 8, 2015 1:38pm Feb 8, 2015 1:38pm
Quoting shail31
{quote} True,negative don't have claim,However they do have claim to complain to the fca and financial ombudsman. I am 100% certain people who did not trade will get everything back.People who made a profit will have to wait and see where kpmg agrees to close the trade and hence it could increase or decrease their profit.Its the same for the people who lost their losses could decrease or increase if kpmg after their validation process changes the prices.
Valid point.
Ill have a think about that one.
  • #3,935
  • Edited 4:49pm Feb 8, 2015 3:02pm | Edited 4:49pm
hello,

we (me the admin of the alpari clients facebook page and someone else from there) are going to get legal advice in central London on our (all ex clients with a positive balance) situation. For this to be most effective i would like to ask

a) if anyone else wants to come along

b) right now we are considering going to these guys but any other suggestions welcome: http://antonybatty.com/

c) if you can post or message me any questions that you have, i also sent an email to the fca and the financial ombudsman today so can involve them too.

so far we have(i've added mystiques concerns so far and mine):

 

  1. is there any time frame in which they are obliged to return our money, or can they really drag this out as long as they want to? the Special Adminstration has strict rules, which will take some time to process. But what if the Special Administrators become creative and find ways to spend more time on it - for instance by developing a sort of portal, instead of using the Alpari UK account statements, Database etc. Might be legal, but imho not legitimate.
  2. Force Majeure. If Alpari can claim this as reason why they closed our (non-swissy) trades and their operation, it simply means they are not liable for any losses we traders incurred because Alpari did what it did. My take is: they are liable because what happened wasn't an unforseeable Black Swan event or the like. They just were not prepared due to their dismal (risk) mangement practise. So imho Alapri UK is liable for any losses incurred. And i will claim back my losses too, not only my balance.
  3. Is it really legal in the UK that the "costs and expenses of dealing with and distributing client assets (which include client monies) are paid out of client assets"? And what does this really mean? Do the so called "client monies" include the segregated funds of retail clients? If this would be true, basically we, the retail clients would have to pay the Special Administrators for getting back what's left of our money "pro rata" after KPMG has deducted their fees. This would be a clear conflict of interests. And if this is what's going to happen to us, then that's nothing but institutionalized theft! Theft by Regulation? Please somebody tell me, that's not what's going to happen ..
  4. Are traders that are no UK residents covered at all by FCA / FCS?
  5. Are retail traders with the ProAccount seen as retail or pro, so is their money in the seggregated pool or not?


many thanks,
Sylvia

  • #3,936
  • Feb 8, 2015 3:07pm Feb 8, 2015 3:07pm
Quoting shail31
{quote} If you didn't take any trade on the 15th,you will definitely get your money much quicker full amount or you might have to claim some from fscs.I suggest you contact them or take a lawyer or visit their office as there is no reason for you to wait.The rest of the guys i.e. people who were trading on the 15th and 16th will have to wait till the final prices for the trades have been confirmed many are going to complain to fca and financial ombudsman.

it doesnt make any difference..the companies asset are frozen till kmpg or whatever decide the profit/loss ..all trades wer closed the balance remaining is the balance..i cannot see how this can be manipulated
  • #3,937
  • Feb 8, 2015 3:10pm Feb 8, 2015 3:10pm
Quoting missluna1982
hello, we (me the admin of the alpari clients facebook page and someone else from there) are going to get legal advice in central London on our (all ex clients with a positive balance) situation. For this to be most effective i would like to ask a) if anyone else wants to come along b) right now we are considerung going to these guys but any other suggestions welcome: http://antonybatty.com/ c) if you can post or message me any questions that you have, i also sent an email to the fca and the financial ombudsman today so can involve them...
i am very interested in points 2 manily and 3 also
  • #3,938
  • Feb 8, 2015 6:16pm Feb 8, 2015 6:16pm
Quoting nAVIN2007
{quote} it doesnt make any difference..the companies asset are frozen till kmpg or whatever decide the profit/loss ..all trades wer closed the balance remaining is the balance..i cannot see how this can be manipulated
The balance in the segregated pool wont change but your share surely will if the prices
are changed after validation process if you were involved in chf trades.Also,if you were
effected by force majeur on the 16th i.e. your open trades were closed on 16th.
  • #3,939
  • Edited 9:17pm Feb 8, 2015 7:29pm | Edited 9:17pm
[quote=missluna1982;8054144]

Hi,
Please dont consider this legal advice as I have not had a chance to review all the documentation. I can only reply from my own readings on the topic in recent weeks and what you have written below. I do not live in the UK but I am an Alpari client owed monies so I have a vested interest in advancing this process.

Summary: Save you money and dont bother getting lawyers involved. It will not help your cause at this stage. Currently the process seems to be happening at what I would consider a 'normal' pace for an issue of this size. Maybe in the future if things dont progress then consider the option. Your emotions are getting in the way of reality.

Basically all your questions (and a whole lot more) are answered here: https://www.insolvency-kpmg.co.uk/Vi...e-26e040b77d2b

1) is there any time frame in which they are obliged to return our money, or can they really drag this out as long as they want to? the Special Adminstration has strict rules, which will take some time to process. But what if the Special Administrators become creative and find ways to spend more time on it - for instance by developing a sort of portal, instead of using the Alpari UK account statements, Database etc. Might be legal, but imho not legitimate.

They need to return your money as soon as "reasonably practical" (that time has nowhere near expired yet).

2) Force Majeure. If Alpari can claim this as reason why they closed our (non-swissy) trades and their operation, it simply means they are not liable for any losses we traders incurred because Alpari did what it did. My take is: they are liable because what happened wasn't an unforseeable Black Swan event or the like. They just were not prepared due to their dismal (risk) mangement practise. So imho Alapri UK is liable for any losses incurred. And i will claim back my losses too, not only my balance.

Under English law Force Majeure is only a contractual term. So the rules surrounding it are determined in the contract.
With or without Force Majeure, it is as simple as this, you will not be able to claim back your losses. Wake up. This is the real world.
If you think their risk management was 'dismal' then you shouldnt have been a client with them. (Hindsight is not relevant here)

3) Is it really legal in the UK that the "costs and expenses of dealing with and distributing client assets (which include client monies) are paid out of client assets"? And what does this really mean? Do the so called "client monies" include the segregated funds of retail clients? If this would be true, basically we, the retail clients would have to pay the Special Administrators for getting back what's left of our money "pro rata" after KPMG has deducted their fees. This would be a clear conflict of interests. And if this is what's going to happen to us, then that's nothing but institutionalized theft! Theft by Regulation? Please somebody tell me, that's not what's going to happen ..

"The costs and expenses of dealing with and distributing client assets (which include client monies) are paid out of client assets. Other costs and expenses are paid out of the firm’s assets."
Theft? You're dreaming again. I will be happy to pay them a small fee for the money to magically reappear in my account.
Remember Alpari went into liquidation because they didnt have enough money to meet the FCA, not no money at all, so I would only expect a small haircut.

4) Are traders that are no UK residents covered at all by FCA / FCS?

Yes.

5) Are retail traders with the ProAccount seen as retail or pro, so is their money in the seggregated pool or not? many thanks,

If you have a pro account you are not considered "retail" and their money was not segregated. I believe there are only about 7 or 8 Pro accounts in total.
What's it all about? It's all about money.
  • #3,940
  • Feb 8, 2015 11:55pm Feb 8, 2015 11:55pm
​Great post, Innate. I would like to add that amount clients receive will depend on few conditions:

1. If someone buys the clients database clients will receive their full confirmed balance back (with small exception, see below).

2. If there is no buyer then the amount depends how much money left on the segregated account. Basically, it is a pool of clients money. KPMG and FCA are saying that nothing is missing, but (there is always a but) a lot depends on how much money was transferred from this account to the LP in the aftermath of 15th trades. To explain if there are only 2 traders, one have positive balance of 300 and the other have negative balance -200. Then the total size of the pool is 100. The nalance is accurate, no money is stolen or missing, but the trader 1 is not able to withdraw his money because there is not enough money to pay him until trader 2 pays what he owes. In Alpari situation it is important to understand how much money was transferred to LP before Alpari stopped operations. We know that Alpari owes $8.8m to Citi so at least some lost money are still there.

3. Another possible haircut for clients is the foreign exchange loss. Alpari accounting was done in one currency but some clients had balances in pounds or dollars so if the currency of the account loses some value during the liquidation some people will receive less money even if there is no losses from the previous point. The exchange rates for this were frozen on Jan 16th. But then you receive your money back the rate can be different (so you can win or lose). That is what happened in PFG case. The customer database was eventually bought by other broker, but the UK clients received less money because of the rate change.

4. If there is not enough money on the segregated account, all the clients will become creditors and will be pooled with the other creditors to receive money from liquidation and sale of assets.

5. If there is still not enough money the retail clients will be able to top up their balances to £50k from FSCS.
Wookey
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