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  • #4,121
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:20pm Jan 27, 2015 2:20pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
Guys, regarding those spreads, since Oanda is DD, they kinda guarantee you price you see on chart. So if there is some important news, like NFP, they r pretty sure they wont be able to guarantee best price simply bcos of market volatility. It is very normal they widen spreads, especially for DD broker. Nothing they can do about it. If they didnt widen spreads, they may quote price they cant afford.
What you mean Oanda is DD?
  • #4,122
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:28pm Jan 27, 2015 2:28pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} What you mean Oanda is DD?
Damage-Dealer
  • #4,123
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:36pm Jan 27, 2015 2:36pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} What you mean Oanda is DD?
Ok ok, so first I need to stop laughing to Hatches comment, gimme a second....... ah .

Well, thought you guys are dealing desk, or am I wrong?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,124
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:36pm Jan 27, 2015 2:36pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} Mate, although this guy is obviously just ranting, also you have said it is both traders and brokers fault. Trader failed to understand mechanics of market and thought he is going to sell his totally rotten apples on guaranteed price. Guess what, this is market, no price is guaranteed. Broker failed to hedge and get liquidity (in almost frozen market no surprise). Both are guilty. We can be talking bout it all day long, but in the end we reach to conclusion FX is pure essence of capitalistic market. Giant liquidity, cheap prices and giant...
Back up the bus for a second here, Tom.

Taking my words out of context will be of no real value, so, in fairness here is what I have stated:
Quoting Magix
I don't blame them for their customers losing their trades. I don't blame them for not having the same foresight as other companies. I don't blame them for not being a bucketshop and keeping all the funds. I do blame them for going back on their contractual obligations, taking money from separate accounts and chasing after negative balances.
So...Leverage, schmeverage...it's all moot.

The discussion where I'd mentioned this was specific to FXCM, for breaking their own contractual obligations. Nothing else.

If you or any member of FF, can provide or provide a link to any statistics that show the difference in the amount of accounts that have gone bust by way of high versus low leverage, I'd love to have a look at em. Conversely, if you can show me the statistics of sucessfull traders with high vs low leverage, I too would be willing to have a gander at those.

I don't think ya can...not sure that anybody could.

So, a couple of companies went tits up because they didn't have the foresight to change leverage on CHF prior to the Black Swan Event. AND?

I still bring up a company like Exness, as they are one of, if not the largest provider of leverage at 2000:1.

Where's the "Exness screwed me out of my account" threads?

A couple years back, when I began testing with EAs, if I remember correctly, they even drop their leverage 30-60 minutes before closing bell to help eliviate the gamblers going all on for a market gap.

2000:1...and they are still afloat?

HOW is this possible?

Exness is just an example, I am not recommending them and I do not trade with them...

Now, call them a bucketshop...call them a shit broker...call them anything you want.

Because they understand what you and most others understand. Most traders are going to lose their money to market. Plain and simple fact. Because they provide up to 2000:1, doesn't make them a bad broker, nor the traders that work with them bad traders. The 2000:1 is an OPTION!!

Ya get it?

You don't have to take the option, but if you want it...it's there. And by it being there, them offering one of the highest leverages available, they still stand, whilst others are using their pen cups to bail out the water.

All this chatter about who is at fault, brokers blaming traders, traders blaming brokers and that only one wanker who as a trader blames other traders...ludicrous.

A company who had to close its doors because of this, is an unfortunate situation, but not the fault of the trader.
A trader who never conceptualized the possibility of a movement of this magnitude, isn't really to blame as this was unprecedented. However, they too cannot blame their broker for making them pushing the button.

The situation still sucks...but will we ever see anything else like this that should force others to consider brokers based on leverage or by regulation?

Dunno.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #4,125
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:42pm Jan 27, 2015 2:42pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} Ok ok, so first I need to stop laughing to Hatches comment, gimme a second....... ah . Well, thought you guys are dealing desk, or am I wrong?
Ok. But Oanda is NDD is market maker no dealing desk.
  • #4,126
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:46pm Jan 27, 2015 2:46pm
Quoting Magix
Back up the bus for a second here, Tom. Taking my words out of context...
You are lucky I aint such a nerd like you in searching through posts as am pretty sure you said it .

Nevertheless, think we basically agree. Noone made them push the button, they cant blame broker. In my simple view it is your fault if you push button on your own will. Doenst change the fact FXCM very much facked up and damaged lots of people because of wrong business model. Btw, I always say ECN is dangerous thanks to technical possibility of lagging orders. MM is just faster, so think stable in these situations. Not even talking bout Alpari here, coz I dont believe Russians can properly run anything technical. Could be just my Czech complex.

Overall, yeah, it sucks, poor guys, but as I ve already said few times, although CBs getting grip on FX markets so their actions pretty strong, there are many black swan events which can happen through the world anytime. Better not press the button if you aint watching world.

T
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,127
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:50pm Jan 27, 2015 2:50pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
Ok. But Oanda is NDD is market maker no dealing desk.
Man I know Oanda says so and terms MM and DD can be pretty close. I just simplify it. Have been talking it with Oan and they also insist they r no DD. I just thought when you settle most of client trades internally and you basically send us price to the screen partially based on internal settlement, it is kind of DD.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,128
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:53pm Jan 27, 2015 2:53pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} Man I know Oanda says so and terms MM and DD can be pretty close. I just simplify it. Have been talking it with Oan and they also insist they r no DD. I just thought when you settle most of client trades internally and you basically send us price to the screen partially based on internal settlement, it is kind of DD.

  1. From Oanda's website:

    When you enter into an OTC Contract with OANDA, you will be entering into a privately negotiated contract with
    OANDA as principal. This means that OANDA acts as the seller when you buy and the buyer when you sell.

  • #4,129
  • Jan 27, 2015 2:57pm Jan 27, 2015 2:57pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} From Oanda's website: When you enter into an OTC Contract with OANDA, you will be entering into a privately negotiated contract with OANDA as principal. This means that OANDA acts as the seller when you buy and the buyer when you sell.
And this means? No offence, but I havent seen a single usefull post from you and you are pretty much already finished way to ignore list.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,130
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:05pm Jan 27, 2015 3:05pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} And this means? No offence, but I havent seen a single usefull post from you and you are pretty much already finished way to ignore list.
lol. Yeah, you're right, none of my posts regarding leverage and risk and protection of capital are useful. I was only defending your quote of Oanda being a dealing desk. I apologize.
  • #4,131
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:05pm Jan 27, 2015 3:05pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} . If you or any member of FF, can provide or provide a link to any statistics that show the difference in the amount of accounts that have gone bust by way of high versus low leverage. So, a couple of companies went tits up because they didn't have the foresight to change leverage on CHF prior to the Black Swan Event. AND? A trader who never conceptualized the possibility of a movement of this magnitude, isn't really to blame as this was unprecedented. However, they too cannot blame their broker for making them pushing the button. The situation...
Reality for Black Swan Event is:
Move was 30% . Any position with more than 4 leverage, result a negative balance.
4*30%= -120
And trader, has a negative balance of -20%
Brokers, In first phase, must cover that loss.(negative balance)
But leverage was 20, 50, 100....
  • #4,132
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:08pm Jan 27, 2015 3:08pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} From Oanda's website: When you enter into an OTC Contract with OANDA, you will be entering into a privately negotiated contract with OANDA as principal. This means that OANDA acts as the seller when you buy and the buyer when you sell.
I don't get where you're coming from.Does Oandas chart in any timeframe, look any different to any other brokers chart? Yes,the terms at which you enter into a contract with them may be particular but unless you're scalping ultra low TFs I don't really see any relevance there.
Where price is now, it has been before, and will be again.
  • #4,133
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:09pm Jan 27, 2015 3:09pm
Quoting Profit Daily
lol. Yeah, you're right, none of my posts regarding leverage and risk and protection of capital are useful. I was only defending your quote of Oanda being a dealing desk. I apologize.
Yeh I know, am asshole sorry . I am just so tired of everyone whinning here whose fault is some few guys lost in the most risky business in the world I started to be pissed of at everyone around. And that quote of yours wasnt proof of DD as broker always has to act as principal simply bcos you cant buy that lot, he can. Pure dealing desk means you trade with broker and not market. Thats not what Oanda is. I still consider em kinda DD, because they settle most of trades internally and they also trade themselves, so during internal settlement can move price. Anyway, I apologize.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,134
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:10pm Jan 27, 2015 3:10pm
Quoting Jenx
{quote} I don't get where you're coming from.Does Oandas chart in any timeframe, look any different to any other brokers chart? Yes,the terms at which you enter into a contract with them may be particular but unless you're scalping ultra low TFs I don't really see any relevance there.
Yes, it looks different when they freeze their platform or have sudden price spikes. You know, all the tricks to take your money because THEY ARE THE OTHER SIDE OF YOUR TRADE. They say so themselves.
  • #4,135
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:13pm Jan 27, 2015 3:13pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} Man I know Oanda says so and terms MM and DD can be pretty close. I just simplify it. Have been talking it with Oan and they also insist they r no DD. I just thought when you settle most of client trades internally and you basically send us price to the screen partially based on internal settlement, it is kind of DD.
On DD client trades internally is made manually
On NDD client trades internally is made automatically no human intervention.
  • #4,136
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:16pm Jan 27, 2015 3:16pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} On DD client trades internally is made manually On NDD client trades internally is made automatically no human intervention.
Please Tim I am very bad in IT stuff.
That automated internal settlement was made manually or automatically?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,137
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:18pm Jan 27, 2015 3:18pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} Yes, it looks different when they freeze their platform or have sudden price spikes. You know, all the tricks to take your money because THEY ARE THE OTHER SIDE OF YOUR TRADE. They say so themselves.
But if you trade over a reasonable TF ,using responsible leverage, no tricks whatsoever (if thats what you believe) can take your money from you. If you get spooked or tired out, and shit it, closing your trade ,thats YOU that did it, not them. If you get a margin call then that DEFINITELY is YOUR fault.
Where price is now, it has been before, and will be again.
  • #4,138
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:25pm Jan 27, 2015 3:25pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} Please Tim I am very bad in IT stuff. That automated internal settlement was made manually or automatically?
In NDD is automatically
In DD was manually, too much time and a lot requotes.
  • #4,139
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:26pm Jan 27, 2015 3:26pm
Quoting Jenx
{quote} But if you trade over a reasonable TF ,using responsible leverage, no tricks whatsoever (if thats what you believe) can take your money from you. If you get spooked or tired out, and shit it, closing your trade ,thats YOU that did it, not them. If you get a margin call then that DEFINITELY is YOUR fault.
I'm just saying I prefer a broker who doesn't have a conflict of interest. I literally can watch price move to .001 of my stop and not hit it. When they are on the other side, it will get hit. Call Oanda and ask them if they use the virtual dealer plug-in on their MT4? It's just a matter of preference though, if you're happy with them. My whole point for the past few days is the NFA taking away my choice of how I trade and who I trade with. There are much better brokers around the globe with no conflict of interest and I can't trade with them. If you want to trade with an NFA regulated broker, you have 5 choices, and I don't like any of them.
  • #4,140
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:33pm Jan 27, 2015 3:33pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} I'm just saying I prefer a broker who doesn't have a conflict of interest. I literally can watch price move to .001 of my stop and not hit it. When they are on the other side, it will get hit. Call Oanda and ask them if they use the virtual dealer plug-in on their MT4? It's just a matter of preference though, if you're happy with them. My whole point for the past few days is the NFA taking away my choice of how I trade and who I trade with. There are much better brokers around the globe with no conflict of interest and I can't trade with...
I think there will always be a conflict of interest. When you make a profit, it's your broker who pays you out, not the market.It's just a case of "Head down,Arse up" and earn yourself a profit however you can. If the herbert who's cashing you in can stop you, he will. Law of the jungle I'm afraid
Where price is now, it has been before, and will be again.
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