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Scammers - Hall of Shame

  • #661
  • Dec 2, 2014 4:06pm Dec 2, 2014 4:06pm
Quoting MikiMax
he stole it simply saying a lie before a purchase I asked: 'what's r/r ratio? he answered: '2to1 - means you risk 1 to get 2 in reality is quite different.... so by lying to me he stole it.... cause if he'd say the actual r/r I think I wouldn't have bought it...
Did you ask r/r or specifically ask reward/risk or risk/reward. I have seen it both ways.
  • #662
  • Dec 2, 2014 5:09pm Dec 2, 2014 5:09pm
System selling is the small part of the scam.
Wait until the "I'll trade your money" results start coming in.
There is a fool born every minute. In forex, it's every second.
  • #663
  • Edited 7:43pm Dec 2, 2014 6:34pm | Edited 7:43pm
Perhaps some debate is needed as to the definition of a scam in this industry?

A clear scam (as has been mentioned) is:
Paying for a service/product and not receiving it
The service/product doesn't meet the description
Any attempt to direct funds into some kind of fraudulent entity, be it a fund/ white label brokerage/ or any other thing where the "client" is basically ripped off.

But does this really cover all in Forex?
How about confidence tricksters?
This can work 2 ways. Either simply taking money from people on a promise, and outright stealing it...or in our industry taking money and trading it/running a training course/ selling a system which has no real value other than personal gain for the seller.

In most countries, financial advisers are fairly heavily regulated. They have to be qualified, and registered. Good ones will be able to show a track record of steady gains for their clients, and they are legally obligated to provide the best advice possible to their clients.

Forex may not be regulated...but...does selling an Fx system constitute financial advice? Up for debate, but the usual risk disclaimer people hide behind will cover them for sure. After all, they are not making you buy it, or use it. Legally immune, but ethically dubious!

How about MAM accounts? Someone making financial transactions on your behalf is certainly in the range of a financial adviser. But, no regulation, no qualifications, and no proof needed to become a MAM king. I wonder why Bill Gates hasn't entrusted some of his fortune to the Fx guys showing massive demo gains on their 6 month TE's? Or worse, the one's with no evidence at all!

It's been mentioned that commercial members should be forced to show a long running TE, verified from a live account.
I absolutely agree. However if that rule was enforced, my guess is the number of commercial members on this forum would be obliterated overnight. Probably taking most of their over zealous disciples with them. Not exactly in the forums interests, so it won't happen.

Without mentioning names, I share the sentiment of many here. There is shockingly little evidence that the vast majority of commercial members here who sell their wares trade real money on their sold systems, or have any consistent success beyond a few months.
Yet they are promising the world with 100% win rate etc.
This may not be a scam in the strict sense, but as Billbss said..the selling is a small part. The lure. Next time they have a wonder system...most likely you will buy that one too! After all, the cost is not excessive. By design of course.

The best part for them is, if you fail with their system, then it's your fault.
Sure, you can't teach everyone...but the general responses to people who disagree/question the seller is to ignore them, or have the minions attack. Is this the best way to encourage future sales?

As a seller..why concern yourself with the critics if the results speak for themselves?
I like what someone wrote earlier quoting Shakespeare "I think he doth protest too much!"
When I see the levels some members go to to protect their name, this quote always comes to mind.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #664
  • Dec 2, 2014 10:31pm Dec 2, 2014 10:31pm
Quoting buzzsaw
{quote} So you didn't do your own due diligence? It was stated there were no refunds so you risked money you could not afford to lose? I and many others have had no issues. Maybe it's time to look inward vice outward. All successful traders eventually learn, if they don't know it already, that they are responsible for their actions.
look, there is no hidden/big philosophy here...as I said, I had a chat with Eithan over skype before purchasing. It was a kind of mentioned due diligence,
where I ask for, what I consider is important, risk to reward ratio. I was answered 1:2 (risk 1 to get 2).
And in fact it is simply NOT true in reality. And that is ONLY an issue for me. He simply LIED to me to get another client.
That's how I see it.
Mind is the King
  • #665
  • Dec 2, 2014 10:34pm Dec 2, 2014 10:34pm
Quoting buzzsaw
{quote} Did you ask r/r or specifically ask reward/risk or risk/reward. I have seen it both ways.
as I said, I asked for risk to reward ratio, and the answer I received was: 'you risk 1 to get 2'.
I think it is obvious and no the other way around, i.e. you risk 2 to get 1, cause it does not make sense imho.
Mind is the King
  • #666
  • Dec 2, 2014 10:37pm Dec 2, 2014 10:37pm
Quoting MikiMax
{quote} look, there is no hidden/big philosophy here...as I said, I had a chat with Eithan over skype before purchasing. It was a kind of mentioned due diligence, where I ask for, what I consider is important, risk to reward ratio. I was answered 1:2 (risk 1 to get 2). And in fact it is simply NOT true in reality. And that is ONLY an issue for me. He simply LIED to me to get another client. That's how I see it.
I love capitalism.

It is up to the consumer to due his homework. Do you seriously think that a vendor is going to tell you the truth from his mouth? If you did not ask for audited statements before you bought the system, is that his fault, or yours?

You might not be from country where advertisers are legally allowed to lie like they are here in the states, and I do feel for you in that regard. But to say Eitan stole your money is a bit of a reach. Eitan pitched his product, you believed it without any kind of data to support it, and now you are upset.

I hope you learned something from that.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #667
  • Dec 2, 2014 10:51pm Dec 2, 2014 10:51pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I love capitalism. It is up to the consumer to due his homework. Do you seriously think that a vendor is going to tell you the truth from his mouth? If you did not ask for audited statements before you bought the system, is that his fault, or yours? You might not be from country where advertisers are legally allowed to lie like they are here in the states, and I do feel for you in that regard. But to say Eitan stole your money is a bit of a reach. Eitan pitched his product, you believed it without any kind of data to support it, and now...
I just asked for a simple thing which was risk to reward ratio.
I did NOT ask about the truth of the system as you said.
I did NOT ask for an audited statement, as I know it can be easily manipulated as most of the financial world does it all the time.
In my country they do it the same way as in yours.
Again, no big thing here, just a plain fact regarding risk/reward ratio.
I'm not a believer, that's way I asked for r/r and was lied.
I'm not upset or angry, I simply share my experience with anyone who wants to listen.
Eithan has his followers/believers as in church already.
Mind is the King
  • #668
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:10pm Dec 2, 2014 11:10pm
MikiMax, I think you are very wrong. I bought that system too after intensive chat with Eitan. He is a good follow, beware how you destroy someone's reputation. You paid for a product and you were giving a product, and you call someone a scam. i really know you may be hurt by the RR, he told me the same thing he told you, but i understand he said risk 2 to get 1. may be a misunderstanding you get from him. but you should have called him a lair only he is no scam freind. By the way the training is still on going and we are enjoying it. we are about 63 that bought the system and only you is calling him a scam. that is unfair mate. be patient with Eitan. Be patient.
  • #669
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:29pm Dec 2, 2014 11:29pm
Quoting borgu
MikiMax, I think you are very wrong. I bought that system too after intensive chat with Eitan. He is a good follow, beware how you destroy someone's reputation. You paid for a product and you were giving a product, and you call someone a scam. i really know you may be hurt by the RR, he told me the same thing he told you, but i understand he said risk 2 to get 1. may be a misunderstanding you get from him. but you should have called him a lair only he is no scam freind. By the way the training is still on going and we are enjoying it. we are about...
Borgu, I did not want to make it public at first.
I asked Eitan about it and he simply ignored me, banned me from the skype group, his contacts, and the thread.
That was his first actions when I raised the r/r issue. So it was his choice.
Secondly, I have a proof of our chat where he clearly said: 'risk 1 to get 2'.
If you want to risk 2 and get 1 it is your choice.
I'm sharing my personal experience only.
Mind is the King
  • #670
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:34pm Dec 2, 2014 11:34pm
Quoting MikiMax
{quote} Borgu, I did not want to make it public at first. I asked Eitan about it and he simply ignored me, banned me from the skype group, his contacts, and the thread. That was his first actions when I raised the r/r issue. So it was his choice. Secondly, I have a proof of our chat where he clearly said: 'risk 1 to get 2'. If you want to risk 2 and get 1 it is your choice. I'm sharing my personal experience only.
What was you thought process when you decided to pay him for the system. ?
What lesson did you learn from this experience. ?
  • #671
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:50pm Dec 2, 2014 11:50pm
Quoting ronaleo10
{quote} What was you thought process when you decided to pay him for the system. ? What lesson did you learn from this experience. ?
I asked simple questions:
me: tell me about your system
Eithan: basicly its for the one hr tf
[2014-11-25 14:11:15] Eitan zarfati: from 2 to 6 trades per day
[2014-11-25 14:11:25] Eitan zarfati: during the uk session
me: which pairs?any?
[2014-11-25 14:12:26] MikeFx: risk/reward
[2014-11-25 14:13:05] MikeFx: how long have you been using it? your performance?
Eithan: i manage big acc with it
forrward test since 3 yrs
8 recomended pairs on my training
me: risk to reward ratio?
Eithan: [2014-11-25 14:16:02] Eitan zarfati: risk one for two
So it was just short chat.
Experience?
Seems like selling only matters....Do not ask questions...Blindly follow...Believe..
Mind is the King
  • #672
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:50pm Dec 2, 2014 11:50pm
i actually noticed that one us is missing in the skype group. if you are banned and dismissed because of your outspokenness, i can never be in support of it. you must be given your freedom of speech, after all you paid for the service and the service is still on going. THAT IS WRONG.

What was you thought process when you decided to pay him for the system. ?
What lesson did you learn from this experience. ?
I LOVE THE SYSTEM. SIMPLE
  • #673
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:53pm Dec 2, 2014 11:53pm
Quoting MikiMax
{quote} Borgu, I did not want to make it public at first. I asked Eitan about it and he simply ignored me, banned me from the skype group, his contacts, and the thread. That was his first actions when I raised the r/r issue. So it was his choice. Secondly, I have a proof of our chat where he clearly said: 'risk 1 to get 2'. If you want to risk 2 and get 1 it is your choice. I'm sharing my personal experience only.
you know what you lost?,you lost the one that can help you,i gave you simple method for RR i train you 2hrs!!!live,i gave you system,i added you to the group,

i told you i will be there for you as all my students and what you did?you split on the one that want to provide you endless help support and assist you ,

you prefered to come to strangers and cry over?..i gave you family on my group they all buyers as you and all happy,i gave you the option to do more and more

trainings,my analysys ,

you know this payment you pay not cover 0.000001% from what you supose to get,but again your loose,i belive in free choice you made the choice no one push you

no one lie to you if you dont know how to trade with the sys (just yesterday you made your training and you want to be 7 yrs pro)you jumped into conclussion

and again made huge mistake if i have lets say 70 clients and only one of them (you) claim that i scamer so..i think lets the Democracy take place and think resonable

i realy didnt needed your money ,its not the issue i told from first that after 100copies i will close the reg so money not an issue for me , also i provided above than 10

systems free with my other threads and they all ppl are very happy for that , i help ppl here on FF since 2011 b4 i was comerr member , i am not run away and

i am stand after my word and 70 buyers/students can tell you that , again YOU MADE HUGE MISTAKE BY CALLING ME THIFT AND LIER!,i am very far from that

and your behvour unfortenally reflect the ugly side of Human Nature

anyway GL with that below,,(i know its demo but reflect your behavour and "great skills" on fx market..)
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when GOD brings you a challenge he also gives you the power to deal with it
  • #674
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:55pm Dec 2, 2014 11:55pm
Quoting borgu
i actually noticed that one us is missing in the skype group. if you are banned and dismissed because of your outspokenness, i can never be in support of it. you must be given your freedom of speech, after all you paid for the service and the service is still on going. THAT IS WRONG. What was you thought process when you decided to pay him for the system. ? What lesson did you learn from this experience. ? I LOVE THE SYSTEM. SIMPLE
Borgu, pls look above I answered it to Ronaleo...
let me know if you found it useful
Mind is the King
  • #675
  • Dec 2, 2014 11:55pm Dec 2, 2014 11:55pm
Quoting borgu
i actually noticed that one us is missing in the skype group. if you are banned and dismissed because of your outspokenness, i can never be in support of it. you must be given your freedom of speech, after all you paid for the service and the service is still on going. THAT IS WRONG. What was you thought process when you decided to pay him for the system. ? What lesson did you learn from this experience. ? I LOVE THE SYSTEM. SIMPLE
he called me lier and thift on my home !, i am sorry not except this kind of behvour should i give him place at my home???

what is your thought on that?what would you do insteed of me?

very courious my friend..
when GOD brings you a challenge he also gives you the power to deal with it
  • #676
  • Dec 3, 2014 12:07am Dec 3, 2014 12:07am
Quoting eitan1010
{quote} he called me lier and thift on my home !, i am sorry not except this kind of behvour should i give him place at my home??? what is your thought on that?what would you do insteed of me? very courious my friend..
a lie's definition:
noun
1.a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentionaluntruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.
2.something intended or serving to convey a false impression;imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
4.the charge or accusation of telling a lie:
He flung the lie back at his accusers.
verb (used without object), lied, lying.
5.to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
Synonyms: prevaricate, fib.
6.
to express what is false; convey a false impression.
verb (used with object), lied, lying.
7.to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively):
to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out ofdifficulties."

You LIED about risk/reward. And this a fact.
Mind is the King
  • #677
  • Dec 3, 2014 12:08am Dec 3, 2014 12:08am
Prof i am interceding on his behalf, he is one of us and you are a father, just act like a father you are and give him a chance, i dont think anyone will hate this system. it is amazing. i only feel it is lack of understanding and it can be easily sorted out. Eitan is a nice man, and i hope MikiMax will realize this. Just my opinoin. PATIENCE has always been his watchword.
  • #678
  • Dec 3, 2014 12:08am Dec 3, 2014 12:08am
I am in this system for last couple of days. The system is fantastic. below is my experience so far

Results: 2 trades both hit the TP
Value for money: Excellent, this type of system cost way more in commercial market
Training: The support from Eitan is fantastic and the 2 hours training helped to clarify all questions..

Highly recommend even for newbie's
  • #679
  • Dec 3, 2014 12:15am Dec 3, 2014 12:15am
Quoting eitan1010
{quote} he called me lier and thift on my home !, i am sorry not except this kind of behvour should i give him place at my home??? what is your thought on that?what would you do insteed of me? very courious my friend..

Don't you think ideal way would be ...clarifying what are the questions in his mind. By chatting with you he formed certain ideas about your system ..which he found contradicting after going further about it. For you being a good teacher , you should clear his doubts and provide him solution. Cutting him off , clearly goes against your image in my humble opinion.
After all he paid you.
  • #680
  • Dec 3, 2014 12:17am Dec 3, 2014 12:17am
Quoting borgu
Prof i am interceding on his behalf, he is one of us and you are a father, just act like a father you are and give him a chance, i dont think anyone will hate this system. it is amazing. i only feel it is lack of understanding and it can be easily sorted out. Eitan is a nice man, and i hope MikiMax will realize this. Just my opinoin. PATIENCE has always been his watchword.
i am father i have kids and if there is problem or issue inside the family we solve it on our home place and not out from the family circle but thats how i look on that .

again he showed me as scamer and put me on this thread as hall of scamers! shame on him very shame on him.

ok i done and thanks.
when GOD brings you a challenge he also gives you the power to deal with it
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