Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade | Page 539 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

Learning to trade with harmonics 11 replies

Time for Change - Pivots & Harmonics to freedom 67 replies

180 reasons to trade Harmonics and Patterns 13 replies

Group Trading based on Elliott wave and Harmonics 0 replies

Attachments: Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade
Exit Attachments

Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #10,761
  • Nov 12, 2014 11:16am Nov 12, 2014 11:16am
Hello all harmonic traders. Just recently started reading your great thread here and Carney's book. I've been trading live for the past few months, but I don't like being dependent on MAs, despite my consistent profits. I want to make the next step and become a real technical PA trader.

So anyway whilst reading the first 15 or so pages of this thread today, the price of AUD/JPY was at point B and I went "huh" and put my fibs on, only to see something awful similar to one of Mr. Pip's tutorial charts (on pg. 9 I think). So I watched the price touch 0.886 and pullback rapidly. I guess you could call that a textbook Gartley pattern, correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't go long of course since I don't trade harmonics (yet), but eventually the price reached it's first target at 1.13 and is going furher at this moment. Suddenly I got this almost euphoric feeling as if I had reinvented hot water LOL, it really felt great to see harmonics in action.

Ok wanted to hear your individual thoughts on the entry around point C. I know you've probably mentioned different entry rules at PRZ since pg.15 - and I'll get there - I just want to hear your opinions in this particular case since it's fresh. Rules on M15, lower M5, maybe even a buy limit at 0.886, etc...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Chart_AUD_JPY_15 Mins_snapshot.png Size: 26 KB
  • #10,762
  • Nov 12, 2014 11:18am Nov 12, 2014 11:18am
Quoting YoungCroc
{quote} It's all good, sir. I appreciate all the work you're putting on in order to educate us. Mr. Pip, what exactly is this price rotation? Is it the same as price reversal? Are you referring to the exact moment of watching price action and pinpointing if it turns the other way? If it is, then I know that these rotations happen in S/D areas, structure, and pattern PRZ's and I enter rotations through double-tops/bottoms and bar-to-bar analysis from your PA video (still having difficulty with this, I will try posting an example once I have the...
Yes it's a big part and critically important to getting great timing on entrances.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,763
  • Nov 12, 2014 11:31am Nov 12, 2014 11:31am
Quoting Lane
Hello all harmonic traders. Just recently started reading your great thread here and Carney's book. I've been trading live for the past few months, but I don't like being dependent on MAs, despite my consistent profits. I want to make the next step and become a real technical PA trader. So anyway whilst reading the first 15 or so pages of this thread today, the price of AUD/JPY was at point B and I went "huh" and put my fibs on, only to see something awful similar to one of Mr. Pip's tutorial charts (on pg. 9 I think). So I watched the price touch...
I have extensively tested these patterns and have altered the original versions of the patterns slightly so that I may be able to qualify them faster and better. This has increased their profitability slightly but has made my life easier. Having said that I seldom trade them any more.

I remember sitting around waiting for patterns to complete and realize there was much, much more to harmonics then patterns and that waiting around for them to complete or not was an inefficient use of my time. I also realized that in an efficient market I too had to be more efficient and find more opportunities.

I trade harmonics but not the way most traders view harmonics.

Catch up and keep posting!
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,764
  • Nov 12, 2014 11:38am Nov 12, 2014 11:38am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} Wow brave entrance momentum is completely against you. That type of entry calls for aggressive trade management.
I did manage it very aggressive. Was ready to exit if price broke the 78,6%.
Not trading at the moment but seeing an possible long GBPAUD. Chart is attached below.
Price is showing weakness at structure and round number. there is also an completion of an AB=CD.
Ofcourse any comments are appreciated
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: $GBPAUD (233 Tick) 12-11-2014.jpg Size: 160 KB
  • #10,765
  • Nov 12, 2014 11:56am Nov 12, 2014 11:56am
Quoting jpnavigate
{quote} My take on the market I liken the market to a great real-life lesson of Economics 101. It is beautiful and, sometimes, frustrating to watch the forces of supply and demand in constant action. Thus, I do not believe the market is random. The market reflects the prevailing sentiment of its customers. If buyers outnumber sellers, price will respond by going up. If sellers outnumber buyers, price will go down. It's that simple. Can a trader have insight? The short answer is: yes. I'm not entirely sure why the movements in the market follow 1-to-1...
I hear this a lot, about "buyers outnumbering sellers" with regard to supply and demand and price movement. I don't think that it's about the number of buyers and sellers, but about the amount of units being bought or sold. In actuality, the majority tends to be wrong. The minority who control price movement is made up of the large institutions. Luckily Harmonics are a great tool for getting in tune with price direction and identifying entry areas around structure. I do not mean to be picky at all, and am also a big fan of the methods taught on this thread, but when I hear people talking about Supply and Demand, as if we were at the local bakery or hardware store, it reminds me that in those smaller more local markets, there is very little if any manipulation that occurs (just the price of wheat affecting the baker I suppose) which is why the term Order Flow (that we can see at structure) is probably better suited.

Again, the methods Mr Pip teachers are excellent, but understanding why they work and constantly expanding your understanding (or me expanding mine for that matter) puts us in a more powerful position. We are playing in a casino that has been set up for the few who are strong to take the money of the majority who is weak. We are the card counters at the table. If everyone counted them, and was able to beat the casino, the game would end and or the casino would close.
  • #10,766
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:33pm Nov 12, 2014 12:33pm
Quoting DeepakJ
{quote} I did manage it very aggressive. Was ready to exit if price broke the 78,6%. Not trading at the moment but seeing an possible long GBPAUD. Chart is attached below. Price is showing weakness at structure and round number. there is also an completion of an AB=CD. Ofcourse any comments are appreciated {image}
The longer price hangs around the PRZ the more the possibility of it not holding. Bulls should have gotten their act together already.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,767
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:36pm Nov 12, 2014 12:36pm
Quoting Marillionpip
{quote} I hear this a lot, about "buyers outnumbering sellers" with regard to supply and demand and price movement. I don't think that it's about the number of buyers and sellers, but about the amount of units being bought or sold. In actuality, the majority tends to be wrong. The minority who control price movement is made up of the large institutions. Luckily Harmonics are a great tool for getting in tune with price direction and identifying entry areas around structure. I do not mean to be picky at all, and am also a big fan of the methods taught...

If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,768
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:46pm Nov 12, 2014 12:46pm
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} The longer price hangs around the PRZ the more the possibility of it not holding. Bulls should have gotten their act together already.
Thank you for the input Mr. Pip,

will remember that!
  • #10,769
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:47pm Nov 12, 2014 12:47pm
Quoting Marillionpip
{quote} I hear this a lot, about "buyers outnumbering sellers" with regard to supply and demand and price movement. I don't think that it's about the number of buyers and sellers, but about the amount of units being bought or sold. In actuality, the majority tends to be wrong. The minority who control price movement is made up of the large institutions. Luckily Harmonics are a great tool for getting in tune with price direction and identifying entry areas around structure. I do not mean to be picky at all, and am also a big fan of the methods taught...
Excellent post.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #10,770
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:53pm Nov 12, 2014 12:53pm
Harmonics Fact or Fiction???? Train your eyes and learn your markets rhythm.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: $EURUSD (233 Tick) 11_12_2014.jpg Size: 115 KB
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,771
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:58pm Nov 12, 2014 12:58pm
Quoting Marillionpip
{quote} I hear this a lot, about "buyers outnumbering sellers" with regard to supply and demand and price movement. I don't think that it's about the number of buyers and sellers, but about the amount of units being bought or sold. In actuality, the majority tends to be wrong. The minority who control price movement is made up of the large institutions. Luckily Harmonics are a great tool for getting in tune with price direction and identifying entry areas around structure. I do not mean to be picky at all, and am also a big fan of the methods taught...
Semantics. We're still talking econ 101. If there are more buyers buying "units" than there are sellers selling "units", price will go up and vice versa. What do you mean about price manipulation?
  • #10,772
  • Nov 12, 2014 12:59pm Nov 12, 2014 12:59pm
Quoting Mr. Pip
Harmonics Fact or Fiction???? Train your eyes and learn your markets rhythm. {image}
A thing of beauty...
  • #10,773
  • Nov 12, 2014 1:07pm Nov 12, 2014 1:07pm
At the end of the day I don't care who or how many are buying and selling I let the price tell me and harmonics guide me. I trade with expectations and keep a realistic profit goal in tune with projections and order flow.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,774
  • Nov 12, 2014 1:09pm Nov 12, 2014 1:09pm
Quoting Mr. Pip
At the end of the day I don't care who or how many are buying and selling I let the price tell me and harmonics guide me. I trade with expectations and keep a realistic profit goal in tune with projections and order flow.
Nailed it.
  • #10,775
  • Nov 12, 2014 1:48pm Nov 12, 2014 1:48pm
Another example of order flow, harmonics and expectations!!!!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: $EURJPY (233 Tick) 11_12_2014.jpg Size: 100 KB
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,776
  • Nov 12, 2014 2:35pm Nov 12, 2014 2:35pm
Quoting jpnavigate
{quote} Semantics. We're still talking econ 101. If there are more buyers buying "units" than there are sellers selling "units", price will go up and vice versa. What do you mean about price manipulation?
I am not trying to argue or diminish your opinion in any way, and I share your appreciation of Fibs. I also think our discussion is a healthy thing in perhaps I will learn that something I voice is incorrect. There is a program that occurs every day on every time frame (practically). Supply and Demand is not the same as order flow. Find a chart (am rushing to get my kid to the orthodontist), and find two points that price ran up to quickly (or down to, and then departed from with a big long candle(s) on one, and then find one where price made a similar movement directionally but took more time or had more candles etc.

Supply and demand on a currency chart is not the beauty of S//D that we all learned about in eco 101. Major price movements are engineered by the large institutions. It's not about more buyers and sellers at certain points, but about where orders will be paired up by Deutsche, UBS, Morgan, etc, in an attempt to fool most of the public so they can take our money. There are 10-20 institutions that move price and have a program to take the money of 100K (or M) to 200K small annd medium traders. I'm not talking about all that VSA stuff, I'm not into that. I look for the Goldman Sachs candle because the power behind it is much stronger then the power behind 20 Hedge Funds. But I need rules to trade well and stay focused, so I use Harmonics as a tool. There is a difference between S/D and Order Flow, and it does help one to trade to understand that.

Mr Pip, I did not mean to get things off point and Know you run a tight ship. I'll let it go and not continue this on your thread.
  • #10,777
  • Nov 12, 2014 3:19pm Nov 12, 2014 3:19pm
Quoting Marillionpip
{quote} I am not trying to argue or diminish your opinion in any way, and I share your appreciation of Fibs. I also think our discussion is a healthy thing in perhaps I will learn that something I voice is incorrect. There is a program that occurs every day on every time frame (practically). Supply and Demand is not the same as order flow. Find a chart (am rushing to get my kid to the orthodontist), and find two points that price ran up to quickly (or down to, and then departed from with a big long candle(s) on one, and then find one where price...
No worries, Marillionpip. I appreciate your insight. And, I think you make some interesting points. Apologies if it sounded like I was coming at you. I oversimplified the dynamics of the market.
  • #10,778
  • Nov 12, 2014 4:40pm Nov 12, 2014 4:40pm
Quoting Marillionpip
{quote} I am not trying to argue or diminish your opinion in any way, and I share your appreciation of Fibs. I also think our discussion is a healthy thing in perhaps I will learn that something I voice is incorrect. There is a program that occurs every day on every time frame (practically). Supply and Demand is not the same as order flow. Find a chart (am rushing to get my kid to the orthodontist), and find two points that price ran up to quickly (or down to, and then departed from with a big long candle(s) on one, and then find one where price...
All is good, I wouldn't mind you posting a chart example of what you are talking about.
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #10,779
  • Nov 12, 2014 5:03pm Nov 12, 2014 5:03pm
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} I have extensively tested these patterns and have altered the original versions of the patterns slightly so that I may be able to qualify them faster and better. This has increased their profitability slightly but has made my life easier. Having said that I seldom trade them any more. I remember sitting around waiting for patterns to complete and realize there was much, much more to harmonics then patterns and that waiting around for them to complete or not was an inefficient use of my time. I also realized that in an efficient market I...
I agree with you Mr. Pip and here is what I think you mean (correct me if I am wrong)...

I too found out that waiting for specific harmonic patterns to form like Butterfly's, Bats, Crabs, Cyphers and Gartley's is "inefficient" and time consuming like what you say. Instead I realized that it is much better and easier to simply follow the grand ABCD or AB=CD Fibonacci Sequence and just learn to master that with it's swing highs/swing lows and rotations, reversal points, etc.

In my humble opinion the ABCD pattern/sequence once fully understood is the elusive Holy Grail which everyone seeks. But I choose to call it the "Golden Cup"...ha, ha, ha, ha!



It is now My Holy Grail {my Golden Cup} and may not work for everyone until they first fully grasp it's underlying power and potential.

To be continued...

It's time we stop entertaining ourselves and start realizing ourselves!
  • #10,780
  • Nov 12, 2014 5:45pm Nov 12, 2014 5:45pm
Quoting moneyflow21
{quote} I agree with you Mr. Pip and here is what I think you mean (correct me if I am wrong)... I too found out that waiting for specific harmonic patterns to form like Butterfly's, Bats, Crabs, Cyphers and Gartley's is "inefficient" and time consuming like what you say. Instead I realized that it is much better and easier to simply follow the grand ABCD or AB=CD Fibonacci Sequence and just learn to master that with it's swing highs/swing lows and rotations, reversal points, etc. In my humble opinion the ABCD pattern/sequence once fully understood...
OH Keep FLOWING I think you are on to something very powerful!!!!
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
7 traders viewing now